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how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??


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Old 08-31-2004, 07:18 PM   #1
boaz
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Question how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

I was wondering the strength levels of the Darvocet group of pain meds..I am used to/familiar with the 5's 7.5's and 10's of say Lortabs and Percocets....where does that Darvocet 100 fit in there since it's a higher number, but I've heard not much more than asprin??

Thanks for any help....

 
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:29 AM   #2
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Hey Boaz, Long time no see, Darvecet is derived from Darvon compound and has an additional 650 mgs of tylenol in it.

Darvon is in the same calss of synthetic opiates as methadone and levorphanol, It's roughly 1/100 the strength of methadone, so 100 mgs of DarvecetN would be equal to about 1 mg of methadone. 1 mg of meth would be comperable to 3-5 mgs of hydrocodone, but doesn't have the opiate receptor binding ability that the class of keto opioids that hydrocodone or oxycodone have.

It basically has minimal opiate qualities and is compared to the anelgesic strength of a tylenol 3 or a couple Ibuphrofen. Because it's in the same class as methadone it can make stepping down from opioids such as hydrocodone easier, It als has some NMDA blocking abilty that methadone has so that may be part of why it's a good step down med.

You also need to watch your tylenol intake with each tablet containing 650 mgs of apap per tablet. Taking more than one at time exceeds the 1000mgs per dose and can easily exceed the 4000 mgs per day max tylenol consumption which can damage your liver.

It's certainly much weaker than 10mgs of hydro and wouldn't have the same street apeal because it doesn't cause the euphoria that most opioids that bind to the Mu receptor cause.The euphoria that any opiates cause is usually the first thing that deminishes as you become acommadated to each opiate, you do still recieve the anelgesic properties of the meds although it may not feel like Hydrocodone when you first started taking it.

Good luck, Did your doc mention anything about discontinuing opiates as this is usually the last step after surgery once healing has accured or the doc deems you no longer need the pain relief from the stronger med.
Take care, Dave

Last edited by Shoreline; 09-01-2004 at 08:32 AM.

 
Old 09-01-2004, 05:21 PM   #3
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Hi Shore/Dave,

Well my mom was prescribed the darvs, she hates them, and I heard their pretty weak...she's just real sensitive to narcotics....maybe kinda hypochondriacish?? She's got rheumatiod arth.
Hubby had his second back surgery in April...a 2 and a half level fusion..he hasn't gotten much relief..I think it was just basically to keep him from getting worse..but it still seems to be happening. He still can't walk far at all, tires easily..but he has many other bad health problems...and the meds may be making him tired...I am scared for him...everytime we turn around workers comp is all over us on something...didn't fill out some form to suit them....just knit picking stuff. His leg still goes numb from his hip down..and now (pardon..) his scrotum is numb on that side as well. He has completely lost his sexual ability..after that last surgery it was gone completely....he's done the viagra. cialis route....no avail...his hormone testosterone is very low..tried shots along with pills...it helped his feeling good, and stamna alittle, but not his sex ability....now we're to the penile injections...well we all know either one of 2 causes are doing that..nerves..or blood flow..I asked lawyer...he said if doc can prove it's nerve related-thus from his back...then they'll have to pay....that darn injury has taken his whole being away....it's ruined him, what we used to have and be is gone...but I know others are in the same sad boat...I really hate it. I am not even sure he'll be able to "fully" enjoy the sex after having the shots...I'm lucky he's willing to do it for me. Have you heard anything about sleep apneas since your very knowledgable? He went to sleep lab...I just knew he'd changed his breathing patterns...it's scary at times...anyway they found what's called central apnea, where your brain just doesn't tell you to breath right...as opposed to obstructive apnea...he'll probably get a machine. I mentioned it this week to his GP who's his pain doc now, and he said his pain meds..methadone 10mgs 3 times a day can cause it...have you heard of that? I say it may be his brain aneurysm he had last year also and almost died from....cause also for some reason his brain has quit telling his testes to produce testosterone also it seems.....I live in such fear..I begged for more time last year as he lay on the floor.....I wonder when it's up.... he scared me telling me he dreamed he had a stroke and died.....I've has issues with forboding dreams..I did have them for my brother and father before they died....maybe a co-inky-dink?
just worrysome....
oh yeah you mentioned that NMDA recptor..w/c is giving me grief cause his pain doc prescribed Dexalone for that to help slow opiate tolerance and w/c wrote nasty letter saying they didn't "see where they should pay for med for his "nagging cough"" arseholes they are!!
p.s. no he'll be on pain meds the rest of his life...he hurts so bad...I've seen his leg turn blue from the numbness and pain..(before the surgery) it like I said just hopefully stopped the worsening of the condition of nerve compression...


thanks for the info friend

Last edited by boaz; 09-01-2004 at 05:26 PM.

 
Old 09-01-2004, 11:05 PM   #4
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

I was prescribed Darvocet for years before I went into PM, and I also used lortab for a short time.

Darvocet is at the far left on the strength chart, as weak as a narcotic can be. It is weaker than Lortab, no question about it.

Just because a number follows a name of a med doesn't mean that you can compare the meds based on the #. In other words, Darvocet 100 is NOT stronger than Lortab 10. You cannot compare the 100 and the 10 as they measure 2 different things.

BTW, currently I am on MS CONTIN 60mg 3X and MSIR 30mg up to 3X for BT

 
Old 09-02-2004, 10:46 AM   #5
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Hey Boaz, Sorry to hear about all the problems, As far as the numbness, I awoke from my last 11 hour surgery numb from the top of the thigh to my knees, I was told this was from positioning during the long op, It was better than burning leg pain and din't effect my groin area so I ddin't pursue litigation.

Pressure on the nerves in the legs on a table that's bent up in the middle to open up the vertabral gaps can cause postioning nerve damage. If the nerve damage is not from an impingment the cause is likely positioning during surgery. People have gone blind from the anesthesiolohist that doesn't frequently reposition the head during long surgery, the presssure above the eyes on the optic nerve does unrepearable damage.

Comp is a B@#$, sorry ladies, I've been in the sytem and after the first surgery and the PM boot camps where everyone is cured it seemed like just getting out of the system and settling would make life easier, I had my wifes insurance incase I needed it. In hind sight, after loosng medical beni,s, waiting for medicare and disability, comp got off very cheaply. MY last year with prescription beni's which was really 10 months, they paid over 21k for Kadian, neurontin,Roxicodone etc. methadone does work well for pain and nerve pain due to it's NMDA blocking abilty, Dextro.. "Dexalone" is also a NMDA blocker. That makes sense.

The biggest thing, I noticed about meth was it turned off my labido like a light switch and my T levels dropped to that of a pre pub child.LOL It's not funny, So I went the endocrinologist route, we used Androgel succesfully, but wehen I switched from Meth to Morphine by T levels skyrocketed from the switch alone and I DC the Androgel "Tgel"

Your husbands dose is rather low but meth has some serrious side effects such as loss of Labido, lathargy, tiredness, It removes alot of your former personality, there is a medical term for this I can't think of.

However losing the NMDA blocking ability from meth and switching to something like Kadina or MSC you would likely need to supplement the NMDA blocking abilty with a med like DEXalone, or the newest and better NMDA blocker is a parkinsons med called nemanda, ask your doc about this. Several meds are in clinical trials with dex being added to0 gives, it meths ability to block the NMDA receptor. Comp may go for Nemanda, It's parkinsons effect is on dopamine which has an effect on pain, sleep, possibly the apnea and you get the benefit of blocking the NMDA receptor.

Absolutely don't take things as this is as good as it will get.

You may very well have a case against the surgeon in two ways, First he may have damaged the nerves to his legs, were they that bad prior to surgery, If he doesn't want to admit damage and can show the nerves are not impinged than the other answer is positioning which falls on the anesthesiologist. I would definitely look into both aspects of a MP case although they are long and hard fought, you going to need something to supplement income for continued care in the future.

If it were me, knowing what I know about meth and to attempt to improve the sexual disfunction and sleep apnea, I would get off the meth, try Morphine, It's more sedating initially but my head was much clearer after that wears off, my personality came back. The term for lack of personality I was thinking of is called somnalence (sp?) IT's basically like having no highs or lows, no peersonality and nothing brings joy or happiness. Given the pain and other problems it's part of the teritory but when a drug is known to cause these problems, It's time for a change to a new LA med. Oxycontin is actually a prodrug, that gives people energy, it's only problemn is tolerance but the NMDA blockers could solve this.

If he hasn't tried these other meds, you just have to keep plugging away, one new med at a time, If you start more than one med at a time it's really hard to gage or atribute any negative side effects, so you don't change everything at once, With one med at a time you may be able to resolve the problems. You also have to rule out pituitary damage or tumors, Most are benign, but do some damage which effects T levels, dopamine and many other endocrine systems.

Gotta fight for him hun even if he's not up for it. After 3 months down from a fusion, loosing muscle strength and atrophy is normal. The best therapy is aqua therapy to start rebuilding strength without the crushing pain of being upright. It's also too soon to tell if the fusion was a success regardless of what the surgeon says, all my fusions were deemed a success untill the hardware snapped and they had to flake the donor bone out like dried fish. Xrays do not tell you if donar bone is alive or dead and the hardware shows stabilty as longt as it's intact during flexion and extension Xrays used to gage fusion success., No movement under Xrays and all is good acording to surgeons, but the hardware prevents movement, untill it snaps all looks good.

There is no test to determine whether donor bone is alive and thriving or just siting there.

I would be happy to research anything you need to know. My advioce is from my own experience with these meds and my own labido problems, my own use of androgel and meth and switching to morphine. The main thing is he does have options, If comp won't make them available, Use other insurance if possivble, Get the SSD process started so he at least has medicare in addition to comp and If he hasn't tried other meds than meth, get him off the meth.

Increasing the dose for pain relief will likely just increase the apnea and lost labido. The numb scrotum doesn't mean penile disfunction is enevatable, different nerve systems for each. So don't give up there and Look into changing meds and adjusting meds before anthying as invasive as penile implants, faiulure would be devestating and unless they can prove it's a nerve damage problem or blood flow, hold off on surgery. Without the labido and normal T levels, meds like Viagra won't work, If there is no desire due to no Testosterone, Viagra won't help. He may think he mentally wants it, but withoutthe T levels, It's just not going to happen.

Feel free to ask anything, I'm beyond the degredation of surgery and caths and Tlevels and all the other mess.

Right now I'm still trying to get my pump tweaked corectly and am now trying to research Vertobrolasty and KYphoplasty for my wife whoo just found out she has 3 more compression fractures of her Tspine from Ostoe perosis. What a nightmare, she's about at the end of her rope and may not be able to work any longer either.

But I don't mnd helping when and where I can.
Take care, Dave

 
Old 09-03-2004, 07:47 AM   #6
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Hi Shore ?Dave,

Thanks so much for your long reply...I can't remember exactly when it pretty much quit completely..(sexual function) but it may have to do with that Meth....I printed out your reply and will take it to docs next time...I see on our copy of office visit papers when we were getting reffered for sleep lab he did put solemnance (sp?) I just don't know what to blame on the aneurysm or back?? It's such a mess...I am fighting for him believe me..I get/got so mad over that last letter I'd probably have a heart attack...I hope not...I don't have any insurance! Since we "won" our case and w/c is SUPPOSED to pay...but I still have to fill out that form and jump thru their hoops and do it just so so...they always have a stall tactic...drives me mad. I have noticed a change in him...I have to ask is the meds your now on expensive? We have to pay for it up front and jump the hoops to get reimbursed....when he came home from surgery he was prescribed Oxycontin...that cost 400 dollars alone..all the meds added up to 600 dollars..how do they expect someone to live paying out and waiting months and months til they take a notion to pay you back...
I wouldn't sue the surgeon if it was his fault....but I doubt it...he really didn't want to have that surgery and may have stalled it too long..then when we decided to they hadn't paid the surgeon from his last surgery 2 years prior..he wrote them a 9 page letter reaming them out and went ahead with his surgery...in other words this doctor has really stood up for us..fought for us and helped us alot. Hubby was having the numbness and weakness before the surgery, the few days after it it was gone and he walked from one end of that hall to the other...he was so optismistic....and then it shortly returned...before surgery I've seen his leg turn blue...he sits and rubs it so much now he makes sores on it...
He wasn't numb initally after surgery...just before it and couldn't walk even to the mail box with out stopping...it got better for a couple weeks if that long after..and then right back to it. What for of morphine would you reccommend or what you use? And may I ask your age as in comparison to my hubby's..he's 50 just turned that this year.
Funny even you know about Dexalone and NMDA recptors..and I got some crappy letter from comp and they said "we don't see why we should pay for his nagging cough"...talk about going off on that one....I really lost it....we've been in this mess almost 5 years...I'm sick of them...he has cobra right now....we have SS already going..they offset for w/c..aint that sh****! And since they all know about it's a workers comp case I couldn't slip it in on his private ins?? Have a mess on my hands with that I fear....I asked for my money back on co-pays and such and they said since "they've reimbursed the hospitals" I'd have to get it from them....well how do I know they've paid the hospital..this stuff is 2 -3 years old???
So now if he's on meth then from what your saying he wouldn't even need the Dexalone?? But would if put on morphine? What kind and strength do you reccommend? He still doesn't get complete pain relief from the meth....and I have to keep in mind the one kidney...

Thank you so much Dave...I'll keep in touch...sorry about your wife...bad enough one is suffering...life's just a you know what sometimes...

p.s. Dave I just went and asked him...he said that the Oxy made him sick...he's had some GI problems..gets sick with heartburn some on certain meds...like I said that Oxy at 10mgs 4 x a day was very high...I need something that is reasonable...or their gonna have to get on the ball and reimburse quicker...is what you take very high cost wise?...Thanks for your help...we go back to neurosurgeon soon..will ask him about all this....

Last edited by boaz; 09-03-2004 at 08:03 AM.

 
Old 09-04-2004, 05:46 AM   #7
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Just a quick note here: Be very very cxareful taking darvocets and lortabs. Make sure you eat something on it or you will get ulcers!!!!!! I took lortabs for years for my fibromyalgia and they tore my stomache apart. I couldn't eat much at the time had dislocated my jaw and sprained it. So it really tore me up. You may thing about some zantac while on them too. I can't take pain meds too often now i am on the ptch and on break through morphine pills but i have to be very very careful with them. I only take them when in severe pain. Just be careful on them.

 
Old 09-04-2004, 06:08 AM   #8
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Quote:
Originally Posted by boaz
Hi Shore/Dave,

Well my mom was prescribed the darvs, she hates them, and I heard their pretty weak...she's just real sensitive to narcotics....maybe kinda hypochondriacish?? She's got rheumatiod arth.
Hubby had his second back surgery in April...a 2 and a half level fusion..he hasn't gotten much relief..I think it was just basically to keep him from getting worse..but it still seems to be happening. He still can't walk far at all, tires easily..but he has many other bad health problems...and the meds may be making him tired...I am scared for him...everytime we turn around workers comp is all over us on something...didn't fill out some form to suit them....just knit picking stuff. His leg still goes numb from his hip down..and now (pardon..) his scrotum is numb on that side as well. He has completely lost his sexual ability..after that last surgery it was gone completely....he's done the viagra. cialis route....no avail...his hormone testosterone is very low..tried shots along with pills...it helped his feeling good, and stamna alittle, but not his sex ability....now we're to the penile injections...well we all know either one of 2 causes are doing that..nerves..or blood flow..I asked lawyer...he said if doc can prove it's nerve related-thus from his back...then they'll have to pay....that darn injury has taken his whole being away....it's ruined him, what we used to have and be is gone...but I know others are in the same sad boat...I really hate it. I am not even sure he'll be able to "fully" enjoy the sex after having the shots...I'm lucky he's willing to do it for me. Have you heard anything about sleep apneas since your very knowledgable? He went to sleep lab...I just knew he'd changed his breathing patterns...it's scary at times...anyway they found what's called central apnea, where your brain just doesn't tell you to breath right...as opposed to obstructive apnea...he'll probably get a machine. I mentioned it this week to his GP who's his pain doc now, and he said his pain meds..methadone 10mgs 3 times a day can cause it...have you heard of that? I say it may be his brain aneurysm he had last year also and almost died from....cause also for some reason his brain has quit telling his testes to produce testosterone also it seems.....I live in such fear..I begged for more time last year as he lay on the floor.....I wonder when it's up.... he scared me telling me he dreamed he had a stroke and died.....I've has issues with forboding dreams..I did have them for my brother and father before they died....maybe a co-inky-dink?
just worrysome....
oh yeah you mentioned that NMDA recptor..w/c is giving me grief cause his pain doc prescribed Dexalone for that to help slow opiate tolerance and w/c wrote nasty letter saying they didn't "see where they should pay for med for his "nagging cough"" arseholes they are!!
p.s. no he'll be on pain meds the rest of his life...he hurts so bad...I've seen his leg turn blue from the numbness and pain..(before the surgery) it like I said just hopefully stopped the worsening of the condition of nerve compression...


thanks for the info friend
Yikes sorry to hear that sounds like youre hubby has bad back problems like mine. Are you familiar with Reflex sympathetis dystrophy syndrome? May have doc check him for that and yes INJURIES LIKE THAT CAN AND WILL CAUSE LOW HOROMONES IN MEN!!!!! My hubby started getting hot flashed last christmas. I looked up to see if men really do go through male menopause and yes they do!!!! We had our doctor check his horomone levels and it was almost nil, He was practically a woman his level was like an 87 and thats about what a woman high of testosterone is we have in our bodies a mans is typically about 300-800. He's been on shots once a month now for 10 months and it has made a huge difference. You may also have his blood drawn and get gim checked for a gene known to be found in men with ankylosing spondylitis. May I also add that methadone is wicked bad stuff!!!! I have yet to hear a story where any kind of back surgery did good. My bro in law had his back fused and stuff they had to take all the hardware out of his back. The blue you are talking about really sounds like rsds you should really have a doctor KNOWLEDGABLE WITH RSDS to check him out. I get a lot of numbness in my right leg too but it don't turn blue. and hon hate to say it but if youre hubbys back is that bad you may have to cut out sexual intercourse. Which i'll admit will be very diffacult on the both of you. I am terrified to make love to my husband cause i'm afraid i'll mess another disk up or paralize him. We have cut out sex all togather. It don't mean we don't love each other we just find other ways to ajust i guess would be an appropriate way of saying that. My husband had even offered me to find a surrogate sex partner but i just can't bring myself to do that it would feel too much like cheating even though he said it's ok, but i still can't do it. Umm may I reccomend a BOB????? A B.O.B. is a battery operated boyfriend. (trying to find another nice way of saying things as appropriately as i can so please excuse me mods LOL. You may also consider support groups. And the numbness in his legs. I get that in both legs and my doc says it's caused by a compressed nerve. Does he get any burning? does his muscles turn hard? do they go to a shiney red then a blueish color? Constant pain??? if so get him checked for rsds seriously and there are not many docs that know much about it so find someone knowledgeable of rsds. some p[laces on internet offer a list of doctors that deal with rsds. if you need anymore info just let me know. also reflex sympathetic dystrophy syndrome is some say the same as chronic regional pain syndrome or similar or in same category but whatever the case have doc check him for both rsds and complex i think reginal pain syndrome aka crps. they gop hand in hand he may also have chronic fatigue syndrome with the tiredness he has. and maybe even fibromyalgia i know all those above listed they all pretty much go hand in hand with each other.

Last edited by goddessdana; 09-04-2004 at 06:12 AM. Reason: nedded to add one more thing

 
Old 09-04-2004, 07:56 PM   #9
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

Hi Goddessa,

No problem with the sugesstions...B.O.B is just not enough...kinda like why go to bologna when you've had steak...I'm only 37...he's 50....we did have a great sex life..and the more I think about it it seems to maybe (hopefully) point back to that darn methadone...I may ask doc about..and the RDS you mentioned..I've seen it on here but never thought of it...will have to look into it. He's not much for giving up just yet either as we did enjoy that part so much. For me it was my refuge in the crazy crap I gotta deal with..and now not having it is hard...

again thanks for the ideas...

oh and also he never had any hot flashes until after he almost died from a ruptured brain aneurysm last year..so I just figured that was the cause..that damaged parts of his brain??? But I just don't know???

Last edited by boaz; 09-04-2004 at 08:03 PM.

 
Old 09-13-2004, 08:39 AM   #10
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Re: how does Darvocet 100 compare to say Lortab 10's??

again i really think you should have his horomone levels checked for the hot flashes. Since Dale has started his monthly horomone shots he ios feeling much much better. And your hubby won't have to take them for ever, just a year is usually recommended. As for the other intimate area you guys are gonna have to try new positions. try chairs tables anywhere. My hubby was thinking about that last night. He said before we met he had this long chair believe it's a chaise. He said made great for sex. In fact if we had one he said it would be comfortable for us. Which yes I am on the lookout for one. But seriousley get his horomone levels checked. My husband was practically becomeing a woman. Good thing i did have him checked. And I suppose any sex is better then none. Well this is a subject that many pain sufferers have to deal with unfortunately. It's very diffacult for us because I'm am terrified that if we make love he's gonna move his neck and back just the wrong way and he'll have new damage or worse become paralyzed!! but it's a fear I'm gonna have to deal with. And there are other ways like i said and positions and places in the house. But hmm maybe i should start a whole new subject in the board on sex and pain??? It is something we all have to deal with. Good luck to you and hubby

Dana and Dale

 
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