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Old 07-13-2004, 10:18 PM   #1
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CuriousGuy1828 HB User
Question Hopefully someone can help

In October of 2003 I started to take anabolic steroids to help enhance my muscle mass. The person that I was getting my steroids from told me to buy something called "Clomid" to bring everything back to normal (including testicle size). Now that I've been off of the steroids for about 6 months, I still havn't taken the Clomid due to my doctor telling me not to. Does anyone know of anything that I can take to bring the testicle size back to where it was in the beginning. One of the major reaons that i need help is that my girlfriend is obsessed with testicles, and I don't like her to go near them due to the fact of what happened.

 
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Old 07-14-2004, 12:52 AM   #2
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orion HB Userorion HB Userorion HB Userorion HB Userorion HB User
Re: Hopefully someone can help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGuy1828
In October of 2003 I started to take anabolic steroids to help enhance my muscle mass. The person that I was getting my steroids from told me to buy something called "Clomid" to bring everything back to normal (including testicle size). Now that I've been off of the steroids for about 6 months, I still havn't taken the Clomid due to my doctor telling me not to. Does anyone know of anything that I can take to bring the testicle size back to where it was in the beginning. One of the major reaons that i need help is that my girlfriend is obsessed with testicles, and I don't like her to go near them due to the fact of what happened.
The Clomid was suggested to kick start your pituitary gland to make sure it comes back. Are you sure your testicles have shrunk and not returned to normal? How do you know? Do you have before and after measurements? Are they very soft or just firm when you squeeze gently.

If you have stopped the steroids completely for 6 months and there is no sign of a return to normal (assuming that is really true and not just paranoid fear made up in your head), then clomid MIGHT help.

 
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Old 07-14-2004, 07:54 AM   #3
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

I second Orion's opinion --- your testicles might not really have changed all that much & it might be in your head. October of 2003 is less than 1 year ago, and assuming that you were cycling on and off steroids for some of that time, that doesn't add up to all that much cumulative steroid use. Your testicular function should have no trouble rebounding from such a short peiriod of use. (Although, I would think, that if it's been six months with no steroids, you'd be returned to normal by now.) I've known guys who have used, on and off, for years, and sometimes even they can't necessarily tell for sure whether anything has changed in terms of testicle size. (Not that anyone should take that as an endorsement of steroid use; it's not.) Are you sure you're not feeling a bit paranoid because your gf is obsessed with testicles? (Whatever that means?)

If you are really certain that things haven't returned to normal --- testicular function or size --- there is Clomid or other "anti-estrogens" you can take --- Google "anabolics" or "steroids" or "anti-estrogens" and you'll come up with a ton of sites. Most of them will be trying to sell you something, but there are also sites that will give you technical information about them and what they do and various "formulas" for using steroids and then returning your body to normal afterwards. I don't think I can give you the website names here since many of them are for profit. I think you'll discover that most of the information out there recommends using anti-estrogens to return your body to normal after a steroid cycle, but that is assuming a fairly extensive/heavy cycle of steroid use, where the body's own hormone production system has been really disrupted. I don't think it is such a crucial matter if you've just dipped your toe in the water.
Curious: Is your doc against the Clomid because he's against steroid use/hormone manipulation in general and he's trying to discourage your further use of them, or because he has evaluated you and determined that your testicular function is normal and don't need the Clomid to return you to normal? If it's the latter, then you really should think about whether or not maybe this is all in your head.

 
Old 07-14-2004, 08:34 AM   #4
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

Thanks for the info and suggestions. I will tell you that it is completely obvious about the testicle shrinkage, there is no comparison to what they are now to what they were before. And it's not that I just did one cycle of steroids, I was stacking four different types of steroids at the same time. I was taking Test 250, Fenoplex, D-Bol, and one other one that I don't remember the name of. To answer the other question about my doctor...I think he told me not to take it because he was against what I was doing. I called him up one time about where to do an injection cause it was my first time, and he refused to help me. And do you know if having Ahernia could have something to do with it. I've had that for about 3 years and never got it fixed, due to the fact that it never usually bothers me. sometimes my right testicle will swell up triple it's size and my lower right abdomen will raise up and it will be hard for me to move. Maybe what I just told you guys will help out with some more answers

 
Old 07-14-2004, 09:37 AM   #5
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

Hmmmm.... how long was your cycle? The longer your body is on steroids, the longer it's going to take to return to normal. Sometimes --- these things are kind of unpredictable.

I don't know if the hernia has anything to do with your recovery, but I doubt it, since the two things are completely unrelated and act under different mechanisms --- a hernia is a physical occurence and steroids are hormonal. But, dude: the hernia thing sounds pretty bad --- you should get that fixed and not let it go.

Two things bother me about your doctor experience, in general. While it's not surprising that your doctor refused to help you --- I'd suspected that was the reason he was against the Clomid --- a person can't really expect a doctor to help you do something that might be potentially harmful to your body. But does he know that you've had a hernia for three years? It seems that if he knows this, he might have encouraged you not to let it go. And also: in spite of the fact that he may be against steroids, now that the damage is done (so to speak) doesn't he have some kind of responsibility to help you get back to normal. I won't go so far as to say he has an ethical, moral or professional responsibility --- but as a doctor concerned about his patient's health, he has an opportunity here to restore your functionality and at the same time drive home a point about what a mistake it might have been for you to use the steroids in the first place. So, if I get this right: he's willing to ignore a hernia which has existed for 3 years (unless he doesn't know about it) and he won't address your concerns about testicular function, not even to guide you back to normalcy while he issues a warning?

It might be time to talk to a new doctor. Luckily, you don't need a doctor to get anti-estrogens. I'm not encouraging that --- it can be dangerous and it seems like you need to see a doctor about a few different issues. But you need to see a doctor who will deal with your needs, in a practical manner, without passing judgements. It's ok for a doctor to treat you, even if he doesn't agree with what you've done or are doing and let's you know that. If he just refuses to treat you, he's not really providing for your care.

That probably didn't help very much, but this is going beyond my scope of knowledge --- that's why I think you need to see another doctor: to determine whether or not something hormonally is going on with you related to the steroid use or if there's any connection to the hernia, and to develop a plan to fix it all if there is something wrong. Good luck!

 
Old 07-14-2004, 11:10 AM   #6
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

Thanks for the reply back, I dont' know what my doctor's problem is. I was going to make the appointment at another doctor to get checked out, but the whole testicle thing is kind of embarrasing. I guess I would rather be healthy then to have something else happen. My one friend is an EMT and said that Hernia going untreated can cause something to stop the blood flow through your testiles and cause infertility. But I was also reading up on it online and it said that some kinds of Hernia can go untreated. So I never really thought of it as a problem. And about the Anti-Estrogen, can it be harmful to your body? Does it have serious side effects? If you can let me know that, it would be greatly appreciated. I am extremely thankful for the help that you have given me already, and look forward to getting some more answers from you.

 
Old 07-15-2004, 08:10 AM   #7
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

Wow, I didn't know that hernias could stop blood flow. There may be some types of hernias that can go untreated, but wouldn't it be better to find out from a doctor if yours is that type of hernia?

When you say you were going to go to another doctor, but you were embarrassed by "the whole testicle thing", what do you mean by that? Isn't the whole testicle thing the reason why you would be going?

I have a very rudimentary knowledge of hormones, so please keep in mind that anything I say about them is coming from a source that may be inaccurate.

Every man has both testosterone and estrogen in his body, and both are important for various functions within his body. As I understand it, normally there is about 10 times as much testosterone as estrogen, and it's the testosterone that is most crucial for the what we think of as "normal" male characteristics and functioning. But the small amount of estrogen that's there is still there for a reason. Ideally, there is a balance between these two hormones --- not an equal balance, obviously, but a balance that is designed to make you the way you are. Although there are generalizations that can be made, this balance is also highly individual. So one specific person might have a relatively high amount of estrogen in his body, or a relatively low amount of testosterone, and that might be normal for him, and he might function just fine that way and seem like everyone else. That's why there are not any hard-and-fast formulas for how to supplement with steroids or return to normal afterwards --- there are only suggested amounts, things that probably work for most people, but your results may vary. This is also why if you are going to be messing around with your hormones in any way, it is extra important to establish baseline numbers for how your body works and then (as much as is possible) do it under the supervision of someone with some medical knowledge (or at least someone who is very experienced with hormones).

From what I know, yes, there could be some side effects and long-term harm from using anti-estrogens for an extended period of time. When I say an extended period of time, I'm talking about a year or more. Usually anti-estrogens are used for a very short period of time --- say, eight to twelve weeks --- to give your body a little jump start and help goose your own testosterone back into production while you are coming off of steroids and your body's own natural testosterone production has been shut down a little bit. What happens when you take steroids is that you supply larger-than normal amounts of [something androgenic, like testosterone]from an outside source, and that causes your body's own natural test production to back off a bit --- this is why your balls shrink. Often you cycle something [like Clomid] to suppress the estrogen you have in your body at the same time, in order to get the maximum effects of the andros you're supplying to your body. When you come off of the steroids, you could do nothing --- and eventually, with enough time, your body would go back to normal. But you'll have to go through a tough time for awhile, becuase for awhile, your body's own test production will still be somewhat suppressed. It will take a while for your body to ramp up your own production and get back to normal, and that is often a real bummer of a time period because your body is all screwed up --- low test and flooded with estrogens. Bodybuilders reccommend anti-estrogens such as Clomid during that coming-off-of-steroids phase in order to ease this transition. What they do is suppress your natural estrogen production, in order to allow your body's own testosterone to get in gear. The idea is that they are only to be used for a short period of time, as a transition device.

Estrogens affect fat storage and utilization in the body, they may offer some heart protection benefits, and they help to offsetthe more unpleasant side effects of andros, like acne and hair loss. So if you were to suppress your body's natural estrogen production for a long period of time, you would lose all of those benefits, while at the same time, gaining all the good benefits of natural testosterone production --- and increasing your succeptibility to all the bad side effects of testosterone. Again, there is designed to be some balance. When you take steroids, you are deliberatly upsetting that balance in order to gain something in return --- usually more muscle mass. But you have to understand how you are tweaking that balance in order to know how to return the balance back to normal. A person could just take anti-estrogens, whether they are on steroids or not, in oder to suppresstheir body's natural estrogen production. But they would again be upsetting that balance, and they should know that while there may be benefits, there will also be risks. You should only do the things that are worth it to you in terms of how much benefit you will gain as opposed to how much risk you will assume.

Estrogens in men do have unwanted side effects --- the most troublesome one is that it can cause your body to retain fluid and body fat. This is especially troublesome if you've just been on steroids and your body is consequently lean and hard and muscular. This is why body builders often suppress their estrogen production when they are coming off steroids --- so in the weeks immediately following a cycle they don't get all soft looking. Again, both steroids and anti-estrogens are dsigned to be cycled on and off in relatively short cycles. A typical steroid cycle might last eight weeks on, sixteen weeks off. If your body is left to it's own devices, it will eventually return to normal, but it may take twice as long off steroids as you've been on them to return to normal. I have heard of bodybuilders who were on steroids for a year or more, almost continously --- really abusing them, where they were on for months and then took really short (like two to four week) breaks in between going back on them, and kept this up for a year or more. And in some of those guys it took, like, a year and a half for their balls to return to normal.

I'm giving you all this information so that you can compare your own experience with some others. You haven't said yet, but it doesn't sound to me like you were on steroids for that long or that you used them that extensively. My gut feeling is telling me that your balls should have returned to normal by now, even without the use of Clomid --- didn't you say you were off for six months now?
I can't help thinking that the steroid thing is just a coincidence --- that if there is something werong with your balls, it may be related to your hernia or another problem altogether. Not trying to scare you. But couldn't a reduced blood flow make your balls seem like they haven't returned to normal? It seems reasonable. Again, it seems like you have a few issues that you need to discuss with a doctor --- sooner rather than later --- you need to get the opinion of someone who actually knows what they are talking about (LOL) --- because all this is just speculation on my part and I could be wrong about everything.

After all this, tell me: how did the steroids go? Did you get what you wanted out of them? Are you much bigger now? Was it worth it?

 
Old 07-15-2004, 12:15 PM   #8
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

Once again thanks for the tremendous amount of information, it helped out alot. I guess I am gonna have to go see a doctor sooner or later, I'm just not really that up to it as of now. To answer your question about the steroids, yes they gave me exactly what I was looking for. The funny thing about the whole situation is that I stopped using them, and lifting, all together. I got up to benching 325 lbs, and weighed as much as 185 at 21 years old. As soon as I got up to that, I realized my golf game wasn't nearly as well as it was prior to the steroid usage. My ultimate goal in life is to become a professional golfer, so I realized steroids wasn't the way to go, and that I should stop lifting like that due to the effect on my game. I'll keep you up to date on what is happening, and once I see the doctor, I'll aslo let you know what he says. Thanks again for all the help.

 
Old 07-16-2004, 08:10 AM   #9
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

No prob. Hey, I work with a woman whose husband auditioned for this new reality show they are going to have where they follow a bunch of guys around for six months or something while they try to make the PGA tour. I think they all live together or something, someone gets eliminated each week, etc. etc., and then the winner automatically gets his PGA card, whether he qualifies by the PGA's rules or not. I think her husband got in, but he would have had to be away from home for six months and he makes more money than she does and they needed his income, so he decided not to do it. I don't know when it comes out, but look for it. Maybe you can go for it next year --- if you don't mind your life being under a microscope! LOL.

Good luck & let us know how everything turns out.

 
Old 07-16-2004, 04:40 PM   #10
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

That would be awesome! About time they come out with a reality show that I wouldn't mind watching all the way through. I just wish that I could find out about these things before they hold auditions, so I can get on the show. Thanks alot for letting me know, I will keep my eye out for it.

 
Old 12-02-2004, 09:06 PM   #11
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Re: Hopefully someone can help

[ removed ] this problem is quite common. Almost ALL men's testicles will come back to normal eventually.
To help speed it up..find some HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) which is extracted from the urine of pregnant women. HCG mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.
HCG...I feel it is SOOO important because your testicles WILL shut down & they quiclky atrophie (shrink) maybe not enuff for u to tell but they DO SHRINK.
Here is an analogy..while CLOMID & NOLVA "Call the fire department (your testicles)& call for water (natural TEST) to put out the fire (ESTRO levels & NO natural TEST production)...if the fire department(testicles) are closed, u can call all u want but until they open...u ain't gettin any water.
Stupid analogy but ...while your testicles WILL come back on their own (some ppl take months..especially on TREN (Fina) which u used..it is harsh on HTPA supression) & begin making TEST, with HCG, they come back quicker.

Last edited by moderator2; 12-02-2004 at 09:25 PM. Reason: please carefully review the posting rules

 
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