60 days clean and worried.... - Page 2

Banker · 08-25-2004, 12:17 AM

Hey Lisa - I wish I had the perfect answer all in a short little paragraph. I can tell you ONLY what I know or what I can speculate on. This is what I know... my father (who I no longer have a relationship with - well, never did really but at one time we tried) but he's a recovering alcoholic - I mean heavy duty AA man and has been clean for prob 15 years. He STILL attends meetings, sponsors people, etc. He told me that when he goes to the dentist... and he had REALLY bad teeth - (which I believe is totally hereditary because I have them too. Why do all of us addicts have them? - because we spent our money on drugs rather than regular dental work? -this is a joke)... Anyway, he said that because of his drinking... that he cannot have ANY pain pills because it will trigger his need some type of drug, whether it's drinking or whatever and he will fall off of the wagon. So he went through some major stuff done w/every tooth being pulled and cut out and then dentures put in.... He did this with absolutely no narcotics at all. I guarantee you that heavy duty AA/NA people will know the answer to this.

I've known people who have had C-sections and have only needed tylenol after the surgery and that's it! Lisa, I'm being honest because you asked me to be... the dental stuff (and trust me, I'll be in your shoes one day when I have enough money to get all of the work I need done completed) but your dental stuff is what made you fall off of the wagon last time. There absolutely HAS to be a way for you to get through this without narcotics... HAS to!

I know that there have been times when I would suffer from my migraines when my doc would give me an anti inflamatory SHOT in his office... no narcotics... I could drive and it would work for pain. This way, you wouldn't be hurting your stomach (which by the way... how long are you having to suffer w/this ulcer? - shouldn't they be giving you stuff to 'heal the wound' in your stomach?)... Anyway.... I guarantee you that if you really, really try hard enough. You can get through this without narcotics and you can be absolutely positive that you will remain clean. I mean, if things got too bad... couldn't you go in and let them give you a shot to numb your nerves in your mouth as they do when they are working on it?

I realize that these solutions aren't the most ideal... but nothing is going to be in our situations. As far as the question about what do Sub users do.... My doc told me that if I was ever in a wreck or whatever and had an arm amputated (just an example) - that the ER had drugs that could override Sub... but you know what? I don't believe him. I think they would try and try to give me whatever they could, i.e. morphine, fentanyl, etc. but It takes about 3 - 5 days for Sub to get off of your receptors so that a real narcotic could work. In addition... Bupenorphine is an opiate and supposedly does help w/pain. but then again, you are stimulating your receptors with those opiates and that's what you need to avoid at all cost. Remember... just 30 more days and your receptors are going to be doing SO MUCH BETTER.... your cravings will decrease drastically.

I don't know what else to say other than if you really, really want to try and do this opiate free.... there are ways. I would highly recommend that you get in touch, if you aren't already, with some AA folks and/or like someone else said - contact a pain management location. See if you dentist would be willing to give you shots twice a day with like Bextra or something like that in it...??? It's just a thought. But you can get through this, Lisa.

Again, I know you feel stuck, and I wish I could offer something better for you. I'm just so scared that once your receptors get a taste of those opiates... they are going to go wild in your brain.

Someone else good to ask is Michelle since she was clean for a good while and then had to take a small amount but then got right back on the wagon. Anyway, Lisa - pls keep us posted and let us know what you find out. I'll call one of my AA friends and ask him what they recommend in situations like this and I'll let you know... K? Good luck and I'm so very proud of you for staying sober so long. You've got it in you girl to beat this. I know you do!!!!

Christin · 08-25-2004, 03:23 AM

Hi again...couldn't sleep and was thinking about your situation, so thought I would ramble a bit with some more thoughts

Banker made some really excellent points. I know a man, much like Banker described her father, who is an AA oldtimer and refuses all narcotics no matter what. He has had cancer for almost 2 years and is pretty near the end now, with the cancer having spread, and he still hasn't taken anything other than tylenol. It can be done, the mind is a very powerful thing, I guess the trick is to figure out how to channel that power into pain tolerance vs addictive thinking

Also something else to keep in mind is that not everyone is going to feel the same amount of pain even in identical surgical situations. Mainly because we all just have different responses to pain, but also I really think that the skill of the surgeon can have something to do with the pain afterwards. I had a c-section, before I had ever taken a narcotic, and I was completely immobile from pain for almost 5 days, even on that morphine iv where I could just push the button to make it give me a dose

I was on vicodin for at least 3-4 weeks after I got home also. Many women do not have that rough of a recovery, though.

On the other hand, last fall I had 2 wisdom teeth extracted, you know where they have to dig 'em out and break them into pieces to get them out? They actually put me under for the procedure because they said it was going to be a very difficult and painful ordeal. They told me to expect to be in a great deal of pain for at least two days and not to try to go to work or do chores or anything for the weekend. They sent me home with a script for 40 hydro 7.5's with TWO refills, so I was pretty convinced that I was going to be in a LOT of pain! They gave me a shot of something during surgery that they said was a long-acting numbing shot, but that it would wear off after 8-12 hours. Well, when I left the office, I couldn't feel a thing...no pain. So I got the rx filled and got home and waited for the pain to hit. And waited. And it just never really hurt very badly! I could feel some pressure, inflamation, just uncomfortableness, but nothing that came close to requiring a narcotic. I shared my experience with anyone would listen, I was so astonished at the lack of pain, and I started hearing from other people who had the same experience with this surgeon and found that I wasn't alone...he apparantly is just very good at what he does! And my other thought about it is that the pre-meds may have helped. He had me start taking an antibiotic and a pretty strong anti-inflammatory (lodine) 48 hours before the surgery. I know you said you can't take the anti-inflammatory stuff b/c of your ulcer, but as Banker suggested, maybe he could give you injections instead of the pills?

ANYWAY, I don't know how this info is really useful, other than I just wanted to share my thoughts. Lord knows I never seem to have the right answers or make the right decisions in my own life with situations like this. Honestly, I have started to believe that the only reason I am 6 months clean is because I no longer have access to the pills ( I was getting them for "free" from work

).

I wish you all the best with this!

WICHRIS · 08-25-2004, 03:24 AM

Hey Lisa...Congratulations on the 60 days !!! That is absolutlely fantastic,
you are truly and shall remain an inspiration for me...Although I am not
aware of your clinical hx..i.e. ulcers,etc..and I do understand your hesitation
about using opiates for dental post-op pain and rightfully so..Perhaps you
could ask your doctor/dentist about the following alternatives ( NSAIDS-
the cox 2s..such as celebrex ,vioxx much easier on the stomach as opposed
to the older NSAIDS..naproxen,ibuprofen,piroxicam,etc ...and the cox 2s have
shown efficacy very similar to opiates...In addition, perhaps you
could ask your doctor/dentist about a "medrol dose pak"...altho it is a
corticosteroid ( hard on the stomach )...it is often used for post-op pain
as an alternative to opiates and as long as taken after food,etc (according to pak instructions it might be ok with your stomach )....another possible suggestion would be "ultracet"....37.5mg tramadol/acetaminophen tablet that also could be
used for the post-op/dental work as opposed to opiates...Make sure your
dentist/doctor is aware of your clinical hx such as ulcers,etc and ask the
doc about some of these alternatives if you are interested...This is very
common practice for the above meds to be used to control pain...as opposed
to opiates...In addition,depending on what type of ulcer you have...there
are meds you can take to prevent any problems from the cox2s and even
the older NSAIDS....just ask your dentist/doctor and hopefully he/she is
aware of these alternatives,pharmacology,pharmacokineti cs,etc...Hope this
helps you...as I hear your hesitation and concern and there ARE alternatives
to opiates that will get you thru the post-op dental pain...just check with your doctor/dentist....I hope you find this post helpfull...I am sorry I am
so late in touching base with you on this issue...but I paged my own
Dr. tonight to get an emergency appt. tomorrow ASAP for my depression
I am currently fighting.....unfortunately I am personally losing the battle..
altho I AM happy to report I am 100 % clean...kicked all the opiates,benzos
and muscle relaxers...now if I could just kick this despair ,darkness that
surrounds,consumes me day and night....I care about ya Lisa and please
let me know if I can be of any further help in any capacity,etc...Again,
please accept my sincere congratulations on 60 days !!!...you have been
and shall remain an inspiration to me as many others here...

Love....Chris

leelie · 09-06-2004, 05:53 AM

I just had six teeth pulled on one side then a temporarty partial denture over the top. I did not do pain pills. Instead I tried what they told my mom to do after a histerectomy (bad spelling). I alternated tylenol and advil, I took 4 of each alternating every 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

If your teeth are bad, like mine were, the pain you have gone through while getting there and the last 60 days was probably bad, if not you probably have a high pain tolerance. i did Just fine with the over the counters, with an ocassional spot rub down of one of the gum numbing products. I think the orajel gel worked best.

good luck

Angel of Mercy · 09-06-2004, 08:59 AM

Everyone's level of pain is different but this procedure can be done without pain "management." I'm a puss when it comes to pain so I know I couldn't do it without but my husband had the same exact thing you are having done and he did it without ANY narcotic pain medication and he managed quite well. He had all of his upper teeth removed and had an immediate denture put in. He said the second day was the worst and only drank milk shakes (minus a straw) and mashed potates, scrambled eggs and such for several days. My husband is the type of person who NEVER takes medication, he won't even take aspirin unless he's to the point of "dying."

Like I said...I couldn't and wouldn't attempt to undergo anything such as this without narcotic pain medication but just wanted to let you know that it can be done. Good luck to you.