ACNE: The New Theory

[erica1213]

Hi kkbp7825,
Thanks for your response. I certainly hope that you aren't offended by my skepticism-like I said, I'm certainly interested. I am wondering how you know about histadelia to begin with. Do you work in biochem or did you just do your own research, etc.
I am somewhat unclear on how you made the connection that acne is related (excess toxins of course make sense, but was this your own conclusion or where did it come from-Chinese medicine?)
Anyway, I'm very excited for you that you've had such great results. I'm just trying to understand all of the pieces and the mechanism.
ALA is certainly a great supplement, but I've also heard that it helps with insulin resistance, which has also been linked to acne. So I'm just wondering how you can be sure that the problem is actually histamine.
Regardless, I'm really happy that this method has worked for you, and I'm interested in any other info you have to share.
Thanks!

[erica1213]

Interesting...
I found the following two abstracts:

Biomed Pharmacother. 1987;41(5):253-4.
Cimetidine, a histamine H2 antagonist, seems to have anti-androgenic activity. 22 young women were studied during follicular phase prior to and after a 3 month period of treatment with cimetidine (1,200 mg daily). Three month treatment with cimetidine resulted in a significant decrease of seborrheic index (p less than 10(-4)) and casual level (p less than 10(-4)). Testosterone level, TeBG binding capacity and free testosterone were unaffected by the treatment. Cimetidine decrease sebum secretion without change in androgen parameters.

Hautarzt. 1982 Oct;33(10):521-8.
H2-antagonists differ from the commonly applied antihistamines (H1-antagonists) by blocking a different spectrum of histamine-mediated pharmacologic reactions. Their effects on the skin as the target organ may be stronger, weaker, or even reverse. The main representative of this group of drugs is cimetidine. Other compounds are still in experimental stages. Some controversial effects were reported in urticaria, pruritus, atopic dermatitis, mastocytosis of the skin, and also in acne and psoriasis. With polyetiologic symptoms, as are manifested in cases of urticaria and pruritus, the efficacy of the drug may depend on the underlying disease. In acne and psoriasis, the clinical type and stage of the disease may also play a major role in the outcome of such studies. Experimental and clinical findings suggest that cimetidine has some immunomodulating effect in terms of influencing the delayed type skin hypersensitivity. The intake of cimetidine should be registered in patch testing. Application of H2-antagonists may be beneficial in diseases with reduced immune resistance (generalized mycotic infections). Serious group-specific side-effects of H2-antagonists are not yet known. Several side-effects have been reported following oral intake of cimetidine; however, their frequency seems rather low.

[erica1213]

ok, sorry to flood this board, but I'm finding interesting stuff. Apparently Tagamet, which I think is used as an antacid is Cimetidine, an H2 antagonist.

[smite]

kkpb,

I'm very intrigued by this, because the more I think about it, the more I think I could be histadelic. Before I attempt to locate all the ingredients, I do have some questions that I hope you could answer.

- What is your acne history? How long have you had it? How severe?
- How long have you been on this treatment?
- What is your current acne status? All clear I hope?

- If cost was not an issue, would you take both ALA and Acetyl L-carnitine? How much Acetyl L-carnitine? Divided dose like ALA?
- As anitfaith asked, could you please give as much information as possible on the Chinese Herbal Medicines you mentioned? I think that I am going to have a really hard time locating these. Pifubing xueduwan seems to an exact name of a medicine that contains a particular mix of herbs, but I cannot find it online at all. The other medicine seems to be more generic. Could you give us the list of the 7 herbs so that we might find a comparable product?

Thanks so much for any answers you could provide.

Firstly..I am sorry to have taken so long to reply, i have been very busy for the last 2 weeks.

but i am very interested in the research done by erica. they seem to back up the theory quite well. My initial perspective was that pharmaceutical h2 antagonists would be inaffective, but these two studies seem to suggest that they may actually be affective, especially the first abstract that you posted.

to answer your questions.
erica..when i was studying pre-clinical medicine i had to do biochemistry and i came across it then. I was intriged by many of the signs and symptoms of histadelia, because i seemed to have them. Also many of the treatments for histadelia are also treatments for acne, histamine increases metabolic rate and increases toxin (reactive oxygen species..ROS) production, on a cellular level, that is why many people who eat a very healthy diet still get acne, because the problem is with food itself.

I then learnt about the effects of histadelia on insulin resistance (there is a direct correlation due to chronically increased carbohydrate metabolism), and on modulating the immune system (as mentioned in the second abstract you posted). The ROS causes increased inflammation, and modulation of receptor sites IN THE NUCLEUS of ketatinocytes and sebocytes in the skin. These receptor sites are called peroxisome proliferator activated receptors (PPARs), these receptors work along side...and this is where things get really interesting....thyroid nuclear receptors(thyroid hormone levels affect acne), retinoic acid receptors(where tretinoin and isotretinoin work), vitamin D and androgen receptors. The interaction of these receptors determines the rate at which keratin is shed and at which sebum is produced.

Both ALA and essential fatty acids act on PPARs, similarly zinc forms a key part of the retinoic acid receptor and without enough zinc vitamin A cannot work to decrease ketatin proliferation.

With regards to the chinese medical connection. I had a long discussion with a chinese doctor, who described the fact that food itself creates the ROS which cause the acne, because acne sufferers have a genetically fast metabolism. I realised that histadelia also is associated with a rapid metabolism and excessive toxin production, since i have most of the signs of histadelia, my theory was that this could be the cause of the super fast metabolism and hence my acne.

your last point is a very good one..ALA probably works in many ways, antioxidant increasing insulin sensitivity, and as a positive modulator of PPARs. But all these positive effects oppose the negative effects of histadelia, have your blood glucose checked randomly, in my case it is always slightly high, not diabetic but high, due to the fast carbohydrate metabolism, chronically raised glucose leads to insulin resistance. But the problem isnt insulin, because injecting insulin has been shown to improve acne. Also complete fasting improves acne, thus the problem is high blood sugar levels, where does the sugar come from and why is it too high if you don't eat a sugary diet?

Now for smites questions..sorry if these answers are not as good as they might be but i am writing this at nearly 2am and am knackered.
anyway..

1. i have had acne for 9 years, normally mild-moderate (with antibiotics, tretinoin, niacinomide, azeliac acid and various supplements)..it has been very severe three times, (i have been on isotretinoin twice)

2. i have just finished 1 month of toxin-histadelia treatment, and need to replenish supplies tomoro. Although the first two weeks of treatment were so sucessful that i got slack on some of the regime (ie. calcium), i mainly take the chinese herbs, methionine (with other liver support), msm, ALA as well as the usual acne supplements.

3. My current status, (which i measure by how much benzoyl peroxide and cover cream i need in order to go outside) is...i could happily go out with no Bp or cover cream, which is brilliant for me, but i have slacked in the last week, (not taken supps at regular hours, skipping breakfast, pizza, cookies, pizza etc) so i currently have about 4-5 tiny non-inflammatory white heads, (NB 5 weeks ago i wouldn't have considered them spots worth counting).

4.I have started taking acetyl-L carnitine, because it improves the penetration of ALA into mitochondria to clean it up, at the moment i take 600mg ALA with 400mg Acetyl L carnitine, however i may re-evaluate this
latter dose soon.


5. If you want to get the herbal medicines then i suggest you visit a chinese doctor, they arent things to order on-line without first having your toxic load examined by a chinese doctor (they do this by taking an acne history, palpating your pulses and examining your tongue), because the dose is not fixed and they are powerful treatments. The difference between them and other detox herbs is that they dont just cleanse the liver and the blood, but also the cellular mitochondrion as well as regulating your metabolism. the herbs are written in chinese so i cannot write them, but i will see if i can find out for you.


In the interest of completeness, i will also say that probably the only food group that generally produces the least toxins is green vegetables. I have also noticed that my tolerance to other food groups seems to have changed, i now seem to get tired after eating bread!? i never did before. This may be coincidental. I also use niacinomide gel in the mornings and cetaphil cleanser so that you know.

Lastly because of the posts by erica i will be adding cimetidine to my daily regime at night. Hope thats ok..
thanks
good night