Overmedicated?

[gib]

Originally Posted by Stumper

Gib,


I am going to take an uneducated guess and tell you that you lack some blood flow to the brain due to several meds and the Prop has more than likely been the precipitator as it has slowed you heart a great deal..
You BP looks to be quite low before bed which is good.
Let me ask you this...When your BP is higher do you feel better? I too have used a Beta Blocker and in the past have taken too much and it gave me similar feelings.

Thanks for the input Stumper. My BP is usually up when I'm standing/walking and way down once I sit and measure after a few minutes. But yes, being active usually shakes the feeling for the most part. The symptoms are most noticed sitting at work in front of the computer. Then I look out the window and my vision is slow in focusing on objects further away and the 'out of it' feeling is most prevalent then.


What is you heart rate BPM?

Ususally in the 50's, I just checked now and it was 53 BPM


Also your weight loss alone may be contributing to some BP reduction and perhaps you would get by with a much lower dose.

That's what I'm assuming. I said Doc, I want to get off the meds if possible, He said reduce your weight and exercise. I do that but still have raised BP when up and walking, so now he wants me to document my BP over a period of time. I've been going 'round and 'round with him on this for a few years now. He's quite happy pushing the pills and maintaining the status quo level of my BP meds and doesn't really pay attention when I tell him about the way I feel. He disregards it and says I shouldn't really experience that much side effects. You might tell me to see another doctor, I just think I need to be more proactive in talking about BP meds with him. All docs seem to get snippy when you don't agree with them though.

Another question on heart rate. During exercise, my target rate is around 125 BPM. I can't even get close to that, usually a little over 100 BPM and that's at a good clip on the eliptical machine after 30 minutes. The question is, does the reduced heart rate due to meds effect your overall heart conditioning? If meds keep the rate down, does that mean I need to work even harder to get it up were it needs to be for good heart conditioning?

[Stumper]

Thanks for the input Stumper. My BP is usually up when I'm standing/walking and way down once I sit and measure after a few minutes. But yes, being active usually shakes the feeling for the most part. The symptoms are most noticed sitting at work in front of the computer. Then I look out the window and my vision is slow in focusing on objects further away and the 'out of it' feeling is most prevalent then.

uh huh...Yes, I know that feeling you speak of. If I get to much Beta blocker I get the same, and when you are sitting your heart is pumping very light and slow. When I felt that personally I cut back on the Beta some, in your case propanolol, and in a day or so I felt much better.

Ususally in the 50's, I just checked now and it was 53 BPM

That's a good slow rate which is good but what was it before the Beta blocker?

That's what I'm assuming. I said Doc, I want to get off the meds if possible, He said reduce your weight and exercise. I do that but still have raised BP when up and walking, so now he wants me to document my BP over a period of time. I've been going 'round and 'round with him on this for a few years now. He's quite happy pushing the pills and maintaining the status quo level of my BP meds and doesn't really pay attention when I tell him about the way I feel. He disregards it and says I shouldn't really experience that much side effects. You might tell me to see another doctor, I just think I need to be more proactive in talking about BP meds with him. All docs seem to get snippy when you don't agree with them though.

Yes, I know what you speak of here about docs. Personally I would just begin to shave back some of your BP meds (slowly) and watch your BP closely. I am not trying to discount your doc at all but sometimes not all doctors are sure. Many times its kind of left up to us to adjust things a little.
But yes, your right, be very aggressive and proactive with him.

Another question on heart rate. During exercise, my target rate is around 125 BPM. I can't even get close to that, usually a little over 100 BPM and that's at a good clip on the eliptical machine after 30 minutes. The question is, does the reduced heart rate due to meds effect your overall heart conditioning? If meds keep the rate down, does that mean I need to work even harder to get it up were it needs to be for good heart conditioning?

Probably the reason you cannot get close to your target range is more than likely the Beta blocker. With to much Atenolol my heatrate would get down to 45 BPM. I felt as though I had a weight on my ankels all day, plus funny feelings in the head and vision as you describe.
Lenin should have a better Idea on your meds plus there are others here as well.

[Lenin]

Gib,
I've taken propranolol in the past for a long time. As you know, it's a fast hit drug that wears off quickly unless you are taking the long-acting formulation (not sure how well that works.) A typical dosing schedule for 160 mg might be 40 mg. every 6 hours...is that what you take?
I had 40's but took one in the morning and one mid-afternoon but no more because an evening pill kept me awake all night.
That fuzzy, groggy feeling is very typical of the pill, you'd THINK something that acted like that would CAUSE sleep but NOOOO (In my best John Belushi, RIP.) My worst problem was thigh weakness when climbing steps,,,and New Yorkers climb LOTS of steps.
I can't imagine taking the stuff anymore and maintaining my 6 day a week gym schedule. I still have a bottle (actually bottles and BOTTLES) to treat a rare case of "stage fright" with 40 mg...it works!

If your heart rate is down to 50-53 with it, I think you might feel overall better by getting off the stuff. Do it somewhat gradually with like 40 mg.m orning and 40 evening if you don't get the insomnia. After a couplle weeks go 20-20 and than drop it. You can always start up again iof your BP goes too high. It IS a good antihypertensive, but, like all beta-blockers, it has a lot of baggage. It even prevents migraines.

I'd recommend it for anyone who needs it for any TWO reasons (angina, tachycardia, rhythm irregularities, migraine, stage fright, hypertension) but not just for hypertension.

I think the drug that is the best in your regimen is the lotensin? Have you ever tried it alone?

[gib]

Originally Posted by Lenin

Gib,
I've taken propranolol in the past for a long time. As you know, it's a fast hit drug that wears off quickly unless you are taking the long-acting formulation (not sure how well that works.) A typical dosing schedule for 160 mg might be 40 mg. every 6 hours...is that what you take?

I guess I'm taking the long acting stuff as I take one 160mg pill in the morning, once a day. Perhaps that would be one thing to change on the next Rx refill, a switch to smaller dosage a couple times a day as that would give me a little flexibilty to manipulate the dosage on my own. Or just ask him to reduce the dosage with the long acting stuff. The way it makes me feel, I'd guess I could cut it down as much as half? But then again, there's been others that say I should get off the beta-blockers all together, but that's another thread I guess.

I had 40's but took one in the morning and one mid-afternoon but no more because an evening pill kept me awake all night.
That fuzzy, groggy feeling is very typical of the pill, you'd THINK something that acted like that would CAUSE sleep but NOOOO (In my best John Belushi, RIP.) My worst problem was thigh weakness when climbing steps,,,and New Yorkers climb LOTS of steps.
I can't imagine taking the stuff anymore and maintaining my 6 day a week gym schedule. I still have a bottle (actually bottles and BOTTLES) to treat a rare case of "stage fright" with 40 mg...it works!

I'm at the gym 4 days a week and do 45min to 1 hour of cardio. I do feel pretty 'out of it' after a good workout. The doc originally put my on the beta-blocker to help combat problems with anxiety, it helped but didn't do it all for me. He set me up with Xanax for the times I get myself worked up too much, plane rides, job interviews, etc.

If your heart rate is down to 50-53 with it, I think you might feel overall better by getting off the stuff. Do it somewhat gradually with like 40 mg.m orning and 40 evening if you don't get the insomnia. After a couplle weeks go 20-20 and than drop it. You can always start up again iof your BP goes too high. It IS a good antihypertensive, but, like all beta-blockers, it has a lot of baggage. It even prevents migraines.

I'd recommend it for anyone who needs it for any TWO reasons (angina, tachycardia, rhythm irregularities, migraine, stage fright, hypertension) but not just for hypertension.

I think the drug that is the best in your regimen is the lotensin? Have you ever tried it alone?

Good points, the only problem is getting off the Inderal to try just the Lotensin. And I'd probably get some flack and eye rolling from the doc in suggesting my own plan for medication, but I'll try to persuade him. I did run out of pills for a day a few years ago, found out you can't just stop the beta-blockers as I had a bad anxiety attack at work. Had to drive all the way home to pop a xanax to calm me down. Whew, don't want to do that again. Damn health problems anyway...Thanks!

[Autumn1]

Atenolol has kept my bp under control but I have been living with that
slightly dizzy lethargic feeling since I've been on it. I went from 50 mg daily to 25 and I still feel the same. It gives me a low pulse (high 50's very low 60's) and I feel like I have constant cloudiness or a stuffed feeling in my head.
Not to mention general aches and legs that feel like lead at the end of the day.

I always feel like I'm the only one who feels the effects of beta blockers until I hear similar complaints from others. I'm staying on it because it's the only bp med that has consistantly kept my numbers in acceptable range.
(except when I'm having it taken at the doctors, of course.)