Maggie

[oh-notagain]

Maggie;

Hi. I decided to start another thread to avoid breaking the inegrity of the one that we were posting in. It didnt start as a "me talking to you thread" lol
anyway, i am the exact same way - i screwed up already by eating badly, taking more pills than i should, or whatever i screwed for that day; so now my whole day is shot so why even try today.. tomorrow is another day. i HATE that addictive thinking !!!!
im having a hard time staying on the one mg. i cant seem to make it through the day... so i end up taking more later on in the day cuz im feeling sick. i do agree with you that the sub definitely gives me more migraines. i get them once in a while, but not on a regular basis; and imitrex works for me. but i've been getting them on a regular basis since beginning the sub and the imitrex is not working for them now !!!
do you notice that you are feeling exhausted a lot on the sub? do you feel like you are having a hard time staying awake in the middle of the day? im just wondering b/c this has been happening to me. and i find myself so exhausted by 1 or 2 that i've got to find a way to get home and take a nap. i've even gone to the park to take a nap in my car in between clients !!! i havent told anyone about it. it sounds so bad, i thought i was supposed to be getting better !!!
thank you so much for your response, and please keep me posted with your taper. i will say a special prayer for you tonight maggie. God Bless.

Michelle

[reachout]

Hello

I have never been on sub, but I can so relate to what is happening to you presently! And before I write another word, I so want to tell you that it is not happening to me at all at this point!

When I was using oxycodone.... up to ten tabs a day at the very end, there was no other drug that could even begin to touch the pain I was experiencing. None. And you know why? because the opiate family is so strong that it blocks the ability of other drugs to work properly in our bodies. Drugs have a absolute tendency to potentiate one another... like benzos totally potentiate the strength of opiates and vice versa. I learned this ten years ago but conveniently forgot this so important fact and at some point added a benzo (xanax) as a tool in my arsenal artillery. It was prescribed off label for nerve damage. Made sense to me as I chose for it to make sense.. I asked for it to be prescribed... it was not offered. The doctor prescibed it because I made it sound so sensible to him. Totally on me, not the doctor.

So, the opiates and benzo combined and potentiated one another so well, that for a long while, I was not aware opf pain so much and could function in what I thought was a better way. Wrong! It only lasted for a while until I needed to up doses for the same effect. Multiply the number of tabs, decrese the pain. The flip side of that is that while potentiating the 'good' effects, we ALSO potentiate the unwanted side effects!... fatique, depression, and such. And unhappily, this, unlike the physical pain does not reach a plateau, but keeps climbing up a higher and higher mountain.

Unfortunatley, most of us fall off the mountain at various points. we have brakdowns, become unable to function normally, drop dead of heart attacks and fall prey to a multitude of other illnesses that are all connected.

Opiate use depresses the breathing and circulatory systems. Our teeth suffer because of this. Ever wonder why so many of us have major dental problems after prolonged use? Cocaine induced heart attacks are well known. what many of us do not realize is that all opiates can lead to this. It is just that cocaine users often use more of their drug of choice more frequently and cocaine gets a lot of coverage in the press. However ALL opiates work the same. A rose by any other name.....

Many drug users also suffer diabetes. This is not because the opiates raise our sugar levels ( at least not that I am aware of), but because drug use tends to make us not care about our dietary habits. we eat fast food because we are too tired to cook properly. We crave sugar foods because the opiates make us tired and sugar is a quick fix for energy. We carve carbs like pasta because carbs are satisfying and comforting and make us feel full quickly. "I am too tired to eat." even as I got fatter and fatter, I would say that. Of course, because I was too tired to cook, I would eat fast food, loaded with grease and carbs... no wonder I had a heart attack! My cholesterol was out of control.

Now I am opiate and benzo free. I barely take an aspirin and that only when I really am in pretty severe pain. And because no other drugs are in my system, aspirin has once again really become a powerful pain killer for me. It trats the exact issue of inflammation and pain in my leg and occassionally my head. I no longer take it if I have a headache from fatique... now I rest instead and the headache subsides. DUH! Such a darn easy concept to understand, isn't it? And yet somewhere along the line, I lost that concept because I wanted the totally numbing effects and quick sleep the opiates induced until they turned on me... which will always, always happen. They will become the source of pain and fatique raather than the masker of it. This is often more apparent in alcohol abuse, but is absolutely as strong a truth in drug use, particularly opiates and benzos.

You know what I read a long time ago and several times since? That if aspiring were invented today, it would be a prescribed drug only... and Tylenol should be the same. They are powerful pain and inflammation killers that can do powerful damage as well. Aspirin can destroy our digestive systems and Tylenol can destroy our livers.

I wish you well on your progress to get off all opiates. sub can be a useful tool, but is an opiate just the same. It is marketed as a cure to opiate addiction... but an opiate to cure an opiate addiction is a contadiction in terms, isn't it? Chuckles.

Stay strong in your convictions, be well
reach

[maggie0704]

Hey There!
I like that you started a new thread. I don't know about you, but finding which one i last posted in, or remembering if someone wrote back on another one gets confusing and sometimes i miss if someone wrote back. So this is good to keep track of "our" talks.
It's funny that you said you drive to park to take naps between clients. I've always been a very tired person. But having been on some type of narcotics for over 7yrs., i wonder if it's all due to them. I know i've never been a hyper person or one who has all this bubbling energy...but i also can think back to before i began taking opiates and remember that it wasn't as hard to get thru the day as it is now. But what's weird for me, is that when i take the sub., i actually get a burst of energy. Well, i call it a "burst" only bcuz it is the only bit of energy i feel all day. It lasts around 2-3 hrs. And that is the MAIN reason i am addicted. That is why i initially became addicted to Lorcet.
I found myself being able to "get up and go" a lot easier than i used to and i took them and "ran with it". Of course, as time goes on and the tolerance goes up, i stopped having that "high" i initially had and found myself taking more to try and get that energy i craved so much.
I really believe that if i could find a way to help my lack of energy, it would be easier to stay away from narcotics. It's weird bcuz from what i've heard the narcotics are actually supposed to make people tired. But for me, they always gave me energy.
I can remember taking them for the 1st time when i had wisdom teeth removed and i was told i would be very "sleepy" while on them. Not me.....I was doing laundry, dancing around, making phone calls, accomplishing so much more than i would without. And then i was hooked!!!!!
So with the sub., it actually gives me a boost of energy, but it is short lived. And maybe i am actually MORE tired after i come down from the "high" but i don't realize that bcuz i'm so used to being on something.
I sit here and find myself being envious of my girlfriends and others who are able to wake up in morning and have a full day of activities without anything in their system. I'm always wishing i were them. And even though i know that "the grass isn't greener" i atleast wish i had their energy.
That is my biggest fear of coming off these entirely. And of course, my main reason of stopping now is i want to try for a baby again (had 2 misc. last yr). So having that pregnancy fatigue along with my normal fatigue is scaring me to death!!!!!!!!
Like right now, i am working (it is 9:30am) and i could take a 3hr nap EASILY!!
It sucks!
Anyways, sorry to go off on such a tangent. It's just that when u mentioned you being so tired, i related soooo much and it struck a raw cord in me.
I had a bad day yesterday and i took an extra 4mg. (total 12mg) bcuz i had a terrible headache that just wouldn't quit. It never ending up going away totally and i suffered all day long. Imitrex DOES work for me, but it has to be a migraine or i will get really sick and throw up. And from experiencing h/a's since i was 16 and working for a neurologist for 5yrs, i'm pretty good at telling which kind of h/a i have now. And there are so many different ones that need seperate kinds of meds. Like yest. was a tension/sinus ha. So it was very hard to get rid of. But if i would have taken imitrex, it would have made things worse.
But i'm not gonna let yest. slip me up.......i'll be back to 8mg. today! I pray that i can take it since i have another bad h/a right now. A lot of it is hormonal and it being that time of month. So i just have to be patient.
The good thing is i work from home - for my Dad (who is a recovering addict) and he is also on sub. so he understands my chronic pain, since he passed down the lovely headache/migraine issue to me.
He will be on sub. forever. He's suffered for about 40yrs. and the poor guy just needs a break. LONG STORY...but in the end, he has been in constant pain for his entire life and if this helps than that's all that matters. I'd rather his last yrs. on earth be productive than miserable. Even though i know that sub. is addicting and addicts aren't considered "sober" when taking them, i have seen him lose way too much of his life to be upset with him taking it long term now. No one deserves that much pain. And only he can answer to God so i can't judge him bcuz of what he chooses.
Anyways, i've gone on wayyyyy too much here. Just wanted to respond and see how u were.
How much are u on right now? What dose were you on before and for how long????
I can't remember from the original thread bcuz there were so many people in it. Update me!
I will pray for you too sweetie and we'll help eachother thru this!

[maggie0704]

Originally Posted by reachout

Hello

So, the opiates and benzo combined and potentiated one another so well, that for a long while, I was not aware opf pain so much and could function in what I thought was a better way. Wrong! It only lasted for a while until I needed to up doses for the same effect. Multiply the number of tabs, decrese the pain. The flip side of that is that while potentiating the 'good' effects, we ALSO potentiate the unwanted side effects!... fatique, depression, and such. And unhappily, this, unlike the physical pain does not reach a plateau, but keeps climbing up a higher and higher mountain.

reach

Hey REACH:
I really liked the paragraph above bcuz it brings a good point to the table. Which is that we think we need these pills when actually these pills are what's making us feel worse and then we take more. Something like that.
The pills cause so many other "side effects" that we begin to believe that these "side effects" are things that we've always dealt with and now these "magical pills" are helping us. When in reality, "these pills" are causing us to have feelings of depression, legarthy, etc.....and these feelings come when the chemical is making its way out of us....so we need more pills to make those feelings go away. All the med. is doing is causing our bodies to have EXTRA unwanted symptoms when it is lacking in our bodies, so that we THINK we need that pill to make it go away. It is something that i remember very well when i was sober. I remember thinking "wow!, i can feel normal and have normal energy", but when we're in the throes of using, we can't recall those times as easily and it becomes something we can't belive is possible.
I feel like i'm not making much sense here, but what i'm trying to sum up is that OPIATES CAUSE SYMPTOMS THAT WE TRY TO IGNORE AND PASS OFF AS SYMPTOMS WE'VE ALWAYS HAD......WHEN IN ALL ACTUALITY, THESE SYMPTOMS ARE A RESULT OF THE OPIATES. AND WHEN WE STOP THESE OPIATES, WE WILL BEGIN TO GAIN OUR NATURAL ENERGY AND NATURAL PAIN FIGHTING ON OUR OWN. OTC MEDS. WILL BEGIN TO WORK BCUZ THERE ISN'T ANYTHING ELSE "CLOUDING OUR JUDGEMENT"
Thanks for the email!!!

[oh-notagain]

reach,

thanks so much for your response !! I get it !! I do !!! I remember clearly what it felt like to be sober. Lovin Life For Real !!!!
and the sub is definitely causing all the migraines. i know that. i just wish i wouldnt feel so sick when i try to cut to 1mg !! Its only a 1 mg. cut !!!! i didnt have any trouble going from the initial 8 to 4. none !!! oh well, i'll keep trying. i just went ahead and took the 2mg this morning. I have a long and busy day. I also took my nap
i really appreciate your concern. thank you !!! michelle

maggie;

I was addicted to pain pills since i was 21. I cooked and cleaned and took care of work, my house, my husband. I WAS SUPERWOMAN !! As you know, eventually it takes more and more to get to that point. and then more and more just to feel "ok".... so sad. but thats what led me to heroin. i couldnt take the pain pills any longer. the tylenol was killing my liver. so, enter heroin... problem solved. ha ha ha.
as far as the sub goes, in the beginning i did feel a rush of energy that lasted 3 or 4 hours. i still do get a little rush in the morning. but i dont want to take any more during the day.. and thats when i crash !!!!
thank you so much for letting me know a little more about whats going on with you. i wish you all the luck in the world. please keep me posted. and i will with you too. maybe we can slay the dragon together !!!

michelle