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Old 08-13-2007, 11:41 AM   #1
BPAspergerMom
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WI
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Getting desperate to get this under control

Hi. My son has been diagnosed Asperger's, ADHD, Bipolar, ODD and PDD. He is a very bright young man who had rapid cycling pretty much his whole life, although he didn't get diagnosed until age 7. He is now 14 1/2 and ready to start high school in a few weeks. He had been controlled fairly well for the past 2 years on Abilify, Adderall, Cogentin, Topamax, other than adding Wellbutrin in winter for depression (possibly seasonal affect disorder according to doc). For the past six months now things have been falling apart, with manic/hypomanic episodes. We have already tried increasing all of his current meds with no improvement. Recently put him back on lithium and watching closely. He has had difficulty metabolizing this in the past. I also always felt it made him more irritable and he had other side effects of incontinence, flat affect, difficulty concentrating. Risperdahl did not help, Zyprexa puts him out cold in about 15 minutes. Neurontin did nothing for him. Seroquel caused a heart irregularity after he was on it for a couple years. Don't know what to ask doc to try next. It is like living in a war zone here in my home and he starts at the high school where everything will be new and different in a few weeks. At a reduced dose of lithium he is already getting much more irritable in the morning especially, and his tremor is becoming more pronounced. Looking for any encouragement and/or suggestions of other meds that you may have had luck with. Our doc has always been very willing to listen to suggestions I have gotten in the past and at one point this is what made enabled the breakthrough for stability that we had for those two years. We will be going back to see him in about two weeks and I really want to be able to ask about any other alternatives. I asked at last visit because of past problems with lithium and depakote, but he felt we should give the lithium a try again after seeing son's behavior in office. So far it's looking like that wasn't the answer once again. Anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated. I am at the end of my rope with son being verbally and physically aggressive.

Last edited by BPAspergerMom; 08-13-2007 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:58 AM   #2
jendg28
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: russellville, arkansas, usa
Posts: 198
Re: Getting desperate to get this under control

I'm sorry you are going through so much stress with your son. I take Lithium, but I don't have any problems aside from a few mild side effects. I really only know about Bipolar Disorder and OCD. I'm not familiar with the other disorders your son is suffering from, so I really can't offer any advice about them. Is he in therapy? Quite often, cognitive behavioral therapy will help people learn how to cope with Bipolar. Recognize symptoms, etc. Also, a lot of patience is needed. It's very hard, borderline impossible to find a medication that will work in just a few weeks. Most medications require gradually increasing the dose to reach a theraputic dose. Especially Lithium. It can take weeks(sometimes more), for a medicine to start working. It can also take a very long time to find the right medication and or combination of medications to work. I tried lamictal, geodon, zoloft, lexapro, trileptal, seroquel, and many others before my doctor found the right combination. Sometimes the combination of medications is what works. My suggestion is (as hard as it is), be patient and continue to do a great job communicating with your son's doctor. I can't imagine how hard it is to see your son suffer and I'm sure it's hard to put up with the abuse as well. Just remember, it takes a while to find a happy medium with all of those meds. I'm sure it's harder to treat a child as well. They can't take all of the medicines and the high doses that adults can.
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:47 PM   #3
davina33
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Location: kentucky
Posts: 22
Re: Getting desperate to get this under control

god bless ur heart..mom... i know its hard i have fought meds after meds after meds for over 5 yrs with my gurl she is 13 and as of july 31st i had to comite her to a pyc hosiptal was hardest thing i ever had to do but all that would happen here was meds would be changed and help for 6 months then wouldnt.. then the last 3 months went really bad... she was takin out of reg middle school in march and sent to a day treatment center cause she threatened to kill 4 school officials.. her meds was out of wack again she isnt a violent klid if shes got meds right but like i was sayin last past 3 month we changed her meds 3 times..nogood at all..still abusive to em and othes aggrisive.. so i had to commit her.. as soon as i did they took her off the adderall xr and ridlin and upped her risperdal to 4mg.. so now with risperdal 4mg and strattera 60 mg and tenex 1 mg.. she seems to be doin alot better.. she has adhd and o.d.d, and maybe manic but not really sure.. so shes been in this hosiptal for 2 weeks and its helped alot that i have seen just on calls to them and visits... maybe that might be what u need to do its hardest thing to do but for ur own good as well as his.. see bout gettin him admitted into a phyc hosiptal. research ones on net for around u and talk with his doctor... it has did wonder for my gurl and after 2 weeks .. shes gettin to maybe come home the 15th..and doin better.. i am sorry the other 2 dieses he has i have no clue about... and i feel him starting high school like this might lead to alot of fights and stuff ur not gonna wanna deal with.. i say best is to maybe check into having him admitted into a phyc facility... thats what i had to do and was a really good choice they will not let them go untill they r stable on their emds and with them selves.. well i wish u all the best and ur son also.. i know its hard but sometimes tough luv is the answer... god bless u....davina33
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:24 PM   #4
goody2shuz
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,882
Re: Getting desperate to get this under control

Hi...welcome to the boards There is a wonderful poster here who goes by the name GatsbyLuvr1920 who has Aspergers who once in a while pops in here. I believe that she has found wonderful results with Lamictal....anyway she is soooo knowledgeable and I will try to point her in your direction.

Meanwhile I just wanted to welcome you and hope that you find as much support and kindness as I have found on this board.

Love ~ Goody
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:03 PM   #5
GatsbyLuvr1920
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,901
Re: Getting desperate to get this under control

Hello, BPAspergerMom! Often what you will find with an Asperger's child is that, before the Asperger's diagnosis, they will either be given a myriad of misdiagnoses to try and explain all of the symptoms that Asperger's brings or they will be given one or more correct diagnoses of comorbid psychiatric disorders (a disorder that occurs with another disorder) but these correct diagnoses do not explain everything. I would say your son is a mixture of both.

To give you a clear-cut example of the second scenario, I will use myself. I have comorbid Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I figured out I had OCD long before I ever heard about Asperger's Syndrome, and I was officially diagnosed with OCD a year-and-a-half before I was diagnosed with Asperger's. The OCD helped explain some of my rituals, and it certainly explained my "bad thoughts" (I'm a pure obsessional) and need to confess and pray, but so many other things went unanswered. Why did certain clothing bother me to no end? Why did I yell at my mother when she would interrupt my routines? Why did I hate being around people? Why did I have a tendency to become obsessed with a certain subject? So, with me, I have both OCD and Asperger's.

However, in many instances, you'll find an Aspie being first misdiagnosed with OCD because of their "obsessive-compulsiveness." However, OCD obsessive-compulsiveness is much different than that which is seen in Asperger's. On the same wavelength, you will often find an Aspie being misdiagnosed with ODD, ADD/ADHD, bipolar disorder, and even schizophrenia. It is possible to have all of these and Asperger's. So, your son very well may have ADHD and ODD, in addition to the Asperger's. Having comorbid disorders is a very tricky web, and it's hard to untangle what comes from which disorder. I do see one misdiagnosis, though, and that is with the PDD. Your son cannot have Pervasive Developmental Disorder AND Asperger's. It is a redundant label. Asperger's Syndrome IS a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, so he cannot have both AS and PDD. Perhaps a doctor is wavering on whether he has Asperger's or PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Not Otherwise Specified), but there is no need for him to have both labels. A diagnosis of Asperger's would be sufficient.

The bipolar disorder in your son does not sound like a misdiagnosis, since you have said that he has had actual hypomanic/manic episodes. These do not occur in Asperger's. In Asperger's, the mood swings are almost always related to interruption in routine, unexpected change, and/or sensory issues. I can have a tantrum one minute, and twenty minutes later, I'm perfectly fine. Bipolar individuals aren't like that. They cannot simply "switch off" their mood. A truly manic person who is grandiose and euphoric will remain that way, even if they learn terrible news. Likewise, a truly depressed person will be depressed, no matter what good things occur around them. It's harder to detect in children, because bipolar children/teens often are rapid cyclers, and it also is often hard for an Aspie who ISN'T bipolar to tell you what made them angry. This is why keeping a mood journal is essential.

The most important thing about medications is that your son must not take an ADHD stimulant or an SSRI without taking a mood stabilizer. These medications have a great tendency to cause (hypo)mania in bipolar individuals, and the risk is usually increased when dealing with teenagers. I have not heard much about the risk of (hypo)manic episodes occurring when taking these types of medications with an atypical anti-psychotic (like Seroquel and Risperdal), rather than a mood stabilizer, so you should be sure to ask your son's doctor/psychiatrist about the possible risks of using these meds with an atypical anti-psychotic only.

As goody mentioned, I have had success with the mood stabilizer Lamictal for my Asperger's-related outbursts. I still have lots of temper tantrums and get set off by small things. However, my tolerance for annoying people has gotten to be much better. I started Lamictal the fall of my freshman year of college, before I was diagnosed with Asperger's, and I had a roommate. Needless to say, an Aspie + a roommate's unpredictability = disaster. I was in tears every day. The Lamictal combined with getting my own room was what kept me from taking a semester off. Your son may very well have success with Lamictal, but it is hard to say. Everybody's individual neurobiology is different, and that's why the field of psychiatry is so hit-and-miss/trial-and-error, when it comes to medications.

My PCP, college psychiatrist, and even myself were suspecting that I had cyclothymia (bipolar IV; a VERY mild form of bipolar disorder), but the reason that I don't believe I'm cyclothymic is because my mood swings are preempted by things that set Aspies off and they aren't continuous. They start and end as quickly as they begin. Plus, I was on several SSRIs over the years for my OCD, and I never became (hypo)manic. The "bipolar" symptoms (me talking nonstop about my "special interest," which was seen as "pressured speech" and "flight of ideas," because I ramble and have tangential speech patterns; me not being able to control the volume of my voice; my erratic sleeping patterns; and my general moodiness and temper tantrums) really were the Asperger's.

Typically, Lithium works best with bipolar individuals who have "classic," euphoric manias that are indicative of bipolar I disorder. The more one strays from having "classic" manic-depression, the greater the chance is that they will do better on one of the anti-epileptic mood stabilizers (such as Depakote or Tegretol- Lamictal is another one). Things that cause "straying" from the textbook case of bipolar disorder include: early-onset, having comorbid neuropsych disorders, being a rapid cycler, having bipolar II disorder, having mixed episodes (both manic and depressive symptoms together), having psychotic manias, and having predominantly irritable (hypo)manias (rather than predominantly euphoric ones). Your son seems to fit many of these criteria. Perhaps you could talk with his doctor about other anti-epileptics, besides Depakote. Good luck, God bless, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

And, goody, thank you so much for telling me about this post over on the OCD board, as well as complimenting me. I appreciate it.
-GatsbyLuvr1920-
__________________
"Not everything that steps out of line, and thus 'abnormal,' must necessarily be 'inferior.'"
-Hans Asperger

Last edited by GatsbyLuvr1920; 08-13-2007 at 07:06 PM.
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