Infrequent Sinus Flooding with Peroxide & Baking Soda halted my infection nightmare

[Machaon]

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*** ‘UPSIDE DOWN SINUS FLOODING’ CAN CAUSE LIQUIDS TO ENTER YOUR EUSTACHIAN TUBES AND MIDDLE EARS ***

Warning: Since I first posted on Healthboards, about sinus flooding, in Oct 2003, two people have reported getting liquid in their Eustachian Tubes and middle ears while trying this flooding. If you decide to try a sinus flooding, to attempt to treat your sinus infection problems, you should first get approval from your doctor, and do this procedure only at your own risk. I have done over 50 sinus floodings, without a problem with my Eustachian Tubes, and will continue to do them.

The following are the posts of those who reported problems with their middle ears and Eustachian Tubes.

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210&page=19&pp=5[/url]

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1409537&postcount=160[/url]

*** ‘UPSIDE DOWN SINUS FLOODING’ HAS SOLVED MY SINUS INFECTION PROBLEMS *** Part 1 of 2

I no longer get chronic sinus infections!!! After decades of swollen, stuffed-up sinuses, thick yellow gunk, sinus pain, and miserable infections, I finally have the condition under control. I feel great and have not had a sinus infection for about three years. My sinus discharge is clear, thin and normal. My sense of smell is better.

I have found a simple, inexpensive way to flood my sinuses with anti-infectives. It effectively either heals my sinus infections, or prevents my sinus infections from re-occurring, while at the same time it cleans infected garbage out of my sinuses.

My own decades long fight against sinus infections, was probably against infections contained within my nasal passages and turbinates, but not within my ‘harder to reach’ ethmoidal, frontal or maxillary sinus cavities.

I am not selling anything, nor expecting anyone to buy anything. I am just sharing what I have learned.

*** WHAT I HAVE LEARNED ABOUT SINUS FLOODING ***

I started posting about ‘sinus’ flooding, on the Internet, in the 4th quarter of 2003 after about two years without a sinus infection. Since then, as a result of significant feedback from sinus sufferers, and my own study, I have learned quite a bit about the effectiveness of this type of sinus treatment. I feel that the flooding could help against infections throughout the nasal passages, which includes the turbinates. There areas are fairly easy to reach.

I’ve received feedback from those who have received relief from problems which had symptoms of pain between the eyes or in the forehead. This might mean that the flooding is somewhat effective near the Ethmoidal or Frontal Sinuses, but I don’t know, at all, how effective the sinus flooding is in treating infections within the sinus cavities. Infections can be within the sinus cavities, AND also within the nasal passages and turbinates. If the flooding kills the infection within the nasal passages, but can't kill the infection within the harder to reach sinus cavities, perhaps that is what explains the partial improvement in someone's symptoms. A doctor might suggest the use of antibiotics and the sinus flooding at the same time, for infections that are also in the sinus cavities.

The flooding seems to be least effective for infections within the ‘difficult to reach’ Maxillary Sinuses, under the cheek bones, although some with infections in their Maxillaries did see some improvements in their symptoms.

I am not a doctor, so I can only post about my own personal experiences and interactions. I don’t have the knowledge or experience to attest that this flooding will, or will not, help someone else as well as it helped me.

From feedback and personal experience, the following symptoms improved due to sinus flooding.

• cough
  
• Dark circles under the eyes.
  
• Pain around the eyes
  
• Headache pain
  
• Swollen neck lymph nodes
  
• Problems breathing through nose
  
• Fatigue
  
• Film on teeth
  
• Discolored, thick mucus
  
• Brain Fog

*** HOW I DECIDE TO FLOOD MY SINUSES ***

My sinuses first get stuffy, and then I feel like I am getting a cold. I feel sinus pressure in one or both sides. Over the next few days my sinuses start closing up more, and getting more congested and painful. I get a thicker yellow discharge. This condition has either led to an infection, or continued to give me misery for long periods of time, so I start a series of ‘upside down sinus floodings’, using an anti-infective mixture.

I've flooded my sinuses about 50 times over the past three years, which is less than two floodings per month. Most of my sinus floodings were during the first six months. The result-------- I have not had to use antibiotics in the past three years, and I have not had an untreatable infection. Every time I feel like my sinuses might be infecting, I flood them with anti-infective. The flooding, including preparation, takes 15 to 20 minutes.

There is a lot of pollution and pollen in the air, which is always being breathed into the sinuses. I do an "upside down" flooding every time my sinuses start to ache. Junk comes out, and the ache goes away.

*** HOW I GET STARTED ***

I buy a plastic saline nasal spray, for about $3, and empty it. To do this, I take the top of the sprayer between my thumb and my forefinger and firmly bend the top to the side. This lifts an edge a little bit so I can get my thumb’s fingernail underneath the lip, and twist the top off.

I then fill the empty saline nasal sprayer with a pinch of baking soda, a pinch of salt, 2.5ml to 5ml of ‘common store bought’ 3% hydrogen peroxide and 50ml of filtered water. I never exceed 5ml, of 3% peroxide, to 50ml, of filtered water, or a one to ten dilution of 3% peroxide to water AT MOST! I then jam the head back down on the nasal sprayer, and make sure it fits well.

Mixture:

- Between 2.5ml and 5ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide (or between ½ and one teaspoon)
- Pinch of baking soda.
- Pinch of kosher salt or sea salt.
- 50ml of filtered water. (or 2.5 tablespoons)

Hydrogen peroxide can be very irritating to the sinuses, so I am very careful with how much peroxide I use. When I first started experimenting with the sinus flooding, I used more than 15ml of 3% peroxide, to 50ml of water, and it really stung my sinuses and made my sinuses close up much worse on both sides, and the discomfort lasted for several days. So I never use more than one part of peroxide to 10 parts of water.

Based on feedback from others, I now believe that it is better to start out with a greater dilution, using one part peroxide to, at least, twenty parts filtered water, in order to reduce the stinging side effects from using the peroxide and to reduce any cold-like feeling that comes after doing the flooding.

*** HOW I FLOOD MY SINUSES ***

Before each sinus flooding, I place a towel and a tissue nearby. To do the sinus flooding, I kneel on both knees. I then place the top of my forehead down onto the floor of my shower, and then forcefully spray the mixture into my nose, which is tilted up. My head is not exactly vertically "upside down", but almost vertical.

The more clogged my sinuses, the longer I keep my head down on the shower floor, letting the mixture seep deep into my sinus areas. I shake the mixture occasionally and make sure that I spray most of it into my "upside down" nostrils. I spray it forcefully into both nostrils. I make sure that the container tip is firmly implanted in my nose so that the liquid can't come back out of that nostril. When my sinuses fill up, I spray forcefully into one nostril, and it often comes out the other nostril. I keep my head ‘upside down’ on the shower floor for several minutes after the flooding in order for the mixture to get deep into my sinuses.

I shake my head, and tilt my head SLIGHTLY to the left or the right in order to help work the mixture into my sinuses. A lot of the mixture usually foams out of my nostrils, down my forehead, and onto the shower floor. A little messy. I keep my eyes closed so that it doesn't drain into my eyes.

*** HOW I PROTECT MY EUSTACHIAN TUBES AND MIDDLE EAR FROM DAMAGE ***

This seems to be safe for me. In over 50 ‘upside down sinus floodings’, I have not gotten any of the mixture in my Eustachian Tubes or Middle Ears. If I would try it in any other position, like on my back, I would be nervous about the mixture getting into my Eustachian Tubes. Why? The Eustachian Tubes are on both sides of the throat, near the back of the throat. They are somewhat across from the nostrils. On my back, with my sinuses filled with liquid, there would be a possibility that the opening to the Eustachian Tubes would be under liquid. Any cough, swallowing, yawn or chewing action could open the Eustachian Tube and allow liquid to flow in.

A brave and daring friend tried the sinus flooding on his back, in order to get the anti-infective liquid deeper into other areas of his sinuses, and now has to deal with liquid in his Eustachian Tubes and middle ears. I wish him a full and timely recovery.

[Machaon]

*** ‘UPSIDE DOWN SINUS FLOODING’ HAS SOLVED MY SINUS INFECTION PROBLEMS *** Part 2 of 2

ONCE MY SINUSES SEEMS TO BE FLOODED, I TRY NOT TO BREATH IN THROUGH MY NOSE, SWALLOW, CHEW, MOVE MY JAW OR YAWN. THIS IS TO AVOID SUCKING THE MIXTURE INTO THE EUSTACHIAN TUBES OF MY EARS.

I have intentionally, and stupidly, breathed in through my nose, when my sinuses were flooded, to see what would happen. I experienced more foam, but nothing else happened. It was a stupid idea that I won't do again. Too much risk of plugging one or both Eustachian tubes, or having the liquid go all the way into my middle ear!

After the flooding I lift my head, while it's in the shower, and let my nose drain into the shower. It can look pretty bloody, foamy and nasty. I then stand up and use the tissue(s) to clean my forehead of the foam, that seeped out of my nostrils during the flooding. I don't blow my nose for a few minutes, in order to give the mixture a little longer to do its job with my head in an upright position. After that, I blow my nose.

*** WHAT I EXPERIENCE DURING A FLOODING ***

Even at 3ml peroxide to 50ml water (½ teaspoon peroxide to 2.5 tablespoons of water) it can sting quite a bit. Most of the time it just stings a little. But sometimes it stings quite a bit (depending upon how sensitive my sinuses are at the time). I just grit my teeth and tolerate the stinging of my sinuses, and after a little while the stinging starts going away. Sometimes the flooding causes me to sneeze. When I have to sneeze, I lift my head up, so that I will be in a more comfortable position to sneeze. Then, I continue with the flooding, or prepare for another flooding if I am not able to flood my sinuses with what is left in the sprayer.

The flooding usually produced a lot of foam, especially if I used 5ml of Peroxide. Sometimes there was a mix of blood with the foam. Subsequent floodings might have produced very little foam and a lot of bloodish water. I guess it all depended upon the condition of my sinuses at the time of the flooding. Currently I get very little foam or blood.

I found that there is no additional discomfort after the flooding is over, unless I use too much peroxide. Others, though, have said that they have experienced long bouts of sneezing, or feelings like they were catching a cold for a day or two. Now that my sinuses are doing so well, 5ml of peroxide to 50ml of water hardly irritates my sinuses. The discharge is still slightly foamy, but fairly clear.

*** WHAT DOES THE FOAMING MEAN? ***

Hydrogen Peroxide will kill many types of bacteria, virus and fungus that it meets, all WITHOUT foaming. Foaming mostly happens when Hydrogen Peroxide comes into contact with injuries, saliva or blood. Why? Hydrogen Peroxide is actually harmful to injured human cells or blood cells. These human cells protect themselves from peroxide by producing an enzyme called catalase. Catalase protects the injured human cells by converting the peroxide into oxygen (the foam you see) and water. The foam, or bubbles, are pure oxygen bubbles, which, when released, can kill germs it comes into contact with.

Healthful, unbroken skin has little catalase, and usually doesn’t convert hydrogen peroxide into oxygen foam and water. That’s why you won’t see much foam if you pour peroxide on your skin.

My interpretation then, of the foam, is that the hydrogen peroxide has probably encountered injured areas in the sinuses. The foaming of the pure oxygen, plus the anti-infective mixture, could then kill most germs within the injured areas. Repeated ‘upside down sinus floodings’ would continue to clean out the injured areas, and, over time, allow them to heal by preventing additional damage caused by repeated infection.

There are actually some germs, which are resistant to hydrogen peroxide. So, hydrogen peroxide might not always kill all of the harmful germs within the sinuses. Also, it might be a good idea to use a suitable antibiotics along with the ‘upside down sinus flooding’.

*** MY EXPERIENCES WITH ‘UPSIDE DOWN’ FLOODING ***

The Flooding is not the most pleasant experience, but it isn't too bad, and it works for me. When I first started using this type of flooding, I gave myself several floodings within a day, to treat a suspected infection, or to treat very irritated, swollen, or closed sinuses. Then I would repeat the floodings over the next several days until my sinuses seemed to be responding. Then I would skip a day or two and see if my sinuses continued to do better. The number of floodings I use is also based on the amount of garbage that needs to be flushed from my sinuses and how my sinuses feel. If my sinuses aren’t too bad, just a couple of floodings for one or two days seems to improve the functioning of my sinuses and takes away that ‘getting a cold’ feeling.

After a series of floodings, it still can take a few days for my sinuses to get better and it may make me feel like I am catching a new cold. But when my sinuses settle down, I feel great, with wide open and calm sinuses. What a great relief to not have to use antibiotics several times a year!

At first, while I was experimenting, I took antibiotics around the same time that I was doing the ‘upside down sinus flooding’. So, of course, the antibiotics might have helped. I am also on a corticosteroid nasal spray. I took no other sinus medicines during these three years of doing the ‘upside down sinus flooding’.

I can now go for months without doing a flooding, and my sinuses feel great. I didn’t realize how bad my sinus problems were making the rest of me feel. I also found out that, until my sinuses were totally healed the discharge continued to be somewhat thick and yellow. Now that my sinuses are healed the discharge is relatively clear, and I seldom have to even blow my nose.

The first few times I did a flooding, the discharge was real nasty, but not any longer. I am guessing that a lot of junk gets stuck up into the nasal areas for a long time and that the "soaking, upside down" flooding helps to loosen most of the junk. A while ago, my sinuses were aching. I did a flooding, and some weird junk came out and the aching went away. I used to suffer with achy sinuses for days. The aching now stops after only one flooding.

This isn’t a treatment for allergic rhinitis. For my allergies, I had allergy shots, I avoid chemicals like fabric softeners and petroleum based products. I avoid materials, dyes, dust, inks, artifical sweeteners and foods for which I am allergic. I’ve also had acupuncture treatments for my sinuses. Getting rid of my sinus infections, with the ‘upside down sinus flooding’ was a huge benefit, but it is only one battle in the war against sinus disease and sinus allergies.

*** WHY WAS I GETTING CONSTANT INFECTIONS ***

I have read that antibiotics may kill a sinus infection, but they don't kill the bacteria that is within the infected mucus and debris. So, after a round of antibiotics, the sinus sufferer might have infection free sinuses, but they could be raw and damaged, AND surrounded by infected mucus and debris. As soon as the antibiotics are stopped, the nasty old bacteria is free to attack the exposed, injured sinus membranes, and the unfortunate sinus sufferer is headed for another miserable experience.

Repeat, anti-infective sinus flooding may be able to stop germs from re-infecting injured sinus membranes.

I have also read that the blood supply to the sinus membranes is not sufficient to allow the antibiotics to get to all areas, and thus might not be effective against all sinus infections.

I did my initial round of sinus floodings, along with an antibiotic. It successfully killed my sinus infection, and some or all of the infected mucus bacteria. I don’t know if it would have worked without the antibiotic. I also took another round of antibiotics the next time I got an infection, because I didn’t trust the ‘upside down sinus flooding’ yet. But, then, right after I stopped the antibiotics, I felt like I got another infection. But, instead of using antibiotics again, I did a series of ‘upside down sinus floodings’. I haven’t had to take an additional round of antibiotics since.

I had sinus surgery in my right sinus, decades ago, and my right side would continually become infected. I no longer have to worry about the scar tissue in my right side causing an infection.

I wanted to share my experiences with other sinus disease sufferers. This seems safe and effective for me, but I don’t know if it would make someone else’s health better or worse. I am not a doctor. Those who want to try this procedure should check with their doctor first.

If anyone does this type of flooding, please post your experiences.
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*** DISCUSSION THREADS ***
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There are two other discussion threads about sinus flooding. One in the Allergies board, in the "How I fixed my sinus problems. (Updated version of "upside down" irrigation)" thread. To read, use the following link:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=129210[/url]

The other discussion is in the Colds & Flu board, in the "Treat my sinus infections "upside down" with peroxide. It works!" thread. To read, use the following link:

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=124803[/url]

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If you save one life, it is a though you save the world"

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[auntchilada]

I only have about 1 sinus infection every year, but I do suffer from awful sinus pressure headaches and one side of my nose is always stuffed up. I have also had sinus drainage, a really sore throat and stuffy, runny nose for about a week. So, I decided to try the irrigation last night. When I first squirted it into my sinuses my head immediately began to hurt pretty bad. I just kept my forehead down and closed my eyes.

It seemed like every time I squirted more of the mixture into my nose, it foamed up and ran out. So, I kept squirting in more and more. How can you tell if the mixture is sitting in your sinuses? I only used about ½ of the bottle I made. When I finally sat upright, nothing really ran out my nose. Maybe I should have used more than ½ of the bottle.

I was very careful and only breathed through my mouth. I had no problems with my ears. Today my nose is stuffy and I am blowing it a lot. I think that this is not related to the irrigation though because I have had a sinus cold type thing for the last week or so.

I am going to continue to do the irrigation every day and see what happens. Thanks for sharing this with everyone!

[Machaon]

Originally Posted by daisyheadmaisy

I only have about 1 sinus infection every year,

Only? That's one way of looking at the good side! In other words, you have good news and bad news. The good news is that you only have one sinus infection per year. The bad news is that you have one sinus infection per year.

When I first squirted it into my sinuses my head immediately began to hurt pretty bad. I just kept my forehead down and closed my eyes.

It takes quite a bit of determination to stay down when you are hurting. Nice going!

How are your headaches now? Do you normally have sinus headaches, or was this a "new" headache?

It seemed like every time I squirted more of the mixture into my nose, it foamed up and ran out. So, I kept squirting in more and more. How can you tell if the mixture is sitting in your sinuses?

When I lift my forehead, quite a bit of mixture drains out. When I was first flooding my sinuses, my sinuses were totally blocked and in a lot of discomfort. Most of the mixture was sprayed into one nostril, and just came out of the other. I still stayed down and hoped that whatever was in there would seep deep into my sinus cavities and kill whatever was in there.

The foam could mean the presence of an open wound or sore or blood within the sinuses. Actually, in most cases, when the peroxide is killing bacteria, it doesn't foam. That is why it works. Human cells, like blood, or damaged sinus membranes, produce something called catalase, which protects the human cells from the peroxide and causes the peroxide to foam, which turns the peroxide into oxygen and water.

Most infectious cells like bacteria, fungus and virus, can't produce catalase to protect themselves from the oxygen rich peroxide, and the infectious bacteria, virus and fungus cells die without foaming.

I only used about ½ of the bottle I made. When I finally sat upright, nothing really ran out my nose. Maybe I should have used more than ½ of the bottle.

What is the angle of your head to the floor of the tub, or shower? Is it somewhat straight down, or is your face almost flat to the floor. In order for the nose to be able to contain the fluid, the nostrils have got to be facing in an upward position. Your sinuses could also be plugged, not allowing the anti-infective mixture to get in there.

I was very careful and only breathed through my mouth. I had no problems with my ears.

Good to hear. Don't want any complications.

I am going to continue to do the irrigation every day and see what happens. Thanks for sharing this with everyone!

Did you find it difficult? Were you nervous the first time?

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefully this is day one in your journey towards healthier sinuses.

[mrelusive]

So... how long are you guys "staying down" during this procedure? i'm unsure how long i should have my head down.

and how much of the solution do you use in each nostril at a time?

does it matter if the solution is warm or cold?

would it possibly be more effective to be completely upside-down? like havin someone hold your feet or whatever?

i've been using warm solution and either kneeling with my whole body in the tub or kneeling over the side of the tub with some pillows and stuff under my legs to give me more of an angle. i've been puttin a lot of the solution in my nose, waiting like 30-60 seconds and then blowin air outta my nostrils and starting over...