Tough Time... sticking with sub

[2nd_chance]

Hey guys,

I thought I would just start a new thread. I know that my last 2 posts were really negative and self defeating. I don't blame everyone for not responding back to me. Quick history.... geez, I guess I could say I've had a TOUGH TIME with everything. Years of hydro abuse, have quit cold turkey several times, then in April, decided to try sub. It made me feel weird and spacy and I didn't like it. Like so many other addicts I have a habit of self medicating, so I took myself off of sub and got back on hydros. At first it was totally under control. Then the last time I got a refill, I went through 180 Norcos in a week. I got more from an OP. I knew this was it. I got a new job and didn't want to mess it up being spaced out on pills. Plus the main reason I need to get straight and stay straight is for my beautiful daughter. I'm a single mom and I'm all she's got. The sub is great for withdrawals so I got in a bad cycle of using them to last between refills then getting off them. I know how messed up that is and that I need to cancel my refills and forget about them for good. Yea, I still have pain but I have advil, alleve, tylenol, aspirin and soma for when it's all too much. Plus the sub helps the pain somewhat.

So, I came here seeking answers a few days ago. So much negativity about sub is why I left these boards this spring. This time I found a few positive posts about it (wow!) but those mixed in with what a nightmare it is to get off of. I was really torn about getting off and quitting and trying to just be clean. But I knew that the addict in me was trying to get me to quit sub so I could call in a refill on hydros.

I did a lot of reseach today on other boards. The other boards I found were all positive about sub. I wish we could share websites here b/c I found one site, totally devoted to sub, that has forums with past members like TwinLyn, Spark a cet, lots of the old timers like me... and tough time. ;-) Not only were these people posting, but they have tons of medical research and scientific articles on what opiates do to the brain and how the sub does help the brain repair itself.

I think that the reason I was having such strong cravings for hydros is that my dose was too low. I put myself on a 4 mg dose b/c I was on a 12 a while back and I remember Podee's saying that was an incredibly high dose and I felt like I might as well cut off my hand. Well, if you aren't on the right dose of sub it's not gonna work. I increased it a little today and have not been craving hydros. Thinking about them but not craving. One of the articles I read today said that when people have been dependent on opiates so long that the brain thinks they need them to survive, that's why the cravings to take them are like your body thinking you need food or water, your brain thinks they are dependent on your survival.

Anyway, I also found lots of posters who were on sub for years and for months and talked about their slow taper and how they felt great! I am going to stick with this. I know that ultimately I need to get in a 12 step program and I need to get in counseling. I'm going to try to get in with an addictionologist this week then when possible get to the 12 steps. I just started a new job and I can't take the time yet for the meetings. My boss wants to know where I am 24/7 and when I'm home it's taking care of my baby. I am going to try to do some online meetings until I can get to some. Anyway, for years and years I thought this was the only board out there that dealt with addiction and sub and everything. It's not. I've met some great people on here but most of the old timers are gone anyway. Reach is an angel of mercy but I sure do miss Kiam. Don't know if Phil and Buckeye Tim are still here.

Peace to all. Michelle (or Maggie?), there's even a scientific article on this site about pregnancy with suboxone. I wish I could have sent you the link. Hope you find it. -) Hope I don't get banned for even mentioning other sites but hey, it won't be the first time if I do.

Later,
Texas TT Debbie

[spark-o-cet]

hey texas deb,good to hear from ya.i myself am back on suboxone again for the third time since early 03 and if it were not for sub i would have lost it all probably my life to.cant say nothin bad about it for it has helped me when nothin else did.i say you have made a good choice and i applaud you in your attempt to get sober.one thing tho is you have to quit usin other opiates while on the sub if you do it really messes the brain up and it will space you out and not in a good way.ill try to write more later got to get up at 4:00am so got to get in bed.good luck-spark

[reachout]

Hello Chance

Boing! Boing! Boing! Thinking that is what your brain does when all the conflicting messages are read about sub. Yes? Think it is also what your brain does when the switch is constantly made back and forth between sub and norcos. Yes? Think the committment to anything concerning drug issue is lacking. Perhaps?

Uh oh, more boings coming on. Have to find a way to stop the bouncing.

I think, Chance, that you are allowing yourself to think rationally with one part of your mind... the rational part... when it comes to sub. However, as soon as something negative is read about it, another part of your mind is allowed to work... the addictive part... and suddenly maybe sub isn't such a good idea. Oh, better go back to hydros!... now what part of the brain is allowing you to think hydros are a better choice for you? Hmmmmmmm. Now THIS is a 'no-boinger'....

Chance, of course we honor advice given by caring people. But of course, that advice is going to vary greatly because it comes from different experiences! In the end, the advice must all be appreciated by the receiver for the spirit it has been given in, but it is up to the individual who is receiving it to decide which portions of the advice are most pertinent to that individual's realistic course of action.

Buckeye Tim used sub on a short and sweet course of action and did a cold turkey of opiates. He did a great job. I opted not to switch to any other drug at all and did a slow taper off oxycodne and did a great job. Was his plan better than mine? Nope. Was my plan better then? Nope. They were simply plans, that we stuck to, that were successful for each of us as individuals. So that is what we share because that is what we know best.

Sub is a tool. I think it is most important that it be used as a tool in the best way for each. Hydro is not a tool. It is something that is going to keep bringing you down with endless use.

I believe it is pass the time of bouncing for you. Stop. Think. Make a plan and commit to it. My suggestion is that you stick with the sub in a commiteed, controlled plan. If there is a need for you as an individual to stay on it for a great length of time, then so what? Stay on it as a time-gainer that allows you tom get your thinking calm and straight and consistent again. It is essential that you do this. The sub can be a tool that allows this to happen. Ever read any postings from Jake? he was on sub I believe for three years. So what? he gained the time need for him to allow his thinking to heal so that when his plan to stop was ready to be deployed, he was successful.

Gently I say the following, Chance.... letting the words and advice of others be an excuse for not stopping the bouncing is immature thinking. It is like a child blaming another for making them do something bad. When a child does this, we as adults know we must help them understand self responsibility and we employ tactics that help them grow towards this more mature thinking. Learn, Chance, learn.

Commit first to truly needing, not just desiring, to come off norcos and such. When that is accomplished, start writing out your thoughts about how you believe is most realistic for you to accomplish this. Come and share the ideas with us for our combined advice and experiences. Then sort through our thoughts not balancing and reading for what you like or don't like, but for ideas that seem most workable for you.

I am glad a 2ndChance is available for you! Just don't want to bank on a third one.

Hugs
reach

[skych]

Hi there Chance,

I really like what Reach had to say about making a plan and sticking to it.

Committment is a hard one for us addicts. When the desire to use is stronger than the disire to stay clean and sober in my experience drinking and using will get done.

I think that for some folks Sub is good and others it is not. Everyones body is different and everyones mind set is also different.
Trying to plug in positive thoughts instead of negative ones is not always easy.
The one thing in your post that most concerned me was that you said you needed to stay clean for your daughter!!! In my personal experience and from what I have seen watching other folks try to stay clean and sober the decision to stay clean and sober has to be made for self not for someone or something else. Just something to think about.
I think 12 step groups and counceling are freat to. Good for you for wanting to participate in those things!! I am very active in 12 step groups and I was seeing a councelor to but my Insurance is about to change and the new one wont cover counceling.
I work with a sponsor and I now have a sponsee that I am working with.

A friend of mine works as a drug and alcohol councelor and he did a report on Suboxone and said that he thinks it to be a good tool for helping addiction.
I also have a friend that takes it and she is doing well with it. She said in the begining she just had to wait untill her body was acustomed to the drug and then she said she does not really know she is taking it.
I hope that you won't wait to long to find a 12 step group to reach out at.
My entire life is different now....it is all from working the 12 steps and applying them to my life
Is life always great? No
I just keep doing the work and things in life work out!!!
Thanks for sharing and I hope to see more posts from you....Chrissy

[maggie0704]

Hey Texas!
Thanks for thinking of me! I was so happy to see that you mentioned that some of the other people on other forums, didn't have that bad of a time coming off the sub. as some others say. I guess it all has to do with each individual and how they decide to stop it. I'm doing a slow taper, bcuz i don't want to put myself in the position of taking MORE than needed bcuz i feel so crappy. If i were to do it fast, i would get fed up with the symptoms and go right back to larger dose.....i know myself wayyyy too good.
I truely believe that sub. has helped my Dad tremendously. He's a recovering addict. Also addicted to opiates bcuz of his headaches/migraines (like mine). And this is the FIRST time in his 30yrs. of recovering/relapsing, that he has stayed clean and NOT fought cravings off every minute.
It is also helping with his pain, so for that i am so happy. To see your Father suffer every single day for his entire life is very painful. And i would always worry about him relapsing and possibly dying. He over-does everything he takes. Even when he was on Imitrex for the migraines, he would take (3) a day, when the MAX is TWO A WEEK!!!!!!
So i'm thankful for the fact that FOR ONCE in his life, he is not over-medicating bcuz of his pain.
For me, i feel that the sub may be necessary for me after i deliver. I've struggled daily with the cravings whenever i've been sober. And the thought has crossed my mind many times as to whether i'd EVER be able to stay sober. With the sub., i have no cravings whatsoever.
But having had 2 miscarriages, i am too nervous to take anything while i go thru this one. I can't handle living with the thought that i possibly had something to do with it.
Sorry to go on and on.....it's just nice to talk about my specific medication. And i truely believe that it has helped save lives. Every person is different, and so is there road to recovery. And if their road is in need of some help, then sub. can help them live a normal life and not constantly be ill with thoughts of using.
Keep in touch.