HCTZ and edema question

[boots4me]

Anybody had hctz cause or aggravate edema?? Those of you that read my former post know I quit benicar in June and I've have been taking hawthorn since. Last Friday I ran out of my other bp drugs and could not get them because of car problem. Got them Sunday and didn't take them because edema in right foot and ankle had completely gone away for the first time since April, my breathing seemed more relaxed (no shortness of breath at all) and bp was fine, and bladder control back to normal. Monday bp was up a little so I took 1/2 my dose of hctz (which is 12.5 mg after cut in half). Within an hour I was dizzy and light headed. Two years of taking it that never happened. Light headed feeling left but an hour later my ankle started swelling and then my bp started rising ( 145/85). Then started running to the bathroom. Since about April, because of this stuff I've had a hard time controlling my bladder and urine in colorless and just continued to get worse but never felt dizzy, etc. I thought it might be related to the diabetes, but bs is down like it should be. In spite of this kidney function was fine when last checked so my dr acts as if lack of bladder control is in my head and I need hctz to take down edema anyway.

Tuesday morning I skipped that one and took my nifedipine. Have slight edema and bp is a little lower yesterday (wednesday). Running 130's/75-80. Now, the breathing is not like it was. At times I feel as if my asthma is kicking up a little. On the bright side, nutrients I'd ordered arrived while I was gone yesterday. I took 3 fish oils, l-arginine, folic acid, magnesium and an hour later pressure had dropped 15 points - 116/65.

I have another question and some of you might know. I came across an old article regarding magnesium. It said calcium and magnesium don't work together and to take them at different times. (Never heard that) My last blood test shows calcium just under high normal and mag just over low normal. I've been taking extra magnesium since last winter, and this is the lowest mag has ever been. I've been taking it altogether, until last night. I was taking high dose of metformin as that caused diahrea, and I'm thinking between that and hctz a lot of my nutrients were going in the sewer. OR, maybe I should take calcium without magnesium. Would welcome any thoughts or experiences anybody has had on any of this. Thanks.

[flowergirl2day]

Hi Boots,

I've been having edema issues for some time now. I am on both of the meds you are on, the Hctz and Felodipine (5 BP meds in all, plus a few others). My edema affects the feet and ankles, whole legs, or the whole lower half from the chest down. It gets very nasty.
Did you know that calcium channel blockers-the entire group- are big offenders when it comes to causing edema? Other meds that might cause edema are the NSAIDs and steroids. Are you on corticosteroids for your asthma? It's not clear what causes mine. No one is really trying to find out. It could be caused by medication, the kidneys or the heart. As far as I know, I don't have liver disease, which can also cause it.
In an edema, either too much fluid gets from blood vessels into the tissues, or not enough of it moves from tissues back into the blood vessels. Either way, the resulting edema can elevate pulse and blood pressure because of the volume overload. Do not worry too much about your increases in blood pressure. I get them, too. I also get changes in heart rate. It's always good to know what exactly causes your edema. Some doctors pass it off as no big deal. Mine says edemas are really not that bad. He'd change his mind if he ever got one of mine. I hope to discuss this issue with my BP doctor tomorrow. It could be a sign of a very serious condition. Try to have your doctor look into it.

Your Hctz is most likely NOT responsible for the swellings. It is not known to cause edema. Quite the opposite, Hctz is used to treat it.
Your electrolytes will be out of balance with excessive urination AND diarrhea. Again, ask the doc. My urine is always crystal clear. I thought that was good. Not too sure, though. I drink a lot of water.

As far as I know, both the calcium and magnesium should be taken together as you need one to help with the other's absorption. That's why you find so many cal-mag products on the shelves. They are mostly sold as a combo of the two. My husband is on metformin (and other drugs) and does not have the problem you describe. He's been on it for years. Have you just started this drug? Was your diabetes caused by the BP meds?
Sorry I wasn't more helpful, just know that you are not alone with your problems. Hopefully, others will have some ideas. One more question: what causes your shortness of breath? Is it associated with either of your medical issues? I am still looking for a cause of mine. Can a hiatal hernia and GERD cause the SOB? I just learned I have both today.

flowergirl

[bethsheba]

Originally Posted by boots4me

Anybody had hctz cause or aggravate edema??

I am not aware of hctz causing swelling of the feet and ankles. However, I am aware that swelling of the feet and ankles can be a very serious side effect of blood pressure medications and can occur when hctz is combo'd with other bp medications (the meds may stay in your body for days/weeks even if you haven't taken them for awhile). So yes, hct can aggravate edema.

Given the seriousness of this side effect, I would certainly check with your pharmacist, and with your doctor again. I would encourage a call to your pharmacist as your doctor doesn't seem to be on top of things (yes, bladder control issues occur when taking a diuretic and this is pretty common knowledge (check your your "women's beauty/housekeeping/relationship magazines) if you don't believe me.

I, too, had breathing problems on hctz, and other medications as well. I can specifically attribute the breathing problems to hctz because I would get coughing fits and everytime I did, I'd empty my bladder resulting in changing my clothes 4 times a day and numerous loads of wash (no wonder I never got anything done!). The bladder problems cleared up IMMEDIATELY after discontinuing hctz and I didn't experience them on other meds (except benicar/hct).

Dizzy and light headed may mean that your bp was too low but it may mean other things.

In spite of this kidney function was fine when last checked so my dr acts as if lack of bladder control is in my head and I need hctz to take down edema anyway.

The bladder control problem I would be willing to bet is strictly the hctz. Sounds like you are diabetic? If that is the case, hctz may not be a good med for you to take as it can elevate bs (and mask it, too?). I would encourage you to talk with your pharmacist, again, because your doctor may have overlooked a few things here.

... I came across an old article regarding magnesium. It said calcium and magnesium don't work together and to take them at different times....

I thought this was true but after reading fg's post I had better check...but it seems to me my nurse friends told me to stagger my supplements because they tend to cancel out each other when taken together.

... My last blood test shows calcium just under high normal and mag just over low normal. I've been taking extra magnesium since last winter, and this is the lowest mag has ever been. .... and I'm thinking between that and hctz a lot of my nutrients were going in the sewer....

Based on my personal experience, your symptoms, and the common med (hct) I would support that sewer theory. My opinion is to do away with the hct...it would be interesting to see if your bp stayed at a reasonable level without it.

Do read your package insert for hctz. Doctors have prescribed this med like crazy (it's old, it's cheap, and it's been around for years) but I found that aside from the suicidal thoughts and falls on my face I experienced with atenolol, I experienced the worst side effects on this med.

Bethsheba

[bethsheba]

Boots,

Am still researching the magnesium/calcium absorption issue...but I did learn that low magnesium levels can elevate blood sugar levels, so that may be why people who are diabetic are warned about taking hct. Low magnesium levels also contribute to fatigue, cognitive, and breathing problems (which may explain the problems I experienced on hct).

Also, and I found this VERY interesting...in a small study (I think it was 10 people) they found that people who increased their magnesium intake, found that their imsomina due to restless leg syndrome improved!!

Bethsheba

Also came across info that said poorly controlled diabetes may cause low magnesium levels...so in other words magnesium and blood glucose levels are closely related....and hct can impact both levels.

[boots4me]

Thanks for responding. I should have answered last night but I'm clearing out my mother's house to sell it and it was late. I appreciate your input.

First, I blame the hctz for the edema and maybe the shortness of breath that came with it. As for my asthma, I don't take anything for it. I got that under control over 20 years ago with herbs. It was due to allergies and a dr that wouldn't recognize as such. I got chickenpox at age 32 and they started up. It started as sinus and ears plugged, everything got worse while he insisted on trying more and more powerful anti-biotics and finally got to where I had bull-blown asthma symptoms. I had blue cross and needed a referal to see a specialist and was sick 8-9 mos of the year. I went to an herbalist that helped a friend with asthma. She treated the problems & I'd recover quickly in 2 or 3 weeks. The third time I had it and went to her was the last time I had bronchitis (Until 3 yrs later) I learned how to use the herbs, did juice fasting three times for three weeks and eventually built myself up so everything went away. (and quit the dr) Three years later I got the flu and the bronchial thing came back, had good ins and went to an allergist. Was allergic to 40% of what I was tested for. I had allergic reaction to one of his drugs so I went to my herbs. Three weeks later I was over it and he said he was positive I had asthma and was amazed as bad as I was that I could control it with herbs and said I would be better off if I never had to resort to the drugs. He said the original drs mis-diagnosis and not treating it properly when it started was the cause of it all.

I learned with the juicing that I have all kinds of sensitivities and learned to really pay attention to my body and anything that seems different I can usually pinpoint. To be sure, I wait and try it again (usually it's a food), if same thing happens I eliminate it. The first dr gave me keflex for a mild kidney infection I didn't even know I had, and my kidneys shut down. I had visions of being hospitalized and winding up on a kidney machine with him in charge. That experience scared me so much I didn't set foot in a drs office (except the allergist) for 20 years. Fortunately I was healthy.

My blood pressure hovered around borderline for a long time. Then the glucose showed a little high on annual health fair blood test so I broke down and went to a dr 5 years ago. He was worse than the first. He never addressed the glucose. Just told me to watch my diet, and don't take anything but a daily multiple vitamin. That messed things up and I had a blood vessel break in my eye.

Next dr was fine for awhile. A1c was 7.2 to start, got it to 5.7 in 7 months, diet only, and lost 30 lbs. I was on cozarr (12.5mg a day). My bp was higher in his office than at home - proved it to him, but he doubled cozarr - bs went up and so did bp and he doubled it again. After 4 mos heart pounded short while after taking it and heart rate sped up - to 100 - lasted about 2 1/2 yrs til I quit benicar in June when it dropped to normal. (Both drugs cause this in 5% of patients I believe I read- and benicar can raise triglicerides and mine jumped up)

Two years ago I went to a to clinic connected to hosp where I worked for 24 yrs. Bp was pretty high and it's been one drug after another, mainly to slow down the heart rate. Got a lung function test and blood oxygen was 93 and it should be 95 so I have a concentrator. Many times without using it my level is 95. I don't use it all the time and it's rare for me to feel like I'm not getting enough oxygen. As for metformin, I've taken it well over a year. I took 250 mg 2x a day and a1c went from 7.2 to 6.2. They doubled it and it went up to 6.8, so they doubled it again to 2000. (Do you think less-is-more? I do.) After awhile the diahrea started. (This happens in 51% of patients) They told me to quit it for a week to see if it goes away. It did, but they said to take it anyway. Now even 1000 causes diahrea. I've been taking 500 for over a month, but bs is much easier to control without benicar. I was having the diahrea when I had my last blood test that showed things out of whack. I also take glipizide which causes weight gain, and I need to lose. You can't win. I hate having to be on these drugs. Tiny dose of cozarr was fine, I was losing weight without half trying. Increasing it messed everything up. I had slight edema on diazide that I'd taken for 3 yrs and they switched me to hctz and it got worse.

Flowergirl. I came across a clinical trial involving edema caused by ace inhibitors and nifedipine. They used phynogenol (french maratime pine bark) to take down edema and the result was that it was quite successful and was determined that it was quite safe had no side effects. They administered 50mg 3x a day. And, it also helped take down the blood pressure. Perhaps it would help edema caused by other ccb drugs as well. I think I'll try it. Anything to get rid of the edema, and lower the bp a little more. I can't imagine being on 5 bp drugs and going through what you must go through.

Bethsheba. The old article on calcium and magnesium said calcium drives out mag. I think it also said that mag does not stay in the blood long unlike some other minerals. I see plenty of tablets that are cal only or with vit D. Maybe they've always been there and I didn't notice. I always took cal, mag & zinc then started coral calcium with all the nutrients, but I'm ready to switch back to multiple vit and cal,mag & zinc or something. I was taking the extra mag this last year because of the diabetes and it helped lower the pb and was shocked when blood test showed it was lower than last year.

Thanks again. I appreciate it.