It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Sinus Problems Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2005, 08:17 PM   #181
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3
burf7 HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Hello again, beerzoids. No, the sinus flooding was not the reason for my rotton day yesterday. Someone lashed out at me at work, and I took it to heart. Today is much better in many aspects, I even got a raise! Yee haw! Anyway, yes I tried the sinus flooding. Be warned, this post may go on forever. I have had sinus problems since I was in my early teens (broken nose was the source) and have been deaf in one ear all my life due to ear infections as a baby. No stranger to pain. I had sinus surgery in '96 to remove bone shards and repair some of the damage the unhealed broken nose had caused, which ended the constant migranes and helped drain the plugged sinuses. In the past couple of years, my sinuses have gone back to being plugged, and slightly bloody, but the two most irritating things are the bad smell in my sinuses and the pressure of them not draining. I have had scans and x-rays, that say there seems to be no infection, but my body is telling me otherwise. So, when the pain from my sinuses became unbearable, I got on the internet and started researching solutions, and here I am. I tried your flooding method, and had good and bad results instantly. Mainly, the pain and swelling in my sinuses was relieved in moments, and I can function much better. But on the downside, I wish I had done it on a friday night so I could recover over the weekend. My nose and my face right behind my nose became hot to the touch, and there was some pressure there that said that all the fluid did not drain out. I started sneezing and couldn't stop, and then my nose started draining out the fluid in such quantities that a lot went down the back of my throat and into my stomach. I felt swollen and crummy for most of the past five days, but I also think that all of the bacteria and stuff that washed out exposed me to all the stuff that was hiding out in my sinuses. This morning I took two sinus-and-aspirin tablets, and can breathe like I am supposed to. I think I will try the flooding again, but will wait until I have a weekend to recover over. Strangely enough, the burnt toast smell in my nose has been replaced with a bleach smell. Better, I guess. Comparing my experience to yours and others, I did not have the burning, and it was easiest to sit down on my knees, lean forward and put the top of my head on the floor with a towel under my face. I am too old to try to lean over the bathtub. There was no leaking into my ears ( a main concern of mine due to my deafness), and it did dribble a bit on my face, but no biggie. I held it until my knees began to gripe at me, and lifted the towel to my nose, and slowly sat upright and stood up. Then I leaned over the sink and let it drain out as best as it would. The crummy feeling came on rather quickly after that. I did notice that I could 'hear' fluid crackling in my nose where you would pinch it at the bridge. I suppose I should define what I mean by crummy: I felt like I had the flu, along with the nausea from all that fluid. But it is going away, and I suppose I should have expected worse. A person washes loose many years of accumulation, and who knows what is in it? It's poisonous, for sure. I do still have some pressure in my head that says it wants to be a sinus headache, so all is not as perfect as I want it to be, but things are definately better. Thank you for going out on a limb and posting your information. I do know for a fact I would have gone to urgent care if I hadn't have read your posts. I couldn't take much more of the pain and pressure. Enough of my novel, I will go now.
burf7

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 01-27-2005, 05:16 PM   #182
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Machaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Laud
Posts: 4,009
Blog Entries: 22
Machaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burf7
I have had sinus problems since I was in my early teens (broken nose was the source) and have been deaf in one ear all my life due to ear infections as a baby. No stranger to pain.

I had sinus surgery in '96 to remove bone shards and repair some of the damage the unhealed broken nose had caused, which ended the constant migranes and helped drain the plugged sinuses. In the past couple of years, my sinuses have gone back to being plugged, and slightly bloody, but the two most irritating things are the bad smell in my sinuses and the pressure of them not draining.
Sounds like you've gone through many years contending with some miserable health problems.

Quote:
I have had scans and x-rays, that say there seems to be no infection, but my body is telling me otherwise.
There are many articles about "dormant" infections, which can create much misery. Also there is much about germs that is not yet known. Your body is saying that there is something wrong, and the fact that our broken health care system can't properly diagnose your problems, does not surprise me.

Quote:
So, when the pain from my sinuses became unbearable, I got on the internet and started researching solutions, and here I am. I tried your flooding method, and had good and bad results instantly. Mainly, the pain and swelling in my sinuses was relieved in moments, and I can function much better.
There has been feedback from others that the flooding almost instantly relieved pain in certain areas. Usually there is MORE pain, before there is pain relief. Also....... peroxide acts as a decongestant, but the reduced swelling is usually only temporary.

Quote:
But on the downside, ...
Sorry. I have to stop you here. No downsides allowed on this thread!

Quote:
But on the downside, I wish I had done it on a friday night so I could recover over the weekend. My nose and my face right behind my nose became hot to the touch, and there was some pressure there that said that all the fluid did not drain out.
Wow! Yours was the first feedback that expressed a problem with heat. There must have been quite a few damaged, raw areas behind your nose to create that much heat. When Hydrogen Peroxide comes into contact with catalase, it causes a lot of foaming and some heat. Catalase can be found in damaged cells and blood, among other things. The fact that you experienced a lot of heat means to me that the peroxide was VERY active. To me, that is a good sign. Usually, when there is a strange reaction within the nasal passages, such as localized, sharp pain, there is also relief that follows.

Quote:
I started sneezing and couldn't stop, and then my nose started draining out the fluid in such quantities that a lot went down the back of my throat and into my stomach. I felt swollen and crummy for most of the past five days, ...
I hate to hear that you suffered such additional misery. Sorry about that!

Quote:
... but I also think that all of the bacteria and stuff that washed out exposed me to all the stuff that was hiding out in my sinuses.
Hopefully you are right. Antibiotics will not work against germs that are in sinus debris. If you have damaged, raw areas, those debris germs just keep on spreading and keep on causing injury. The powerful mixture of peroxide and baking soda will kill most germs that it comes into contact with, and the flooding will loosen up and wash out crusted junk that could have been in there for a long time.

Quote:
This morning I took two sinus-and-aspirin tablets, and can breathe like I am supposed to.
How is the sinus pain? Is it still better?

Quote:
I think I will try the flooding again, but will wait until I have a weekend to recover over.
I almost feel like talking you out of it. You went through five days of increased misery. What makes you want to try it again?

Quote:
Strangely enough, the burnt toast smell in my nose has been replaced with a bleach smell. Better, I guess.
Hmmm!? I've never thought about it, but I get a smell from the peroxide and baking soda, each time I do a flooding, and it lasts for quite a few days.

Quote:
Comparing my experience to yours and others, I did not have the burning, and it was easiest to sit down on my knees, lean forward and put the top of my head on the floor with a towel under my face. I am too old to try to lean over the bathtub. There was no leaking into my ears ( a main concern of mine due to my deafness), and it did dribble a bit on my face, but no biggie. I held it until my knees began to gripe at me, and lifted the towel to my nose, and slowly sat upright and stood up. Then I leaned over the sink and let it drain out as best as it would.
Thanks for the detailed description of your experience. Did you get a lot of foam?

Quote:
The crummy feeling came on rather quickly after that. I did notice that I could 'hear' fluid crackling in my nose where you would pinch it at the bridge.
I am not a sinus expert, or a doctor, but it sure sounds like there could have been significant damaged and raw areas relative to your ethmoid sinuses.

Quote:
I suppose I should define what I mean by crummy: I felt like I had the flu, along with the nausea from all that fluid. But it is going away, and I suppose I should have expected worse.
That "flu like" feeling is normal from a sinus flooding with peroxide. The peroxide irritates the sinuses. When the sinuses get irritated, hormones get pumped into the body which cause this "flu like" feeling.

Quote:
A person washes loose many years of accumulation, and who knows what is in it? It's poisonous, for sure. I do still have some pressure in my head that says it wants to be a sinus headache, so all is not as perfect as I want it to be, but things are definately better.
Hopefully that sinus headache still hasn't come on. It's great to hear that you have experienced an improvement.

Quote:
Thank you for going out on a limb and posting your information.
Thanks for the comment. The worst part of this is the guilt when someone's sinus misery is made worse, especially if they do not experience any significant improvement.

Quote:
I do know for a fact I would have gone to urgent care if I hadn't have read your posts. I couldn't take much more of the pain and pressure. Enough of my novel, I will go now.
burf7
Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed and descriptive account of your experience with the sinus flooding. It really helps others, who are trying to decide whether or not a sinus flooding could help to treat their sinus infection misery. And...... by sharing information we all learn more, and learn alternative methods for doing a flooding.

I look forward to your next post. Best regards!

Last edited by Machaon; 01-27-2005 at 05:23 PM.

 
Old 01-27-2005, 07:14 PM   #183
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 130
hoffta HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Beerzoids states: It puzzles me that your ENT would say something like that. Your own body's white cells produce hydrogen peroxide in order to combat infection. Hydrogen Peroxide is a normal anti-bacterial function of everyone's immune system.
I have never heard of the white blood cells producing hydrogen peroxide. Where did you find this information? Using hydrogen peroxide to cleanse wounds is no longer used or advised in the medical community for the reasons I posted earlier. The hydrogen peroxide kills all cells good and bad. It does not target just the bad cells, but all cells. I would be afraid to advise people of this procedure for one reason...If they have an infection and it is staph they will be spreading this not only throughout the nasal cavity but into the brain, the throat, the ears, and any other cavity in the head. I would think this would be a rather risky procedure. Just my opinion of course.

Last edited by Administrator; 02-01-2005 at 10:47 PM.

 
Old 01-28-2005, 08:49 AM   #184
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Machaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Laud
Posts: 4,009
Blog Entries: 22
Machaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

The bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide, next to me right now, says on it's label: For treatment of minor cuts and abrasions. For use as a gargle or rinse.

And.... uses: First aid to help prevent the risk of infection in minor cuts, scraps and burns. Aids in the removal of phelgm, mucus, or other secretions associated with occasional sore mouth.

Directions for adults and children over 2 years of age or older: Mix with an equal amount of water. Swish around in the mouth over the effected area for at least one minute, and then spit out. Use up to four times daily after meals and at bedtime or as directed by a dentist or doctor.

Last edited by Administrator; 02-02-2005 at 09:25 PM.

 
Old 01-28-2005, 10:31 AM   #185
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1
sspmhm HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Beezoids, what do you recommend if I have tried this flooding and it made me worse? The stuffiness and pressure actually got worse when I did the floodings. The stinging was really unbearable also. A little more background about me - I suffer from many, many allergies and use 3 nasal sprays a day for that. I had the sinus surgery to open up the passages in July of last year. It didn't help at all and I actually had a really bad reaction to the anasthesia which led to severe bronchitis. Anyway, was treated with antibiotics for a sinus infection in earl January, now I have gotten the crud my 2 and 4 year old have had this week, esxcept for me it just turns immediately into a sinus infection. I really don't want to go back to the doctor and spend over $50 again for all the meds, appt, etc. What's your advice? Thanks, Sharon

 
Old 01-28-2005, 11:51 AM   #186
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Machaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Laud
Posts: 4,009
Blog Entries: 22
Machaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sspmhm
Beezoids, what do you recommend if I have tried this flooding and it made me worse?
As with any type of nasal irrigation, if the flooding resulted in the fluid getting into your Eustachian Tubes, or worse, into your middle ear, it could cause problems which could last for a long time. That is my biggest fear from doing the sinus flooding.

I am only a fellow sinus sufferer, who found a way to cure my own recurring, chronic sinus infections, three years ago, by flooding my own sinuses with peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt.

I am not a doctor and I have absolutely no background in health care, other then my own personal experiences.

Quote:
The stuffiness and pressure actually got worse when I did the floodings.
I am sorry that it made you feel worse. Peroxide is very irritating to the sinuses. Many feel like they are getting a cold for about three days after a flooding. But, while it is nasty to the sinuses, it is more than nasty to germs. Hopefully it was able to kill the germs within your nasal passages.

Quote:
The stinging was really unbearable also.
Sorry about that!

That is another common complaint. I try and stay down for at least a couple of minutes. Many can't stay down for long, at all.

How much did you dilute the peroxide? When I first experimented, I used much too much peroxide, it burned my sinuses, and they swelled up much worse for three straight days.

Quote:
A little more background about me - I suffer from many, many allergies and use 3 nasal sprays a day for that. I had the sinus surgery to open up the passages in July of last year. It didn't help at all and I actually had a really bad reaction to the anasthesia which led to severe bronchitis.
You have lived many years with sinus misery. That can be almost disabling. I had sinus surgery and felt great for about six months, and then my sinus problems came back with a vengeance!

Quote:
Anyway, was treated with antibiotics for a sinus infection in earl January, now I have gotten the crud my 2 and 4 year old have had this week, esxcept for me it just turns immediately into a sinus infection.
So........ now you are not only faced with raising two young ones, and taking care of your home, but you have to do that while feeling miserable. Do you think that you currently have a sinus infection? How do you know when you get a sinus infection? Where does your sinus infection usually attack? Over your eyes? Between or under your eyes? Beneath your cheek bones? What type of pain do you get with a sinus infection, and where?

Why I ask is that the sinus flooding seems to be effective at killing germs within the nasal passages, including the turbinates, but not too effective when it comes to killing germs in the sinus cavities, which are much harder to reach with an anti-infective like peroxide.

Quote:
I really don't want to go back to the doctor and spend over $50 again for all the meds, appt, etc. What's your advice? Thanks, Sharon
It was only after two years of sinus floodings, that I first started posting about it on the Internet. It took me two "infection free" years to really understand what had happened.

The first thing that a flooding with peroxide does, besides irritate the hell out of your sinuses, is it kills harmful germs anywhere that it can get to, within the nasal passages. If the flooding is able to kill an infection, the infection leaves raw, damaged, injured sinus membranes, which are then easily exposed to re-infection. That is one reason why people continuously get re-infected after a round of antibiotics. As long as the sinus membranes are raw and damaged by a previous infection, they will keep on infecting time after time.

It took me six months of "infrequent" floodings before my sinus discharge changed from thick, yellow/green, to clear and fluid. I think that it took my sinuses six months of infrequent floodings to totally heal from the previous infection.

For my next post, I will re-post a log that I took during my experimenting with peroxide sinus floodings.

Last edited by Machaon; 01-28-2005 at 11:52 AM.

 
Old 01-28-2005, 11:57 AM   #187
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Machaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Laud
Posts: 4,009
Blog Entries: 22
Machaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB UserMachaon HB User
Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

This represents my log depicting my actual experiences, when I was trying to find a cure for my sinus infections with 3% hydrogen peroxide.

This log was taken right after I just got off ten days of Amoxicillin for a sinus infection. I thought that my sinus infection was fixed. My sinus infections start with pressure in one or both sinuses, which doesnít go away and then continues to get worse. Iíve had surgery in my right sinus, which has left scarring, so my right sinus gives me most of my problems with infections.

My log said:
"Day 1: 9:10pm Sinus pressure, right side, DAMN! Right sinus closed. 1 part peroxide to 10 parts water/baking soda treatment tonight. 2 irrigations. 1st one very bloody. 10 parts water to 1 part peroxide. Added a 3rd irrigation no foam, no blood"

"Day 2: 12:40pm, feel better. did a 4th irrigation. Added double pinch of baking soda."

"Day 2: nighttime: Damn. Right sinus closed ALL NIGHT!"

"Day 3: 9am. feel better. 1pm Did another 1 part peroxide to 10 parts water, with baking soda irrigation. Lots of foam. Sinuses more open after treatment. 4:53pm feel good all day. Did 2nd peroxide/baking soda irrigation. Foamed quite a bit. Did not blow nose for 8 minutes after irrigation. Seemed to help clean out gunk. Sinuses feel more open"

"Day 4: 7:53am. morning. Right sinus closed. 10:44am. did another peroxide/baking soda irrigation. 2:07pm. 2nd peroxide/baking soda irrigation, lots of foam, did 3rd peroxide/baking soda irrigation. Added pinch of salt. 1 part peroxide to 20 parts water. Lots of foam"

"Day 5: 6am. Sinus better in morning. more open. 7:31am Sinus VERY GOOD!!! Did another peroxide with two pinches of baking soda and added one pinch of salt. 1 part Peroxide to 20 parts water. Foamed but not as much. 3pm. Sinuses open today. 1st day open! nighttime-- sinus a bit stuffy again"

"Day 6: 7:52am. Sinus stuffy. No treatments today"

"Day 7: Sinus OK. 1pm another peroxide/one pinch baking soda/one pinch salt, 1 part peroxide to 20 parts water, irrigation. 6:05pm - Sinuses feel GREAT!!!"

"Day 8: sinus little stuffy. No irrigations today."

"Day 9: no irrigations today"

"Day 10: sinus feels great. Did an irrigation, peroxide/one pinch baking soda/one pinch salt. 1 part peroxide to 20 parts water. Foamed again. Sinus discharge really clean"

"Day 11: sinuses good."

"Day 12: no irrigations"

"Day 13: 1 part peroxide to 20 parts water/one pinch baking soda/one pinch salt - discharge is red. slight foam."

"Day 14-20 no irrigations"

"Day 21: 1 part peroxide to 20 parts water/one pinch baking soda/one pinch salt irrigation"

"Day 22-27 no irrigations"

"Day 28 Two peroxide irrigations, (1 part peroxide to 15 parts water)/baking soda/salt irrigations."

"next 87 days --- no irrigations."

"next day, day 88, sinus stuffy for 3rd day in a row (sinuses closing up). Slight Asthma. One peroxide/baking soda/salt irrigation."

Hope this log of my experiences with sinus flooding helps.

 
Old 01-30-2005, 11:07 PM   #188
mle mle is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1
mle HB User
I benefitted from waiting 3 hrs for a specialist as well

One comment on the dispute:

The recommended solution was a maximum of 0.003 H202. There is no evidence that shows that concentration to be damaging to healthy human cells, used occasionally. 3% diluted 10x.

Perhaps using pure H2O2 would be better -- the impurities in commercial H202 could be a problem if swallowed frequently.

[QUOTE=gjzhoff]I gladly wait the three hours to see this physician. You obviously have not been to a physician in some time. At the local level, I must wait up to two/three months to be seen by an ENT. I travel two hours to see this physician because I know if I get sick today, I can get an appointment to see him within the week. If I have to wait three hours to see him because he is running behind or has had an emergency, then I gladly wait. He does not just treat patients with sinus problems but brain tumors and other diseases. His patients think fondly of him and he is in great demand. I am sorry that the medical community has disappointed you. I cannot say that I am healed from my latest surgery, but I suffer with many allergies and feel my problems cannot be cured by simply flooding my sinuses a few times a month.


I admire your courage entering the nursing profession now. There are scary diseases, biological weapons, and unbelievable need for practical relief from every day health issues.

Let me tell you my story:

When I was at my worst, many years ago, I found the best specialist in the region, got an appointment, waited months, drove a long way to get there. The Dr. was hours late. I was exhausted, in pain and unable to contemplate the return journey. At the same time, I had hope that this great doctor would have the answer.

During my wait, I read all the magazines in the dr.'s office, cover to cover. I bless that doc for being late -- I learned so much. It was long before the internet and I had no clue -- all I knew was that I was in pain and couldn't stop it.

After many hours of waiting, I saw the Great Man for 15 minutes. He basically laughed at my problems and said I'd be better in a few months. If not, come see Him again.

I left in tears and barely made it home. I was so depressed. He was supposed to be my answer. After a couple days, I remembered some of the stuff I was reading in the Dr.'s office, and I decided to try it.

It didn't cure my pain, but it helped me manage it. Steam, alternating with cold packs. Nothing fancy, no way to charge for it. But when I hurt, it made me feel better.

No, I never returned to the Great Doctor. I use practical nursing techniques, those practiced over many years by our grandmothers and their grandmothers. There are many treatments that are deeply flawed -- herbs that are carcinogenic, manipulations of seriously injured joints -- lots of horror stories. Let the buyer beware.

The good news is that I am 20+ years older and feeling much better!

If you ever work for a Great Doctor, please help him/her understand that he/she is not God. Doctors can perform miracles -- but they need to retain that curiosity and willingness to learn to help them draw ideas from the hundreds of people who are desperate enough to experiment on themselves.

The medical profession should reward doctors who do clinical trials of "home remedy" techniques. Double blind studies of upside-down sinus flushing, using salt & baking soda, with and without highly diluted H2O2. Might help to have a control group that takes only normal medicinal therapy.

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
2nd sinus infection this year bebe1983 Sinus Problems 6 02-07-2009 01:03 AM
Please help me preventing another sinus infection Gab2000 Sinus Problems 11 09-17-2008 11:08 AM
Question re: upside down method sinus flooding jv_2004 Sinus Problems 2 03-15-2005 03:47 PM
Sinus Infection - my treatment, lousy results, comments? adam2000 Sinus Problems 5 12-27-2004 06:15 AM
allergies and sinus problems PMH Sinus Problems 18 10-17-2004 04:29 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Sign Up Today!

Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

I want my free account

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:39 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!