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Old 05-05-2004, 07:40 AM   #46
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alansordo
I have been reading all the information and feedback on this topic. I've been having sinus problems for over a year now when I never had them before. I get mostly nasal congestion and pressure at times. At night it becomes difficult to breathe and I feel nauseaus. I am going to start trying the "Upside down sinus flooding to see what happens". Like most of people I went to doctors and the specialist to find out what my problem was. Some of them told me I had sinusitis, others allergies, etc... They prescribed antibiotics, anthistaminics, nasal sprays but nothing has worked for me. I was wondering that maybe my problem could be related to my wisdom teeth. Could this be related??? Ever since I started having the sinusistis symptoms my upper wisdom teeth began to grow although they did not come out normal but sideways as if they were touching my sinus membranes who knows maybe this could be the problem. Anyway if someone has the same problem or recommendations please don't hesitate and write me...

I am going to try the method to see if it works.

By the way I was researching and found out that "Colloidal Silver" as a natural nasal spray could be very effective to treat infections...
Colloidal silver is an effective anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. However, most colloidal silver are not true colloids, and may infact be contaminated or cause more problems than you started with. I suggest you do some more research if you intend on using it. H2o2 has been around for many years, is safe and unadulterated. I buy mine from a local drug store and the only ingredients are hydrogen peroxide and filtered water. When hydrogen peroxide foams, it breaks down into it's constituents water and oxygen. What could be safer?

 
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:25 AM   #47
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabulok
I also have chronic pain in my upper sinus, radiating up into my scalp. Well, surgery sort of cleared most of that up, until about three weeks after. Then, it all went down hill again. Then I tried the sinus irrigation, and to my amazement, most of the pain went away.
Hope you don't mind a couple of questions. Did you use just peroxide, or did you add baking soda and kosher salt to the mix?

Quote:
And even at that diluted strength, the first time was the worst! It did sting, and lots of nasty stuff came out.
Did you just irrigate or did you flood your nasal passages and keep them flooded for a few minutes?

Did you have any side effects, such as the feeling of catching a cold?

At any rate, it's great to hear that you have gotten some relief!

 
Old 05-05-2004, 11:01 AM   #48
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Hey beer...I let the solution sit for a minute or two, until I couldn't stand it anymore, then I blew and blew and blew until I was Blue And then I did it all over again, because I'm a glutten for punishment!!! Actually, it worked so well the first time I figured I'd try it again. And then all night was miserable. Felt like I had a cold, my sinuses hurt. The next day it was all better. I'm not quite sure if this is the best thing for tender sinus membranes, but I'm sick and tired (no pun intended) of relying on some wannabe dr, and I've been to more and spent more than I care to admit, for getting me back to health. If you recall, it wasn't that long ago that, if you had some elixir and nice sign, you could hang it above your store and call yourself a physician! Well, a hundred years later and not much has changed. In answer to your second question, I only used peroxide because at the moment, I don't have any salt without the additives and my baking soda has been around for awhile now. It may have even been in the fridge some time ago, who knows? Don't want to put that up my nose, ya know! Ah, yes, and I have been using a canned, sterile saline solution as a rinse, afterwards. Seems to help with the stinging from the leftover peroxide as it cleans out anything left over from the drenching. I'll keep y'all posted as to how things pan out over here, but for now, it's a gettin' better!!!

Last edited by Mabulok; 05-05-2004 at 11:39 AM.

 
Old 05-05-2004, 12:14 PM   #49
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabulok
Hey beer...I let the solution sit for a minute or two, until I couldn't stand it anymore, then I blew and blew and blew until I was Blue And then I did it all over again, because I'm a glutten for punishment!!! Actually, it worked so well the first time I figured I'd try it again. And then all night was miserable. Felt like I had a cold, my sinuses hurt.
I have been warning people that sinus flooding is not a good alternative for sex.
.

Quote:
The next day it was all better. I'm not quite sure if this is the best thing for tender sinus membranes, ...
It's good for tender membranes, if the membranes have been made tender because of damage from infection. Keeping my sinuses and nasal passages free from infection, by an occasional flooding, allowed my membranes to heal. It took my membranes over six months to heal. How do I know that? Well....... I was still getting a thick, yellow/green discharge for about six months, even though I was fairly sure that I was infection free.

Quote:
... but I'm sick and tired (no pun intended) of relying on some wannabe dr, and I've been to more and spent more than I care to admit, for getting me back to health.
There is nothing more depressing than leaving an ENT's office knowing that he has done absolutely nothing for me than to lighten my wallet, look up my nose, and make me feel that it is MY FAULT that I have sinus problems.

Like you, I went for DECADES with sinus misery. Those days are gone.

Quote:
I'll keep y'all posted as to how things pan out over here, but for now, it's a gettin' better!!!
Do you feel like you are infection free? Are your sinuses still swelling up?

Why do you feel like it is getting better?

Sorry that you went through such a bad night after doing the flooding. It will be interesting reading followup posts from you.

Best of luck!

 
Old 05-07-2004, 10:42 AM   #50
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Okay first of all I haven't posted since the summer after having my wisdom teeth out, but it said "You last visited 12-31-1969" I wasn't even born then! LOL!
Now onto sinus woes - I just had to try this. I have had sinus woes as well, I think I've had clogged sinuses for a few years but didn't really suspect a sinus infection until last fall when my head and face began to hurt. I went on a round of antibiotics in January, thought the problem was solved, it wasn't. Allegra kept me clear in my nostrils but my right sinus always felt off, and a small amount of junk came out now and then that was uglee. March - another round of antibiotics plus steroids. I also started saline irrigation and all KINDS of junk began to come out over that week. Ugly awful looking stuff that looks like months old stuff. Here's the gross description - brownish greenish very thick sticky chunks and sometimes brown chunky things that were like wax. At the end of the meds, my snot was not clear yet even if I felt better to a degree, so I called back and they put me on aNother round of antibiotics. That was final just this past Monday. At that point I was just done with all those stupid meds and I hit the net for alternative remedies. This week I started irrigating using Alkalol diluted with saline. Anyone tried that? It was recommended by two ent dr's but I can reference the page as long as I know we can do that here. I also started taking some various herbal remedies - Nettle Herb, and papaya enzymes. Plus OTC Guaifenesen. Lots of water too. Not all better but not worse. Well today I just HAD to try the peroxide. I read the testimonies, and did a search for peroxide sinus and found the same testimony on so many boards. But I wanted second opinions, third opinions. Then I found a site where a doctor recommended using peroxide. Plus this dr is in TX where I am, PLUS this dr treats fibromyalgia. I don't know if you can reference sites here but the page is online allergy center slash nasalirrigation. So I tried it today. Twice. OUCH it hurts, does it always hurt so bad that my eyes water? No junk or blood, just white or clear. I hope this works, I'm ready to be done with this once and for all. I'll probably repeat the process two more times today if I am feeling brave, and by now I am willing to try just about anything.
Oh and the past week I've had these small chunky brown things that come out now and then. What the heck are those? I heard that is normal from a fellow sinus sufferer but still, ewwww.

Melody who's ready to feel human again.
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:13 AM   #51
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodyanna
So I tried it today. Twice. OUCH it hurts, does it always hurt so bad that my eyes water? No junk or blood, just white or clear. I hope this works, I'm ready to be done with this once and for all.
First of all, sorry that you have gone through so much misery fighting sinus disease. It is an awful experience!

Peroxide is very irritating to the sinuses. It also acts as a decongestant, so after a treatment, you might have found a little relief for a short period of time.

How long were you able to stay down with your nasal passages flooded?

And then..... The big question....... was the anti-infective mixture able to get to the infected area(s)?

Quote:
I'll probably repeat the process two more times today if I am feeling brave, and by now I am willing to try just about anything.
I realize that you are in a hurry to find relief, but you might consider holding up on additional floodings, for a day or two, until you see if the first two flooding did any good. I am worried that additional peroxide flooding, on your already sensitive sinuses, might increase your suffering over the short term.

Best of luck!

 
Old 05-07-2004, 02:59 PM   #52
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

See, I'm not sure how I can tell if any of the stuff gets way up into my sinuses. I've been irrigating for a few weeks now using a bottle designed for irrigating, you squeeze the bellows and it gently squirts water "up there." Maybe not far enough so I could close off the nostril and bend way over so that it would not drain out. I would stay bent over until I felt like I could "feel" it in my upper sinus, then I would come back up and let it drain out into the sink. So I did pretty much the same with the peroxide mixture, but instead used your method of head on a towel in the tub. The towel actually gave me support during the intense part, lol. I stayed upside down for maybe uh a few minutes at the most. I stayed that way until it stopped burning but I wasn't sure how deep it went. Then when I came back up, it oozed out every so slowly instead of trickling out fast like it did with plain saline. I didn't blow too hard because I've done way too much of that in the past so many weeks. Things certainly feel better, not 100% clear but I don't have that achy sinus feeling. It does feel like I need to blow a blob but that's kind of how it's felt off and on for several days. I CAN breathe through both nostrils, but my left is so much more clear feeling than my right, but that has been the case for several days. So I may not know until tomorrow if this is starting to work. Every time I try something and feel relief, then I get excited thinking it works, then the next day I'm back to feeling bad again. So of course I'm afraid to say "I feel better" yet since I don't want to jinx it.
I also heard to eat hot sauce, eat onions, garlic, etc. I got the pace picante sauce with garlic! Yum! It seems to help too. Plus it tastes good.
Oh by the way I don't think the obstruction is too big because I can get saline to run up one and come out the other, in both nostrils. So there is definitely hope.
Crossing fingers hard that this works! I thank you for posting this method, it certainly makes sense.
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:42 PM   #53
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodyanna
So I did pretty much the same with the peroxide mixture, but instead used your method of head on a towel in the tub. The towel actually gave me support during the intense part, lol. I stayed upside down for maybe uh a few minutes at the most. I stayed that way until it stopped burning but I wasn't sure how deep it went.
Did you use the entire contents of the sinus sprayer? Did you spray into both nostrils? Did the liquid come out of the nostril while you were spraying. The reason for the questions is, I was wondering if you were able to flood your nasal passages.

For me, the burning stops after a minute or less. The longer I stay down, the longer the anti-infective mixture gets to seep into swelled up, or blocked areas.

Quote:
Things certainly feel better, not 100% clear but I don't have that achy sinus feeling.
I am glad that you feel better. Let's hope that it isn't just a coincidence.

In my case, the achy feeling is caused by junk that is caught in the nasal passages. The flooding loosens the junk, or crust, and allows it to be discharged. I used to go all night long with achy sinuses. Now, when they get achy, I just do a sinus flooding.

Quote:
So I may not know until tomorrow if this is starting to work. Every time I try something and feel relief, then I get excited thinking it works, then the next day I'm back to feeling bad again. So of course I'm afraid to say "I feel better" yet since I don't want to jinx it.
The anti-infective flooding's main purpose is to help fight against sinus infection. It also helps to clean out the nasal areas. It won't help if the mixture can't get to the infection, and it won't help relieve sinus swelling due to allergy.

I did not know that it would prevent a re-occurrence of my sinus infections until months after I first started experimenting. And....... I didn't start posting about it on the Internet until I was infection free for two years.

After all you've been through, it took a lot of courage for you to try something like this. Let's hope that your efforts reward you with significant improvement!

Regards, and have a nice weekend.

 
Old 05-08-2004, 10:24 PM   #54
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

No I wasn't able to use the whole bottle. I have a tiny head, and tiny nose/nostrils/sinuses. It wouldn't all fit! LOL It was overflowing for the most part. I didn't do the flooding today, only used the diluted recipe from that dr's website. Everything felt worse in the way that I had that pressure feeling, you know how it gets when you have had a cold or allergies for too long and it feels like everything will explode when you bend over? I've had that kind of pressure in my sinuses and ears since yesterday. Plus either my right side or my left side was completely clogged feeling. It hasn't been that clogged since before I took the Allegra-D, and I've been off the allegra-d for several weeks. (Of course now I'm pondering getting back on while this all heals....) Today it wasn't as clogged, just a bit runny and sniffly all day like an allergy attack. Once again, haven't had one of those in months because of Allegra-D. I don't know if the flooding made everything kind of flare up, like it gets worse before it gets better? I hope that's just the case but I may use a more diluted version and work my way up gradually if I continue to stay so clogged. I may take an allegra tomorrow so I won't sound all stuffy for Mother's day at MOm's. I love what the allegra's do for me, but if you haven't been on them long enough then the first week is pure heck of BAD insomnia.
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:27 AM   #55
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodyanna
Everything felt worse in the way that I had that pressure feeling, you know how it gets when you have had a cold or allergies for too long and it feels like everything will explode when you bend over? I've had that kind of pressure in my sinuses and ears since yesterday. Plus either my right side or my left side was completely clogged feeling. It hasn't been that clogged since before I took the Allegra-D, and I've been off the allegra-d for several weeks.
Peroxide is very irritating to the sinuses. When I first started experimenting, I used too much peroxide, and it totally closed up my nose for three days and made me feel like I had a cold. Since I had no idea of what I was doing, I felt sure that I had made my condition worse, so I was depressed and miserable all at the same time. But, at the end of the three days, my sinuses felt better than they had felt in a long time.

Obviously, the peroxide had been able to get to the source of my problem, and had killed some germs or irritants in there. But..... everyone is different. I wish that it would work, as well, for everyone, but it won't.

Quote:
Today it wasn't as clogged, just a bit runny and sniffly all day like an allergy attack. Once again, haven't had one of those in months because of Allegra-D. I don't know if the flooding made everything kind of flare up, like it gets worse before it gets better?
The peroxide won't alleviate, at all, sinus problems caused by allergy. It's main purpose is to kill germs within the nasal passages and sinuses. It's the same concept as pouring peroxide on a scrape on your knee to avoid infection.

Quote:
I may take an allegra tomorrow so I won't sound all stuffy for Mother's day at MOm's. I love what the allegra's do for me, but if you haven't been on them long enough then the first week is pure heck of BAD insomnia.
I hope that you feel great for your mother's day dinner at your moms. Save some pie for me!

 
Old 05-09-2004, 12:15 PM   #56
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Thought I'd post a quick update Beerzoids...I am going to continue with the irrigations! I've done considerable more research on the subject, in fact even finding some physicians touting the benefits of h2o2 as well as sinus irrigation. I do not know for certain if h2o2 causes any ill effects in the long-term, but hey, it can't get any worse than living with chronic sinus pain...I'd cut my nose off to spite my sinuses, while half the establishment would have you believe h2o2 will kill you if they didn't prescribe it and the other half is too meek to be heard. Hey, did you know that doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the us? And this is from a study done by a major journal on american medicine. Check it out.

Everytime I irrigate, the gunk coming out is less in quantity as well as clearer with each successive irrigation, which to me looks like a step in the right direction. And I have begun to use the saline/h2o2/water/sodium bicarb mixture (makes sense to increase salinity/adjust ph) as this is much less irritating and easier to keep down, or up? My frontal sinus pain is now considerably subdued and restricted pretty much to the right side, whereas before my entire forehead felt like I was being scalped alive! Immediately following the irrigation, and for the remainder of the day and part of the next, I do feel as if I have a common cold coming on, while my sinuses are doing strange things. Perhaps it is the leftover solution still reacting with contaminates, coupled with a die-off effect of the fungus or bacteria. At any rate, the other day I felt better than I have in many-many years-it is easy to forget what it's like to feel good!!! I'm eternally grateful I stumbled onto your post (have seen it on several boards as a matter of fact), and for anyone contemplating this, my only suggestion would be "only you know what is best for you". And remember, your physician is simply another tool for you to use in "MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS ABOUT YOUR HEALTH".

 
Old 05-10-2004, 03:32 PM   #57
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabulok
I do not know for certain if h2o2 causes any ill effects in the long-term, but hey, it can't get any worse than living with chronic sinus pain...I'd cut my nose off to spite my sinuses, while half the establishment would have you believe h2o2 will kill you if they didn't prescribe it and the other half is too meek to be heard.
Well put!

I am looking at a brown bottle of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. It says to mix with an equal amount of water. Swish around in the mouth over the affected area for AT LEAST one minute and then spit out. Use up to four times daily.

3% Hydrogen Peroxide is inexpensive and has huge sales. There are stacks of Hydrogen Peroxide in many stores. Millions of people use it often. I would think that if there was a significant health hazard to 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, we would have heard something by now.

Quote:
Hey, did you know that doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in the us? And this is from a study done by a major journal on american medicine. Check it out.
It is not only embarrassing to know that there are many incompetent doctors out there, as you have just posted, it is also dangerous.

Quote:
My frontal sinus pain is now considerably subdued and restricted pretty much to the right side, whereas before my entire forehead felt like I was being scalped alive! Immediately following the irrigation, and for the remainder of the day and part of the next, I do feel as if I have a common cold coming on, while my sinuses are doing strange things. Perhaps it is the leftover solution still reacting with contaminates, coupled with a die-off effect of the fungus or bacteria.
I am not a doctor, nor an expert, so here comes a cheap, non-professional opinion:

When the sinuses are irritated, by infection, gunk or crust, glands pour chemicals (hormones) into the body that cause a cold-like feeling. Peroxide irritates the sinuses. Usually the "cold-like" feeling goes away as the sinuses start to improve, unless there is too much peroxide being used.

Infection causes injury to the sinuses and nasal passages and the turbinates. Once there are wounds within these areas, it takes a long time for them to heal, and these wounds or injuries, are subject to constant attack by bacteria, fungus or viruses. That might explain one reason why a sinus infection re-occurs after the antibiotic is stopped.

What is great about the "upside down sinus flooding" is that it can keep the wounds from re-infecting until the wounds heal. For me, it took at least six months until my sinuses, nasal passages and turbinates were completely healed. But, that was after 20+ years of damage, so it might not take that long for others.

About your right frontal pain? Do you think that the right frontal sinus might have an entrenched infection which might need an antibiotic. Or, might it just be that there is more damage to the right side? Does it seem to be getting better each time you flood your sinuses?

Quote:
At any rate, the other day I felt better than I have in many-many years-it is easy to forget what it's like to feel good!!! I'm eternally grateful I stumbled onto your post (have seen it on several boards as a matter of fact),
It is great getting this type of feedback!

I need to update the documentation to reflect what I have learned in the past six months, but have been putting it off because I didn't think that anyone really cared. Perhaps your note will get me off my duff!?

Quote:
... and for anyone contemplating this, my only suggestion would be "only you know what is best for you". And remember, your physician is simply another tool for you to use in "MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS ABOUT YOUR HEALTH".
Well put. Anyone who has any health test, and does not take a copy of the test results home with them to study, is not doing as much as they can to help themselves get better.
.

Last edited by Machaon; 05-10-2004 at 03:36 PM.

 
Old 05-11-2004, 10:01 AM   #58
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Thanks for the emotional support, beerzoids! In answer to your question about my right side...today I sneezed for about 3 minutes, until to my amazement I blasted out this silver-dollar-sized blob of brown crap from my left nostrile. And mind you, my sinuses have been blowing clear for about two weeks now! What's up with that? Yes, my right sinus is still infected, but I'm fairly certain it won't be for long. Just for the record, I saw my ent yesterday and he was quite speechless at the fact there were no scabs, or anything for that matter, in my sinuses! I didn't mention the irrigations because frankly, I answer only to myself...I don't need permission!!! I keep reminding myself, I didn't acquire it in a day, and I won't get rid of it in a day...variation on the Rome theme!

Last edited by Mabulok; 05-11-2004 at 10:04 AM.

 
Old 05-11-2004, 12:59 PM   #59
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabulok
Thanks for the emotional support, beerzoids! In answer to your question about my right side...today I sneezed for about 3 minutes, until to my amazement I blasted out this silver-dollar-sized blob of brown crap from my left nostrile. And mind you, my sinuses have been blowing clear for about two weeks now! What's up with that?
I had similar experiences and it confused me. My quess is that there is crust and junk stuck in the sinuses. Repeated floodings help to soften up the crud or junk until it finally comes out. Crud stuck up in the sinuses can create nasty and continuous sinus problems, including aching, swelling and cold-like feelings.

Quote:
Yes, my right sinus is still infected, but I'm fairly certain it won't be for long.
It'll be interesting to follow along with you and see how well your right frontal sinus does.

Quote:
Just for the record, I saw my ent yesterday and he was quite speechless at the fact there were no scabs, or anything for that matter, in my sinuses! I didn't mention the irrigations because frankly, I answer only to myself...I don't need permission!!!
If he asks you to explain to him, why your sinuses are improving, tell him to get an appointment with your secretary and you might be able to see him in a week or two, in order to explain it to him.

Quote:
I keep reminding myself, I didn't acquire it in a day, and I won't get rid of it in a day...variation on the Rome theme!
Many sinus sufferers have little hope. They just suffer day, after day, after day. The "Upside Down Sinus Flooding" with peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt, at least provides some hope, and a chance to take some control over one's sinus disease.

I like your attitude about doctors. They work for us. We pay them. I always find myself being very careful not to offend my doctors and ENTs. They certainly don't like to be questioned. It's almost like a parent/child relationship, where the "all-knowing" doctor must be heard, and the child (patient) must not be heard.

They seem to want to blame the patient for the patient's disease, especially when they can't help you.

Sinus doctors would hate the "Upside Down Sinus Flooding". It takes business away from them. As long as they can keep their patients in misery, they get a monthly paycheck.

 
Old 05-12-2004, 06:00 AM   #60
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

I also get those cold like symtoms after I flood. In your opinion, should I keep doing it every day or wait until the symtoms go away?

 
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