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Old 05-12-2004, 07:17 AM   #61
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisyheadmaisy
I also get those cold like symtoms after I flood. In your opinion, should I keep doing it every day or wait until the symptoms go away?
Have you noticed any change in your sinus condition since you started doing the floodings? Has there been any improvement? Any decrease in sinus pain or headaches?

You first started posting about trying the sinus flooding in January. Have you been doing it every day since then? I am not sure if daily floodings are a good idea. I've been doing the floodings for about 30 months, and I have averaged less than two floodings per month. I can't remember the last time that I did a sinus flooding.

Sinus floodings will not relieve sinus problems due to allergies. It will help to reduce symptoms from crud, crust and junk stuck in the sinuses, and it can kill germs and some infections within the sinuses.

Peroxide can irritate the sinuses. If you are doing it on a daily basis, it might be making you feel worse, rather than helping you.

It may be a good idea for you to quit the floodings for a while and then see if these past sinus flooding have helped you.

What do you think?

 
Old 05-12-2004, 08:03 AM   #62
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
Have you noticed any change in your sinus condition since you started doing the floodings? Has there been any improvement? Any decrease in sinus pain or headaches?

You first started posting about trying the sinus flooding in January. Have you been doing it every day since then? I am not sure if daily floodings are a good idea. I've been doing the floodings for about 30 months, and I have averaged less than two floodings per month. I can't remember the last time that I did a sinus flooding.

Sinus floodings will not relieve sinus problems due to allergies. It will help to reduce symptoms from crud, crust and junk stuck in the sinuses, and it can kill germs and some infections within the sinuses.

Peroxide can irritate the sinuses. If you are doing it on a daily basis, it might be making you feel worse, rather than helping you.

It may be a good idea for you to quit the floodings for a while and then see if these past sinus flooding have helped you.

What do you think?
I did the flooding every day for only about 3 days. Then I tired it again a week or later, and the same cold thing happened. Then I stopped because of the cold like symptoms. It didn't seem like it was helping because I was having those cold like symptoms, but I was also using table salt. Right now I have a bad sinus cold (or at least that's what I think it is). It started with a very sore throat and continued to a very runny and stuffy nose. I also have sinus pain in my face. This happens to me about 2 -3 times a year. I am going to use kosher salt and less peroxide and see if it helps. Thanks

 
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:31 AM   #63
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daisyheadmaisy
I did the flooding every day for only about 3 days. Then I tired it again a week or later, and the same cold thing happened. Then I stopped because of the cold like symptoms. It didn't seem like it was helping because I was having those cold like symptoms, but I was also using table salt.
The salt is the least important part of the mixture. Until you get Kosher Salt, you might consider leaving out the salt. Bacteria doesn't like salt. That is why meat is treated with salt, to keep backteria away.

If it doesn't seem to be helping, then you have got to decide the value of the sinus floodings to your sinus condition. Now that you know how to do one, and feel comfortable doing a sinus flooding, then at least you have a tool that you can use any time you want, if you feel it will help you.

Quote:
Right now I have a bad sinus cold (or at least that's what I think it is). It started with a very sore throat and continued to a very runny and stuffy nose. I also have sinus pain in my face. This happens to me about 2 -3 times a year. I am going to use kosher salt and less peroxide and see if it helps. Thanks
Sorry to hear that you are fighting cold like, or allergy symptoms. That is such a royal pain!

In my case, if the sore throat is in the top, or back of my throat, it usually is just my sinuses acting up. If it is the front or bottom of my throat then it could be a cold or infection.

When did your cold symptoms start? Have you done anything different, or eaten anything different in the past three days? If this is an allergy flairup, and not a cold, then one, two, three, four, five or more allergens have attacked you in the past few days, that weren't there before.

Just my humble opinion. Hope that you feel much better very soon!

 
Old 05-12-2004, 08:08 PM   #64
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
The salt is the least important part of the mixture. Until you get Kosher Salt, you might consider leaving out the salt. Bacteria doesn't like salt. That is why meat is treated with salt, to keep backteria away.

If it doesn't seem to be helping, then you have got to decide the value of the sinus floodings to your sinus condition. Now that you know how to do one, and feel comfortable doing a sinus flooding, then at least you have a tool that you can use any time you want, if you feel it will help you.



Sorry to hear that you are fighting cold like, or allergy symptoms. That is such a royal pain!

In my case, if the sore throat is in the top, or back of my throat, it usually is just my sinuses acting up. If it is the front or bottom of my throat then it could be a cold or infection.

When did your cold symptoms start? Have you done anything different, or eaten anything different in the past three days? If this is an allergy flairup, and not a cold, then one, two, three, four, five or more allergens have attacked you in the past few days, that weren't there before.

Just my humble opinion. Hope that you feel much better very soon!
Thanks for the reply! My "cold" started on Sunday. I was laying by the pool and started sneezing and my nose got runny, then my throat got sore. My sore throat was at the back of my throat. I think it's my sinuses draining or something. Now it feels fine, my voice just has that sick sound to it. I am not blowing my nose as much either. Its slowly going away. When I do blow my nose, it's clear, so that's good. I don't know if it's allergies or sinus. Is there a difference? I usually get really bad pressure headaches when it is raining. Someone told me that could mean I have a mold allergy or something. But it doesn't happen every time it rains. I have been on Allegra D before, but had to stop because it made me have anxiety. I just deal with the "cold" a few times a year and take Tylenol Sinus and stuff like that. I wish I could just figure out what was going on with it. After all of the talk on here about doctors and allergist and how nothing gets solved, it doesn't motivate me to go see the doctor about it. I don't want to be put on a bunch of meds, I just want to know what the problem is. I haven't eaten or been around anything different these past few days. It seems to come on out of nowhere. Also, since I was young, one side of my nose is always a little stuffy. If I lay on my side, then it drains to the other nostril. It's very odd. Thanks for all the input!

 
Old 05-13-2004, 11:45 AM   #65
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Well I'm still flooding but still using the diluted recipe. It doesn't burn so much that way. It seems to be helping, I mean the junk that comes out over the course of the day is much less, much clearer and softer. But it's been doing that gradually for weeks anyway. I'd like to say I think it's getting better. I'm still taking nettle herbs, papaya enzymes and now taking ecinecea/golden seal to boost my immune. I'd like to prevent having to go on anymore antibiotics if at all possible. Three rounds is quite enough. My sinus headaches aren't as present as they were, I get a now and then ache but not all day every day. The pressure feeling isn't so bad either. Only a little bit each day. I am still taking one Allegra-D per day and two Guaifenessen pills per day. I do have allergies but Allegra-D leaves me clear as a bell. So that helps clear out old gunk. Allergies for three years and a bad cold last October are what initially led to this sinus infection. We moved out "to the country" if you will, the summer of 2001 and my nose clogged up and stayed that way until January when I got on Allegra D. So I assume all that time being clogged let gunk build up way up in there. One round of antibiotics in January, then two in April got most of that gunk out, plus regular saline irrigations helped a lot. But the flooding seems to be helping get the gunk way up in there. I HOPE anyway! I do it regularly with the diluted stuff mainly because of how I sound when I sing "nnnnnnnnnnnn" you can still hear that nasaly sound. Not bad, but that's kind of my sinus meter. I also started humming, I read that somewhere that humming can help the sinuses and respiratory track. The cats think I'm insane! But when you hum, you can feel it vibrate in your sinuses. That has to help at least a little.
My chiro always presses on the sinuses and he will tell me what he feels. He said it's a LOT less swolen but still a little that needs help to get moving in there.
Anyway that's my update. Oh I did use a little more peroxide with this latest batch of fluid, hoping that will help some. This mixture is a lot less painful even though it may take longer to heal, I can at least tolerate it.
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:31 PM   #66
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Just wanted to post an update for anyone that may find it useful.

I've found an aggressive approach works best for me. Some days I will do 2 irrigations, others only one. It depends on how much time I have to spend "laid up" with the post-irrigation symptoms, which, by the way are decreasing with each irrigation! Following my initial, and quite episodal expungement of the first "brown blob of crap", I have had only sproadic instances of anything with any color. My left frontal sinuses feel good, not great but good. I did have an instance of "brown blob of crap" from my right sinus as well the other day, and in about the same proportions as the left. Today, my left sinus eliminated a pure white, rather foamy substance that left me feeling much better. I can tell my right sinuses need more work. I'm going to capture some of this gunk and have my ent test it for microbes to determine exactly what it is...I'll keep you posted. I am now CERTAIN that my sinus pain is due to some foreign matter either growing or built up in my sinuses, and with each passing day it is getting better-increased energy and no headache, just a dull pain in the right sinus now. And yes, I am quite nasally for a day following the irrigation, which is to be expected. I forgot to mention earlier that I've also been plagued with popping ears, and now it is only affecting my right ear. Another good sign! Anyway's, just thought I'd let you all know how it's going. Happy irrigating

 
Old 05-13-2004, 03:23 PM   #67
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodyanna
Well I'm still flooding but still using the diluted recipe. It doesn't burn so much that way.
What is the "diluted" recipe?

Quote:
It seems to be helping, I mean the junk that comes out over the course of the day is much less, much clearer and softer. But it's been doing that gradually for weeks anyway. I'd like to say I think it's getting better.
So...... you're seeing continuous sinus improvement but you are not really sure how much the sinus flooding has to do with it?

Quote:
My sinus headaches aren't as present as they were, I get a now and then ache but not all day every day. The pressure feeling isn't so bad either. Only a little bit each day.
Good to hear that you are feeling better. Do you feel that the sinus flooding helped to relieve your sinus headaches, ache and pressure, or do you feel that it was just coincidence or the herbs that you are taking?

Quote:
One round of antibiotics in January, then two in April got most of that gunk out, plus regular saline irrigations helped a lot. But the flooding seems to be helping get the gunk way up in there. I HOPE anyway!
The combination of peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt is not only an incredibly powerful anti-infective, it is also great at loosening up crud, crust and junk stuck in the sinuses. What amazed me was the junk that would come out months after I started with the sinus flooding. That junk did not get in there overnight. It must have been in there for a long time.

Quote:
I do it regularly with the diluted stuff mainly because of how I sound when I sing "nnnnnnnnnnnn" you can still hear that nasaly sound. Not bad, but that's kind of my sinus meter. I also started humming, I read that somewhere that humming can help the sinuses and respiratory track. The cats think I'm insane!
I'll let you in on a little secret. The cats are not the only ones!

Quote:
My chiro always presses on the sinuses and he will tell me what he feels. He said it's a LOT less swolen but still a little that needs help to get moving in there.
Do you feel that the sinus flooding is helping to reduce your sinus swelling?

Quote:
Anyway that's my update.
Thanks for taking the time to post such a comprehensive update.

Quote:
Oh I did use a little more peroxide with this latest batch of fluid, hoping that will help some. This mixture is a lot less painful even though it may take longer to heal, I can at least tolerate it.
Did you mean a "little less" rather than a "little more"? The more peroxide that you use the more it could sting. How much peroxide are you using?

You sound like you feel better and are doing better. That is great! I hope you continue to improve. Oh. I almost forgot............ Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 
Old 05-13-2004, 03:51 PM   #68
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabulok
I've found an aggressive approach works best for me. Some days I will do 2 irrigations, others only one. It depends on how much time I have to spend "laid up" with the post-irrigation symptoms, which, by the way are decreasing with each irrigation!
I don't know if the reason for the decreasing irritation is because your nasal/sinus membranes are healing or if they are just toughening up. What is your opinion?

Quote:
My left frontal sinuses feel good, not great but good. I did have an instance of "brown blob of crap" from my right sinus as well the other day, and in about the same proportions as the left.
I had yellow/green thick discharge for around six months after I started my first sinus flooding. I knew that the infection was gone because my sinuses were not swelling shut anymore. I really believe that the yellow/green thick, ugly globs were being caused by damaged sinus/nasal membranes. After they healed, the discharge became clean and watery.

But....... "brown glob of crap"? Is that coming out because of damaged sinuses or because there is junk stuck up there, or both?

Quote:
I am now CERTAIN that my sinus pain is due to some foreign matter either growing or built up in my sinuses, and with each passing day it is getting better-increased energy and no headache, just a dull pain in the right sinus now. And yes, I am quite nasally for a day following the irrigation, which is to be expected. I forgot to mention earlier that I've also been plagued with popping ears, and now it is only affecting my right ear. Another good sign! Anyway's, just thought I'd let you all know how it's going. Happy irrigating
How much peroxide are you using to how much water? Are you using more than one part peroxide to ten parts water?

The improvement in the popping of your ears is a surprise. You are the first to feedback any improvement in the pressure or popping of ears. The opening to the Eustachian Tubes is near the back of the throat, almost even with the nostrils. The opening is normally closed. The opening must open once in a while to equalize the pressure in the middle ear.

I am guessing that the opening to your Eustachian Tube on the left side has been cleared of junk because of the sinus flooding. What do you think?

There is a good side to that and a bad side. If, indeed, the flooding has cleared the opening to the Eustachian Tube, that is a good thing, but that means the the fluid may be coming into contact with the area around the opening. If so, while your sinuses are flooded, an accidental swallowing, hickcup, yawn, jaw movement, chewing, etc., could open the Eustachian Tube and allow peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt to go in through the opening. That could cause additional, unwanted problems.

Just some things for you to think about.

Great feedback, as always. Thanks!
.

Last edited by Machaon; 05-13-2004 at 03:53 PM.

 
Old 05-13-2004, 04:36 PM   #69
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Does this procedure work well for the maxillary sinuses? And if so, how do I know when I get fluid into that sinus? Will I feel it? Because I have been using Simply Saline, which is just a preservative free salt & water solution, and I dont' know if i'm getting anything in there. I tilt my head down a bit, and slightly to the side of the infected sinus.

Any tips would be appreciated!

 
Old 05-13-2004, 06:04 PM   #70
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fflewddar
Does this procedure work well for the maxillary sinuses? And if so, how do I know when I get fluid into that sinus? Will I feel it?
I don't know if it is possible to flood the maxillary sinuses with the peroxide, baking soda and Kosher salt mixture. And..... if you can get the anti-infective mixture into the Maxillary sinuses, I don't know if it is possible to drain the mixture back out.

The opening to the Maxillary Sinuses is directly after the first turbinate, and enters the Maxillary Sinus cavity sideways beneath the cheek bone.

James123 tried to flood his Maxillary Sinuses, and provided some feedback regarding how he was doing. Unfortunately, he stopped posting notes, so I have no idea how well he is doing. During his last few posts, he had experienced remarkable improvement in his sinus disease, because of the sinus flooding with peroxide, baking soda and Kosher salt, and was attempting to treat the infection in his Maxillary Sinus.

I posted my concern, to James123, about the fact that he was tilting his head in order to get the anti-infective mixture into his Maxillaries. I was worried that, with the head tilted to the side, it could increase the exposure of a Eustachian Tube Opening to the anti-infective mixture. When the sinuses are flooded, with any liquid, one has to be very careful not to swallow, hiccup, move the jaw, chew or yawn, or the opening to the Eustachian Tube will open, and allow liquid to flow into the Tube.

Here are a few of James123's notes about his experiences with sinus flooding, and his attempt to flood his Maxillary Sinus.

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=780865#post780865[/url]

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=791990#post791990[/url]

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=802112#post802112[/url]

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=803909#post803909[/url]

Quote:
Because I have been using Simply Saline, which is just a preservative free salt & water solution, and I dont' know if i'm getting anything in there. I tilt my head down a bit, and slightly to the side of the infected sinus.

Any tips would be appreciated!
Just be careful about your Eustachian Tubes. The openings are near the back of the throat, about even with the nostrils. The worst way to flood one's sinuses is on one's back, which would place the openings at the bottom of flooded sinuses, and place the ears in a downward direction from the liquid. The safest position is with the face looking down, because that puts the openings "up" from the liquid, and the ears up from the liquid.

I flood my sinuses with my forehead pointed down.

Sometimes, with infected Maxillary Sinuses, there is infection elsewhere, in other sinuses or in the turbinates or elsewhere within the nasal passages. So, even if one can't get to the Maxillaries, it may be possible to relieve some symptoms and sinus problems with a sinus flooding with peroxide, baking soda and Kosher salt.

I am not a doctor. It is best to check with one's doctor before deciding to do an "upside down sinus flooding".
.

Last edited by Machaon; 05-14-2004 at 06:01 AM.

 
Old 05-13-2004, 08:21 PM   #71
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

[QUOTE=beerzoids]
I am not a doctor. It is best to check with one's doctor before deciding to do an "upside down sinus flooding".[/QUOTE

Maybe you should look into becoming one....it seems like you have helped a lot more people than any allergist I have heard of

 
Old 05-13-2004, 08:46 PM   #72
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Hi again, the diluted recipe is the one I found on that Dr's website, that one from Austin who has all those fancy initials after his name? The one who also treats Fibromyalgia, so of course I was all ears - or eyes - to what was on this site. The mixture used a lot more water, a lot less peroxide, and of course the salt and baking soda. I'm using pickling salt, which I think might be the same. Let's see, the recipe is about a quart of water, a heaping teaspoon of the salt, heaping teaspoon of baking soda and a level teaspoon of peroxide. I used that for many days, now I increased the peroxide to two teaspoons. Mostly because I think I might be able to tolerate it better. I do feel the flooding helps and is continuing to do so. (where's the spell check button! LOL) The herbs maybe, who knows, but maybe a combination of all of the above. I did hours of research. HOurs. That's how I found your info, as well as all the other suggestions, herbal remedies, suggestions for using that Grosson irrigator thing. For $90.00 I think I'll wait! So far the methods I'm using were either found here, or on Dr's websites.
I still cannot quite get the process down completely. I mean I have been putting my head on the bathroom floor with a towel in front of me or under my head as cushion, then I flood away. I shake my nostril a bit to make sure it goes all the way in there, wipe any spills and then flood again. Three times now stuff has gone into my throat. I have no idea why, as I'm upside down and tilted even further. But otherwise, while upside down, I tilt my head, rotate it, sit there a bit, then I come up and let it come out onto the towel. I sit there for a minute because if I don't, it all goes to my throat over the course of the next thirty minutes or so.
Anyway, so far so good. Today I didn't produce any "junk" so I don't know if that means it's mostly gone, or that I just wasn't able to produce any.
I think I answered all the questions.....for now.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:54 PM   #73
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Regarding Mabulok's post, I had brown junk too. I've never seen anything like that, and I often wondered if it was fungal related but I don't know for sure. It didn't come out with the peroxide mixture, but only when I first started irrigating my sinuses with a saline mixture. I had big blobs of brownish stuff that was very VERY thick, VERY sticky and disGUSting! It decreased and each day got less brown, less sticky/thick, there were these brown chunky things that were kind of hard and waxy, well they became more soft, tiny and not so brown. More greenish. I was having greenish yellow "snot" and that is now mostly clear with just a hint of yellow greenish.
I'd certainly like to know what the ENT says about that brown stuff, mabolok, because I had that too. It was awful, I called it alien snot. I assumed it was because it had been in there such a long long time. But I also read that some sinus fungal infections produce brown stuff.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:57 PM   #74
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

I'd definitely like to know more about keeping it out of the eustacian tubes. (I probably spelled that wrong...) When I flooded using the stronger recipe, my swallowing just happened. It seemed automatic and I couldn't make it stop. My ears felt pressure the next few days. If fluid gets in the tubes, does it just stay there, or does it eventually drain out naturally?

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Old 05-14-2004, 04:00 AM   #75
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Re: New 'upside down sinus flooding' documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
I don't know if the reason for the decreasing irritation is because your nasal/sinus membranes are healing or if they are just toughening up. What is your opinion?.
Well, I believe it is because everything up there is now in a healing mode, whereas before it was overworked, and never getting better due to the buildup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
I had yellow/green thick discharge for around six months after I started my first sinus flooding. I knew that the infection was gone because my sinuses were not swelling shut anymore. I really believe that the yellow/green thick, ugly globs were being caused by damaged sinus/nasal membranes. After they healed, the discharge became clean and watery.

But....... "brown glob of crap"? Is that coming out because of damaged sinuses or because there is junk stuck up there, or both?.


I'm fairly certain the brown stuff is trapped material. Now, following the floodings I continue to blow a little brown stuff at times, but mostly yellow, very sticky material. What I believe to be happening...as the sinuses are getting better, further up with each passing day and flooding, it is allowing more of the trapped material to come out on it's own. I have even coughed up some due to drainage into my throat. From what I understand, there are tiny hairs within the sinuses that create a flowing action from the nose all the way to the back of the throat, in order to naturally expell contaminates that have been inhaled. I'm not sure if my description is entirely accurate, but the jist of it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
How much peroxide are you using to how much water? Are you using more than one part peroxide to ten parts water?

I use 1:10, h2o2 and saline water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
The improvement in the popping of your ears is a surprise. You are the first to feedback any improvement in the pressure or popping of ears. The opening to the Eustachian Tubes is near the back of the throat, almost even with the nostrils. The opening is normally closed. The opening must open once in a while to equalize the pressure in the middle ear.

I am guessing that the opening to your Eustachian Tube on the left side has been cleared of junk because of the sinus flooding. What do you think?

There is a good side to that and a bad side. If, indeed, the flooding has cleared the opening to the Eustachian Tube, that is a good thing, but that means the the fluid may be coming into contact with the area around the opening. If so, while your sinuses are flooded, an accidental swallowing, hickcup, yawn, jaw movement, chewing, etc., could open the Eustachian Tube and allow peroxide, baking soda and kosher salt to go in through the opening. That could cause additional, unwanted problems.

Just some things for you to think about.

Great feedback, as always. Thanks!
.
You are probably right in that the left eustacian tube was most likey blocked. My right one is intermittently becoming unblocked now. I don't do any unusual movements while flooding that would cause them to open so hopefully that won't be an issue. All in all the pressure on the left side is almost normal now, and I can only attribute the improvement to the sinus floodings. I didn't mention it before, but researching this method has yielded some interesting findings: I found a doctor (not local) that has devised a method where his sinus irrigations are performed with a tiny catheter type sprayer that is inserted high up into the sinuses and then a stream of solution is injected, allowing the material to gently flood the sinuses while draining due to gravity. I'm not suggesting anyone try this with their own makeshift system, but just to point out that even mainstream medicine is moving in this direction. Perhaps it is something to ask when deciding on which ENT to choose?

 
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Question re: upside down method sinus flooding jv_2004 Sinus Problems 2 03-15-2005 02:47 PM
Sinus Infection - my treatment, lousy results, comments? adam2000 Sinus Problems 5 12-27-2004 05:15 AM
allergies and sinus problems PMH Sinus Problems 18 10-17-2004 03:29 AM




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