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Old 04-02-2010, 09:35 PM   #1
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Bilbo HB User
Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Like many folks here I have been a "night owl" ever since I can remember. I remember being a kid (5-6 yrs old) and laying in bed till the wee hours in the morning before I fell asleep. The wheels in my head just wouldn't stop.

Over the years this problem has come and gone. Sometimes I had periods where I only needed to sleep 4 hours a night and I was great! I worked 12-14hrs a day and had no problems.

Fast forwards to today. In the last 7 years I have had lots of medical problems. I can no longer work. I do, however, still try to maintain strong sleep hygiene process that I learned but in the last few years my sleep problems have developed into full blown insomnia. I have ran the course of all the normal sleep meds (Ambien, lunesta) and they worked but I became tolerant to each. I have also tried several of label meds for insomnia like Remeron and Dalmane) and Remeron gave me horrific nightmares and Dalmane just didn't work.

Today I had a very upfront conversation with my Dr about this chronic insomnia and how it was really affecting my life and exacerbating my mental health (depression). He took me serious but put me on a medication called Risperidone!?!?! I don't care that its an anti-psychotic and is use to treat schizophrenia. I am concerned that I can't find anywhere were it says its used for Insomnia. I see that it can cause drowsiness but one of its main side effects IS INSOMNIA. Anyone have any idea what he could be possibly thinking?

Tonite will be the 1st dose. Will report back what happened but would like to hear from others about this. Any other meds that can be used for insomnia besides those I listed....

Thanks
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:47 PM   #2
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mmKay HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Good luck..
I started taking Wellbutrin and Ambien at the same time. The Ambien worked great, fell asleep right away and stayed asleep. The Wellbutrin helped but the doctor said it wasn't doing enough so he wanted to give me something else. He gave me risperidone.. unlike you I was angry that he gave me an antipsychotic and didn't tell me. I don't have any psychotic symptoms so why wouldn't he tell me straight up what he was giving me? He just said it would "help me sleep". Besides the point.. I was supposed to take both the risperidone and Ambien at bedtime but I didn't feel right taking them at the same time so I took the risperidone and an hour later I took the Ambien. The next morning.. I won't write a novel but I thought I was going to die. The side effects were just awful. I called in sick to work and even though I had slept 9 hours that night, went back to bed and slept from 7 am to 3 pm. I still felt like crap and laid in bed til 6pm because the headache and dizzyness were so bad that I couldn't walk. So yeah.. that was a friday and on monday I went back to the dr and told him I wasn't going to take it again. After hearing my list of side effects he didn't even say anything about trying it a second time, just gave me a different antidepressant. (I'm still taking Ambien)

 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:02 PM   #3
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Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Hello Bilbo,

I have such a heart for your past and present insomnia issues. Like
you said too ...sleep hygiene is important too but does not always
correct the problem I know.

Wheels in head not stopping.......boy can I relate to that one. I am
a big nightime thinker and good reason for it but still the same real
challenges.

Building up that tolerance to sleep meds is a tough one and such a
real one as well.

I am not as familiar with Respridone, as I am with some other meds
related so can't offer much input there. Maybe though (imo) your
doctor is considering the med for you as an off label use. Possible
to calm any anxiety? Dunno though?

Presently I am being treated with Amytriptyline for IC along with
insomnia bouts. It is the chosen route I want to go, though rather
than some others. I take an occassional Zolpodiem.... (but very
infrequently) Also I take Gabapentin for IC and it does assist me
in some better sleep also. All and all though I still have sleep
challenges that are ongoing but they have improved.

I am interested in how your first dose goes tonight.

Please share your thoughts ........

Take Care,

Janaly
__________________
Intercystial Cystitis
Cervical Neuralgia
Insomnia challenges
Allergic to Shellfish
*all are being treated*
but not with perfect success.

Last edited by hb-mod; 04-03-2010 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Removed Quote. Please use "Quick" Reply rather than "Quote" Reply. Thanks!

 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:10 PM   #4
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Bilbo HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Thanks for the reply and I had read your story as I did a search of the med before I posted. Unlike your Dr, mine was completely upfront and told me what the med was specifically for and that it was an off label use approved for Insomnia. At this point we had to get into the heavy duty fire power as ambien doesn't even make me yawn. I took the Risperidone about 30 mins ago and just feel a ting of fatigue and "heavy eyes" but I am no where close to being tired.

That is where I am puzzled since he told me it was a heavy duty tranquilizer and would know me out. His instructions say take 1 to 3 tabs at bedtime and being freaked out I only took one. I am a big guy so maybe it not enough but I am afraid to mess around with this class of med. He also didn't tell me, and I should have asked, how it interacts with my other meds. I take methadone and hydrocodone for pain and xanax for anxiety. Im sure the pain meds are fine but what about the xanax? I read someones post here where their Dr told them that Risperidone was just like xanax. Completly wrong and not even close. Two different classes of meds that have nothing chemically in common. Risperidone may have some anti-anxiety properties but its nothing like a Benzo.

Oh well. Looks like another night of little to no sleep. Make it to Monday and chew some butt and start over with another med. Let waste some more time and money. Cheers
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

Last edited by hb-mod; 04-03-2010 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Removed Quote. Please use "Quick" Reply rather than "Quote" Reply. Thanks!

 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:32 PM   #5
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Bilbo HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Thanks for the Kind words. No better place to find advice about insomnia then a sleep disorder forum in the middle of the night, lol.

Ya I stated in my post that he is using this med as an off label use. Its primarily use for schizophrenia and other similar mental disorders but like many meds we take today, it was found that it "supposedly" had good use off label for insomnia and anxiety.

As for you suggested meds...Amytriptyline (Elavil) gave me terrible nightmares. I am a very lucid dreamer and when under the influence of Elavil and some muscle relaxers those dreams get weird and bizarre. I am very familiar with Gabapentin (Nuerontin) as I took it for a long time in relation to my back and neck fusions and nerve damage. I had zero reaction to this med and its sister med Lyrica. It was like I took a tablet of air, lol. Zolpodiem is the generic original Ambien and I did have great success with that for 2 years but about 6 months ago it just slowly started to poop out and I was waking earlier and earlier each morning. I then had to couple Zolpodiem with xanax and it worked some but I woke frequently, took a little xanax and got a little more sleep and so on. None of that sleep was REM or Deep sleep so it was really worthless.

Thanks for you kind words and good luck with your health.

I am going into full sleep hygiene mode. Computer and TV off, special sleep music on, not a single light on anywhere in the room, eye mask on, special pillow check, Body pillow check, proper room temp check.... Here we go....

Peace.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

Last edited by hb-mod; 04-03-2010 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Removed Quote. Please use "Quick" Reply rather than "Quote" Reply. Thanks!

 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:37 PM   #6
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Janaly HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

I am still here doing some night owling...

I am right behind you and in just minutes am going into full sleep
hygiene mode as well.

I just read your most recent comments in reply to my post.
Thank you. I read it attentively.

I can't find my eyemask though.....had a feeling earlier my cat
may have hid it. Really! Maybe it got hooked to some other
piece of clothing of mine and is in the wash machine or laundry.

Good night.

Janaly
__________________
Intercystial Cystitis
Cervical Neuralgia
Insomnia challenges
Allergic to Shellfish
*all are being treated*
but not with perfect success.

Last edited by hb-mod; 04-03-2010 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Removed Quote. Please use "Quick" Reply rather than "Quote" Reply. Thanks!

 
Old 04-03-2010, 03:20 PM   #7
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Bilbo HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

I know this will probably get edited and/or deleted but when did the moderators here get so ridiculous. I see several post in this SHORT thread that have been edited for simply quoting the person you are talking directly too.

Mods, check out some other forums. The quote function is there for a reason. Its there so people know who is talking to who. If you don't like people using it the tell me why its there. This is a great forum and it has helped me immensely over the years but release the python grip you have on controlling every little detail. I understand the role of a moderator and have been a mod on several forums myself and have never seen so much nit picky control.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 04-03-2010, 11:01 PM   #8
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mmKay HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

haha seriously. How're you supposed to know who's talking to who when there's more than one user on a thread?

How was the risperidone?

 
Old 04-04-2010, 11:16 AM   #9
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Janaly HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
I know this will probably get edited and/or deleted but when did the moderators here get so ridiculous. I see several post in this SHORT thread that have been edited for simply quoting the person you are talking directly too.

Mods, check out some other forums. The quote function is there for a reason. Its there so people know who is talking to who. If you don't like people using it the tell me why its there. This is a great forum and it has helped me immensely over the years but release the python grip you have on controlling every little detail. I understand the role of a moderator and have been a mod on several forums myself and have never seen so much nit picky control.


******For me I am still getting familiar with the posting policies and
intricacies. I have to reread them and when I do I catch things I had
not the first time around.

I agree with you that this is a great forum! I love it here! So far I have
found the moderators to be fair and professional.

The quote thread I think we are doing ok with here on this thread. If
edited did we have it in the wrong comment place or whatever? Some
times quick reply is available too right? Still figuring some of it out.


Have a pleasant day everyone........I am cooking up Easter dinner.

Janaly...
__________________
Intercystial Cystitis
Cervical Neuralgia
Insomnia challenges
Allergic to Shellfish
*all are being treated*
but not with perfect success.

 
Old 04-04-2010, 03:24 PM   #10
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Bilbo HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

mmKay and Janaly, I guess the only way to keep track of who is talking to who is to go formal and address everyone directly. I went back an looked at some of my old thread when I was talking about my back surgeries in complex detail and the only way to clearly communicate was to use the quote function and go even farther and break up the quotes in multiple blocks. With out that ability it would have been literally impossible to discuss complex things in long threads. What is confusing is that this was back when their was NO private messaging at all. You couldn't link ANY other website either. The changes just don't make sense or follow any logical progression. Just seems someone has too much time on their hands. It may even be a "bot mod" or software controlled mod that eliminates quotes altogether. Who knows but its irritating and will be hard to work around in the future but, honestly, I think we all have bigger fish to fry.....lol

After two nights I am still very unsure of the Risperidone. The 1st night I only took 1mg and last night I tried 2mg. My script says 1-3 tabs at bedtime. It makes me feel a little odd. Cant describe it really. A little like what cold medicine does to me. Dries my nose and mouth out and makes my eye squint. I feel a little "tight" and not as "fluid" in my movement about 30 mins after I take it. IT DOES NOT MAKE ME SLEEPY. I still have to chase it with 1.5mg of xanax to relax my mind enough to fall asleep. Its not a perfect combo because even though the xanax is a short acting med, it leaves me really sleepy come morning and I have a hard time waking up.

With that said, I can say that it helps me in other ways. I have been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder and I take Celexa (Citalopram). Risperidone seems to, so far, help with some of my depression issues. When I do finally awake, I am more positive and the negative thought loop that normally runs threw my brain is quieted. The only day after side effect I have is a baby headache. I don't have any of the scary neurological side effects. I realize that its only been two days and I am still in evaluation mode.

I need to find out if Risperidone is safe with Ambien. I had mentioned previously that I had taken Ambien for a couple years and I actually looked up my prescription records online and it was 1 year 3 months. I haven't been on Ambien for 3 months so I am hoping the break will let me restart it effectively. Anyone know if they can be taken together. I really want to get away from taking xanax at bedtime or in the middle of the night. I really need it for anxiety and for times when my pain levels get so high my pain meds can't keep up. During the day, if that happens, it works like a system reboot and I may take a 15-30 min power nap and wake with pain levels in half. That only happens 1-2 a week.

Anyway, bottom line the jury is still out on Risperidone......
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 04-04-2010, 07:44 PM   #11
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mmKay HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

I take Celexa too and I really thought it wasn't doing anything because I didn't feel different, whereas I could feel the difference with Wellbutrin. I don't know if I'm looking into this too much but I've noticed that if I don't take the Celexa by 11PM (I usually take it at 10 but sometimes I forget) then by midnight-ish I'll cry. I don't mean like a tear here and there, but intense crying. I just take the Ambien then because I know the crying won't stop. That one's probably gonna be really hard to come off of if I'm getting withdrawal symptoms that soon -_-

I took Risperidone and Ambien the same night, but yeah.. that didn't turn out so well for me haha. It might just have been that my body doesn't like risperidone though because I don't think my doctor would have told me to take them together if they were known to have bad interactions with each other. If you're going to ask for an Ambien prescription though you might as well ask the doctor while you're there.

 
Old 04-04-2010, 11:59 PM   #12
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Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

mmKay - I have a similar reaction if I miss a dose of Celexa. I go into a deep depression and either get really really ticked off at the simplest things or I totally withdraw and don't and won't to leave the house. I a few months ago a family member had some serious turmoil at home and in helping him I accidentily missed 4 days. Addrenaline had carried me for the 1st 3 days but on the fourth I crashed hard and had a mini breakdown. Now I don't miss any. I think of it as my foundation med. Without it, the cards come crashing down. BTW, I took Welbutrin also and liked it. I didn't take it for depression though. I used to used chewing tobacco (yuk, I know) from 17-34 and welbutrin had been repackaged into Zyban for Smoking cessation (nicotine cessation really). I stayed on it after I was clear of the tobacco problem and used it for a couple of years and like most people who suffer from depression, I thought I was all better and stopped. A few years later, when I found myself hanging on by a thread and on the verge of a breakdown, I saw a Dr. and we went with Lexapro. It worked even better and I had insurance then. I did lexapro for years and when I stopped working I had to find something cheaper. I though about Welbutrin but my GP said Celexa was really close to Lexapro so off I went. I works super for me. Antidepressants are weird. They are one of the few meds that you really notice them working. They only way to tell is to chart or journal how you feel emotionally each day. I know they work because I am not on the roller coaster anymore. My emotions are not up and down hour by hour. I am more level. Since "level is the more "normal" I think its hard to really tell. I hope that makes sense.

Tonite I am skipping the Riseridone and going with Klonopin which was prescribed by my GP 2 months ago and I tried and it was ok but looking back it has been better than any other med I have tried (except when Ambien was working). I had forgot about it and when doing an inventory of my Pain Meds, which I do every week, I discovered them. I am also doing things in reverse order compared to before. I started with taking Xanax an hour BEFORE taking my sleep med. If needed I will take a little more. Can't take too much xanax with the Klonopin since they are very similar. Well see.

Right now I kinda feel lucky because of my totally wrecked back I do not work anymore. I don't know what I would be doing if I was working. I have had insomnia bouts before when I was working but nothing like this. I would get some sleep each nite and if it got really bad I could take a few days off. Now I just sleep in. I have such a wonderful Wife who is so supportive. All she asks if that I try to get better and not give up. What more can a Man ask for???

Changing gears, have you ever heard of the Zeo Personal Sleep System? Do a google search on it. It measures brain activity during sleep and can put into detail how much REM and DEEP sleep you got and it can even wake you at the optimal time, within a time window, so your not taken out of DEEP sleep by the alarm which will make you really groggy. I am just curious about the REM and DEEP sleep tracking which is done on your computer. I am going to start a new post about after I do a search for it and make sure I don't break the forum rules.
__________________
2 Lumbar Lamies 93 (age 22); Cervical Fusion C4-C6 2004. Lumbar Fusion w/ hardware S1-L4 2007, DDD & stenosis entire spine. super low T. 30mg Methadone BID 10-20mg Norco 4 BT. 2mg Xanax PRN.

 
Old 04-05-2010, 02:41 AM   #13
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Lisa Jane HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
Like many folks here I have been a "night owl" ever since I can remember. I remember being a kid (5-6 yrs old) and laying in bed till the wee hours in the morning before I fell asleep. The wheels in my head just wouldn't stop.

Over the years this problem has come and gone. Sometimes I had periods where I only needed to sleep 4 hours a night and I was great! I worked 12-14hrs a day and had no problems.

Fast forwards to today. In the last 7 years I have had lots of medical problems. I can no longer work. I do, however, still try to maintain strong sleep hygiene process that I learned but in the last few years my sleep problems have developed into full blown insomnia. I have ran the course of all the normal sleep meds (Ambien, lunesta) and they worked but I became tolerant to each. I have also tried several of label meds for insomnia like Remeron and Dalmane) and Remeron gave me horrific nightmares and Dalmane just didn't work.

Today I had a very upfront conversation with my Dr about this chronic insomnia and how it was really affecting my life and exacerbating my mental health (depression). He took me serious but put me on a medication called Risperidone!?!?! I don't care that its an anti-psychotic and is use to treat schizophrenia. I am concerned that I can't find anywhere were it says its used for Insomnia. I see that it can cause drowsiness but one of its main side effects IS INSOMNIA. Anyone have any idea what he could be possibly thinking?

Tonite will be the 1st dose. Will report back what happened but would like to hear from others about this. Any other meds that can be used for insomnia besides those I listed....

Thanks

 
Old 04-05-2010, 02:56 AM   #14
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Lisa Jane HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

For your chronic insomnia have you tried pharmacuetical grade calcium 1000mg,magnesium 500mg,and vitamin D 1000 mg . And making sure that you have a low glycemic meal at night. Check that you have no sugary drinks at night (preferably none at all) including all fruit juice and diet,low sugar drinks. The Cal/mag conbination will also help your general health in lots of ways and best of all ...no bad side affects and you won't become intolerant.

 
Old 04-05-2010, 10:56 PM   #15
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mmKay HB User
Re: Severe Insomnia, nightmares and meds

My doctor doesn't think I've found the right concoction of medications yet. Honestly, I'm scared of trying anything else after the risperidone. I might not be where he wants me to be.. but I think this is good enough. I'd rather feel just okay than have to deal with who knows what side effects from another AD. I'm still on the "rollercoaster" except now it's more spread out. I have good days and all of a sudden I'll have days where all I want to do is cry, then back to good days. Like you said though, still better than having my mood change hour by hour lol.

I'm glad you get to rest during the day if you're not really sleeping at night. Trying to function without sleep is quite difficult. I'm not supposed to be having any coffee.. but i drink like 10 cups a day. It doesn't give me any energy whatsoever..just keeps me awake.

That machine sounds great.. I want it! haha but yeah I'll look it up :]

 
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