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chathuranj 01-06-2012 05:37 PM

Can't stay asleep
 
Lately i've been having trouble staying asleep, no matter what time i go to sleep i always wake up 4-5 hours after and can't go back to sleep, then during the day time i feel really sleepy but can't fall asleep. any advice? I've tried melotonin 3mg but that didnt work.

BrienE 01-08-2012 11:22 AM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
I can relate to this. I hope you are not having as difficult a time as me. I have been waking up after 3 or 4 hrs for months and it had progressed to where I have been feeling incredibly fatigued and tapped -- such lack of energy that my capacity to take care of my work and solve my own problems day to day is affected.

If you suspect you could possibly have sleep apnea, I recommend you don't fool around and get a sleep study... most people who have apnea are not aware of their own continual arousals overnight and just feel the brunt of it during the day.

Another things you can do that may be very relevant is get your Vitamin D checked. Especially this time of year in Oz you might be doing well, but you never know... you could stay out of the sun a lot, or not absorb it well....anyway people do have deficencies and proper sleep can be a casualty.

Hope you get some better sleep!

easygoingguy 01-09-2012 08:07 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
Same here, only sleep 4-5 hours then lie awake drifting in/out of sleep, but not enough. Hope we keep this thread going and help each other. BrianE, did you have a sleep test done?

BrienE 01-09-2012 08:17 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
Yes, I did... I lay there anxiously for 5 hrs... was not impressed... but there is a detailed chart of my stages of 'sleep' for this period and there were apneic events. I don't read about people in their 20s dealing w sleep apnea though... do you have a bed partner or a way of recording yourself, perhaps w a cheap digital recorder or even video... an apneic event is where a person stops breathing because their pharynx collapses, tongue falls back, and blocks passage of air or -- the brain stops sending mssg to breathe...

Indeed, cheers and hope we will sleep better. I am not thrilled at strapping on a mask at night to sleep, however at present sleep is better (or even possible) with it than without so for now I use the CPAP....

For natural approaches, melatonin has helped me in the past, but I kinda have to use it fairly early, not 1:00 AM I figure! Also have used Tryptophan, a precurser to serotonin...

but hydroxyzine is a relatively gentle script approach, it is not as heavy as ambien and at least in my case, it lets me dream. Best to you, sleep well...

easygoingguy 01-09-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
[QUOTE=BrienE;4907785]Yes, I did... I lay there anxiously for 5 hrs... was not impressed... but there is a detailed chart of my stages of 'sleep' for this period and there were apneic events. I don't read about people in their 20s dealing w sleep apnea though... do you have a bed partner or a way of recording yourself, perhaps w a cheap digital recorder or even video... an apneic event is where a person stops breathing because their pharynx collapses, tongue falls back, and blocks passage of air or -- the brain stops sending mssg to breathe...

Indeed, cheers and hope we will sleep better. I am not thrilled at strapping on a mask at night to sleep, however at present sleep is better (or even possible) with it than without so for now I use the CPAP....

For natural approaches, melatonin has helped me in the past, but I kinda have to use it fairly early, not 1:00 AM I figure! Also have used Tryptophan, a precurser to serotonin...

but hydroxyzine is a relatively gentle script approach, it is not as heavy as ambien and at least in my case, it lets me dream. Best to you, sleep well...[/QUOTE]

thanks for reply. I might record myself sleeping (great idea). If I record myself sleeping with audio or video, how would I know when an apneic event occurs, I know you stop breathing, but what exactly to look for on video, or listen if audio?

BrienE 01-10-2012 09:37 AM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
With audio I would listen for a sudden inspiratory snort, a sudden whoosh of air out of a long silence. It may not mean you ceased breathing altogether, you might have been steadily but too quietly to pick up. I would not be surprised if there are (according to sleep medicine) perfectly normal breathing patterns that include occasional deep breaths. There are also "hypopneas" which is a variation on the theme, breathing but too shallow for proper sleep, so the brain kicks itself out of a deeper more restful stage.

If snoring is steady you might be just fine, as far as oxygenation anyway...

I would think the best evidence of an apnea is a long silence and sudden snort. Whether from obstruction or a central (neurological) skipping of breath, it is thought to correlate with the brain booting itself out of sleep or deeper sleep... usually not enough to consciously be aware or remember.

If you are willing to spend 50 -- 100 dollars, sometimes a little more... another thing you can do is purchase a finger pulse oximeter. You want one that will record your sp02 over hours of sleep so you can find out if you are losing oxygen, or 'desaturating,' at night.

The ones from Walgreens, etc are purportedly 2 percentage points +/- accurate to the the ones found in clinics. However I have taken mine in at appts to check its accuracy and there was no difference. I see some online that give you the results through usb and they look very cool, a lot easier to work with....

Sp02 which is what the pulseox shows you (along with your heart rate), is the percentage of hemoglobin saturated with oxygen. Normally I think we walk around with a level of 95 -- 99 %, with occasional dips and spikes, but bouncing around in this range. Sometimes you see 96% given as a lower limit. I wouldn't get too hung up on that.... If while asleep sp02 drops into the 80s and 70s I believe that is considered a serious desaturation.

So you put it on your finger and go to sleep....if in the morning going over the levels you see big drops in sat, that is more good evidence of apneic arousal. The body doesn't let itself die from lack of oxygen so it will neurologically kick itself awake to bring in more air and fortunately you go on living, unfortunately sleep suffers.

In my case, even though I scored high for apneas and hypopneas and was diagnosed and scripted a CPAP, etc.... my sats did not go down very much. I am visiting a sleep doc again soon and will try to clarify but its been explained so far on various boards and from research, there are other reasons the brain will wake itself in an apneic event, with sats remaining more or less normal, or maybe into the low 90s only occasionally and briefly.

SO -- just to be confusing here, the implication is if your sp02 is normal at night, it doesn't mean you are not getting arousals that are 'apneic' BUT if your sp02 is NOT normal, dipping into the 80s and 70s, that is very significant. If that is the case, you might also have morning headaches too.

If you use a camera and see yourself kicking and moving your legs a lot that is another thing, restless legs or periodic limb movement... I mean, if you go to the trouble of videoing your sleep and you are kicking a lot, you certainly have something there!

Finally, I know I threw a lot at you with this and it reflects my own self-advocacy and drive to be educated because I have very limited income as well.... this is good -- it also reflects a tendency to overworry and stress, I assume you are familiar with the phenomena of fulfilling at least very convincing symptoms of a health issue simply from agonizing too much over it.

Meaning not worrying about sleep is good for sleep, but on the other hand if you have a medical problem with sleep it needs to be addressed. I know that years ago I fought terrible insomnia and lay awake for hours, developed worse and worse general anxiety and then it was chicken/egg --- after awhile my sleep improved, my moods lifted, I became evened out and without the aid of meds, and I noticed that sleep was SO important for the system to heal every night and for my thinking to be fresh. I did things like making sure all digital displays were turned away form me, and the other usual sleep hygiene stuff... still to this day struggle with having a natural night owl rhythm in a morning lark society, so to speak.

But anyway, what I mean is try not to get too preoccupied and worried because as you know it won't help, will hurt your sleep. But above you can see ways you can find out without spending money yet, if you have apnea issues...

One other thing I am interested in is this "Zeo" product found at Best Buy.... supposedly with a headband and sensors it will tell you about your sleep stages...

easygoingguy 01-10-2012 12:17 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
wow thanks BrianE for the info! All this is new to me. What's happening to me is that I always wake up at around 6am, but I went to bed at 1am. Maybe this means I need to go to bed at 10pm? Maybe, so I'm going to first try and go to sleep a little earlier each night and see if that helps. I check out the finger device. very helpful!

BrienE 01-11-2012 02:35 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
Please do give all the other things a good shot before you go off thinking you have sleep apnea, or even need a pulse oximeter for that matter. It was all informational to help consider if you needed an actual sleep study. What you write sounds good and it's something I need to do to, set the clock back... cheers!

Here's to earlier, sleepier nights.

easygoingguy 01-12-2012 04:03 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
I did what you suggested, I recorded myself sleeping with a digital audio recorder. OMG! I snore bad for over an hour! Every breath! Later I quiet down for several hours until I wake up at 6am. And sometimes I did snort loudly.

I've read snoring is caused by mouth breathing? So I'm going to try Breatheright strips and nasal spray and see if it's better. If that doesn't work I'm going to try the Ziesta Sleep Strips. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try more advanced things you suggested. thanks!

easygoingguy 01-12-2012 04:50 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
I did what you suggested, I recorded myself sleeping with a digital audio recorder. OMG! I snore bad for over an hour! Every breath! Later I quiet down for several hours until I wake up at 6am. And sometimes I did snort loudly.

I've read snoring is caused by mouth breathing? So I'm going to try Breatheright strips and nasal spray and see if it's better. If that doesn't work I'm going to try the Ziesta Sleep Strips. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try more advanced things you suggested. thanks!

BrienE 01-12-2012 05:47 PM

Re: Can't stay asleep
 
Never heard of Ziesta, thanks for that info. Good luck with all your steps and have good nights!


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