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Old 09-08-2005, 01:27 PM   #1
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greenacres HB Usergreenacres HB Usergreenacres HB User
Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

Here's my past:
I just e-mailed our local "Spine Clinic" asking for an appointment. I am fed up with these other "two docs" that have been trying to help me. I am in terrible pain. I am attaching my test results for the last 10 months, tell me what you think. I've included my own notes as well from research I've done on the internet. I've been diagnosed with OA/DDD/and bilateral sacroilitis. But all conservative mesaures have been taken. Therapy, TENS, massage, ESI' (shots). I'm done! Can you all offer your opinion on my next route? They haven't called back yet to make an appointment for me. THANK YOU.

SUMMARY of findings:

Here are my test results and/or my own notes that I've been keeping track of.

September, 2005 (TODAY!)
Started feeling more and more pain on R side. Pain is in middle of lower back, R hip area, R buttock down whole front/back side of leg. I also feel pain very low end of my tailbone a lot. I also had an annual eye appt. yesterday and informed him of my continuous dry eyes. He examined me and said I do indeed have very dry eyes. He said to take some OTC like Refresh eyes and if that doesn't help, he'll write me a Rx. I went to my Chiro on 9/7 and said he didn't know what else he could do for that condition. He said I could go back to MC. I made myself an appointment with the spine clinic in Marshfield. I have also been experiencing more and more uring leakage and reduced sexual drive and lack of lubrication.
August 11, 2005
R - SI Joint shot (about one week of relief).
July 21, 2005
SI Joint shot in R. (about one week of relief)

June - 2005
Broke out in a horrible rash on the backs of my legs, backs of my arms and inner thighs. Went to doctor and he could not explain the itchy rash, but put me on tapering dose of Prednisone. The rash subsided and I felt so good "overall".

May - 2005
Right Sacroilitis (diagnosed by Osteopathic Surgeon)
Had one cortizone shot in the right SI Joint. Only helped for about a couple of weeks. Started feeling pain early on during vacation 2nd week of June. Regretted not having the 2nd one just before I left because I did feel good for a while.

CERVICAL SPINE MRI (Feb 2005)

Slight loss of disk signals at C3-4, C4-5, C5-6 interspaces.

Very mild intradural impressions are seen at C4-5 and C5-6. - "A disk fragment may rupture through the thecal sac into the intradural compartment" My question: Doesn't this mean that I have disk fragments indenting the intradural compartments of these two vertebrae's?

Mild concentric disk bulging is evident at C4-5 and C5-6.

Mild/moderate bony foraminal stenosis on the left at C4-5 and C5-6. Direct neural impingement cannot be clearly confirmed.
Impression: Minimal discogenic degenerative changes are seen at C4-5 and C5-6 with no significant central stenosis. Mild or moderate bony left foraminal stenosis is seen at these levels. - My question: I've read several times that if there is bony stenosis you should not be getting chiropractic adjustments that it is extremely dangerous?

THORACIC SPINE XRAY (Feb 2005)
I did not get the report, but Dr. stated they were good with only minimal signs of arthritis.

LUMBAR SPINE MRI (Jan 2005)
Loss of disk signal and minimal loss of disk height at the L4-L5 level with ventral extradural impression.
On L3-L4, Facets are mildly hypertrophic here.
On L4-L5, axials show mild/moderate concentric disk bulging with superimposed midline posterior disk protrusion associated with some focal subannular signal; compatable with partial annular tear. This disk bulge does indent the central thecal sac slightly. Facets are mildly hypertrophic at this level.
On L5-S1, moderate hypertrophic facet arthropathy is present here.
My question: It appears by reading this and the research I've done that I have what is called "facet disease"? From L3 down to S1, all of my facets are hypertrophic. Then throw into the mix, bulging and a disk protrusion with a tear, that is indenting my thecal sac. This condition is not going to go away by itself.

SI Joints - show no clear erosive or cystic changes and no significant hyperostosis of the SI Joints. There is a small lipoma on the right sacral ala.

Evaluation from Chiropractor (October 2004)
High Occ on R
High Shoulder on R
High Pelvis on R
Left Convexity of Lumbar spine
Ankle pronation bilaterally
Fallen arch bilaterally
Hypokyphosis (Mild) thoracic spine
Hypolordosis (mild) lumbar spine
Reflexes - Patellar normal on Right and grade 1.5 sluggish on L
Lumbar orthopedic tests - Kemps test negative on L, Kemps test + on RIght with pain on left SI
Abnormal muscle contraction was noted on the hip in extension bilaterally.
Trapezius muscles revealed a myofascial trigger point tightness bilaterally
Lumbar erector muscles revealed hyperonicity on upper and lower and soreness in lower muscles
Hamstring muscles revealed tightness bilaterally
Medial joint line tender on the left
Plantar Fascia revealed soreness bilaterally
Joint fixation on T6, T7, the right SI and the left SI.
Tenderness to palpation at T6, T7, L5 and the right and left SI.

Xrays: Xrays taken of Sandra dated 9/29/04 are a two view lumbar series. AP Lumbar film demonstrates a levorotatory curvature of the lumbar spine of 7 degress between T12 and L4. There is also facet tropism on the right at L4 and L5. My note: Facet Tropism is also noted here - Facet Disease, this has to be what is causing most of my pain.
There is a mild internal rotation of the left pelvis. There appears to be some mild degenerative changes noted at the inferior sacroiliac joints bilaterally. Lateral lumbar film demonstrates a slight hyperlordosis. There is no evidence of disc degeneration or spondylosis. There is a slight retrolithsesis of L4 on L5
Bloodwork taken in September of 2004 ordered by my chiropractor revealed that I did not have Ankylosing Spondylitis or Rheumatoid Arthritis. My Hemoglobin showed HIGH red blood cells which indicates dehydration.

I have been seeing this Chiro office ever since 1984 for various occasions of pain in back and neck and on 2-3 occasions actually throwing my back out (or pulling something, who knows!) which one time landed me in the ER in 1993 (I could not sit, stand, I needed help on the toilet, walking, etc, was prescribed pain meds until it healed itself). The 2nd time when I was simply walking down two small steps from our house to our garage in 1997. The 3rd time being when I was pregnant, sciatica pain and had several adjustments to take care of it and the 3rd time being xmas eve of 04 and I have not healed from this one yet.
__________________
__________________
Sandra-
Breast Cancer Survivor 12/09 -Stage 1-Grade 3- IDC. ER-/PR-/Her2+. Neck Surgery - ACDF C6/C7 11/08. Bladder Surgery-Burch Procedure 2/06. THE LAST FIVE YEARS HAVE BEEN NOT SO MUCH FUN!

 
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Old 09-09-2005, 08:26 AM   #2
Veteran
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New Berlin, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 338
EmtShirl HB User
Smile Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

Hi greenacres ~

I am reading your long post over so it may take me a bit to get back to you.

"S"
__________________
Love,
Shirl
History:

1980- Transaxillary resection of 1st rib and division of band (left side)
1982- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1985- Transaxillary excision of cervical rib (right side)
1991- Laser stapedectomy (right side)
1992- Fractional D&C
1992- Diagnostic Laparoscopy
1996- Lumbar hemilaminectomy
1999- Left knee arthoscopic surgery
2001- Laparoscopic assisted vaginal hysterectomy
2002- L5-S1 Microdiscectomy
2002- L4-L5, L5-S1 Anterior inter-body lumbar fusion with cages and my own bone from left hip for bone graft
2002- Neck problems Surgery??????
2002 DEC 21- C4-5, C5-C6 Anterior Cervical Corpectomy with Fusion and Internal Fixation (Bone from the bone bank)

 
Old 09-16-2005, 02:47 PM   #3
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 495
notpain HB User
Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

This is going to be short - I've posted my story many times. I've pushed past a year now - seen more doctors than I care to talk about. Bloodwork is interesting in that it is a range of "normal". I finally found a physican that looked very close at my bloodwork and realized some things were off. Things which upon more definitive testing revealed my body is not absorbing certain trace minerals properly.

As you know the body is a whole. Chiros are good for some things. I'd have someone who really specializes in Nutritional Medicene take a very close look at you. I was blown away to read about the symptoms of magnesium deficiency and how closely they match my problems - I have virtually none in my system. This trace mineral is needed for collegen. My GP was clueless as most of my bloodwork was in range. I also had high red count just out of range - an indicator for other problems. My point in saying this is to really figure out what state of health you are in so that when you have surgery - should you go that route your recovery time will be expediated.

And we have not tried all modalities. Everyday I learn of more. Some may seem pretty out there, but you can't know until you try I would assume you have been tested for metal toxicity. Metals like mercury push enzymes off their natural receptors and interfere with healing. Supplemtents like Fish Oil and Flax Oil help restore the ratio of essential fats. People who feel fine can actually be just time bombs waiting to get ill. For me my injury happened in one day I was clueless. I now realize I ate very few veggies and way too many carbs although I thought I was eating "right". Just make sure you are healthy enough for surgery.

I met a retired orthopedic surgeon and asked him about back surgery. His advice was "Avoid it at all costs" - and this from a person that does surgery. Like you I am looking to end my misery. But the downside to surgery is it has a success rate and a failure rate. And once the disc material is gone (damaged or not) it's gone. I am investigating artificial discs - approved by FDA for lower back but not for cervical spine. I read your cervical spine notes and aside from a possible fragment (which needs to be investigated) I'd bet your cervical spine is similar to anyone else your age.

Fix your posture - have someone take pictures of the way you stand, sit, sit in your car, etc. The load on the spine is fine when balanced and very very detrimental when it is not. 1" head forward puts twice the pressure on your neck I've read. Look at the way other people stand or walk. Look at a professional athlete - NBA for example and you'll see perfect posture in action.

Don't overlook your dental work - the jaw and your bite can effect you neck. And while I empathize with your postition - I'm pretty much confined to a chair and can hardly walk due to balance issues - I believe there are still things to try. Surgery will always be there, and unfortunately it may or may not solve your problems. There is so much more to investigate - unfortunately most doctors do not know or talk about alternatives other than Physical Therapy. For the Lower Back you may want to consider Prolotherapy. It works for some - look up Ross Hauser at caring medical to learn about it.

And I won't say the doctor phrase "good luck" because I'm sick of it - I will simply say I hope you get the best result from whatever you choose.

 
Old 03-20-2009, 03:15 PM   #4
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sydney australia
Posts: 8
siamchick HB User
Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

is there a heal to all of this? i have benn diagnosed with bilateral sacroilitis also, sometimes i cant walk or get out of bed for weeks because the pain is too severe. God help us!!!!!

 
Old 03-20-2009, 03:18 PM   #5
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sydney australia
Posts: 8
siamchick HB User
Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenacres View Post
Here's my past:
I just e-mailed our local "Spine Clinic" asking for an appointment. I am fed up with these other "two docs" that have been trying to help me. I am in terrible pain. I am attaching my test results for the last 10 months, tell me what you think. I've included my own notes as well from research I've done on the internet. I've been diagnosed with OA/DDD/and bilateral sacroilitis. But all conservative mesaures have been taken. Therapy, TENS, massage, ESI' (shots). I'm done! Can you all offer your opinion on my next route? They haven't called back yet to make an appointment for me. THANK YOU.

SUMMARY of findings:

Here are my test results and/or my own notes that I've been keeping track of.

September, 2005 (TODAY!)
Started feeling more and more pain on R side. Pain is in middle of lower back, R hip area, R buttock down whole front/back side of leg. I also feel pain very low end of my tailbone a lot. I also had an annual eye appt. yesterday and informed him of my continuous dry eyes. He examined me and said I do indeed have very dry eyes. He said to take some OTC like Refresh eyes and if that doesn't help, he'll write me a Rx. I went to my Chiro on 9/7 and said he didn't know what else he could do for that condition. He said I could go back to MC. I made myself an appointment with the spine clinic in Marshfield. I have also been experiencing more and more uring leakage and reduced sexual drive and lack of lubrication.
August 11, 2005
R - SI Joint shot (about one week of relief).
July 21, 2005
SI Joint shot in R. (about one week of relief)

June - 2005
Broke out in a horrible rash on the backs of my legs, backs of my arms and inner thighs. Went to doctor and he could not explain the itchy rash, but put me on tapering dose of Prednisone. The rash subsided and I felt so good "overall".

May - 2005
Right Sacroilitis (diagnosed by Osteopathic Surgeon)
Had one cortizone shot in the right SI Joint. Only helped for about a couple of weeks. Started feeling pain early on during vacation 2nd week of June. Regretted not having the 2nd one just before I left because I did feel good for a while.

CERVICAL SPINE MRI (Feb 2005)

Slight loss of disk signals at C3-4, C4-5, C5-6 interspaces.

Very mild intradural impressions are seen at C4-5 and C5-6. - "A disk fragment may rupture through the thecal sac into the intradural compartment" My question: Doesn't this mean that I have disk fragments indenting the intradural compartments of these two vertebrae's?

Mild concentric disk bulging is evident at C4-5 and C5-6.

Mild/moderate bony foraminal stenosis on the left at C4-5 and C5-6. Direct neural impingement cannot be clearly confirmed.
Impression: Minimal discogenic degenerative changes are seen at C4-5 and C5-6 with no significant central stenosis. Mild or moderate bony left foraminal stenosis is seen at these levels. - My question: I've read several times that if there is bony stenosis you should not be getting chiropractic adjustments that it is extremely dangerous?

THORACIC SPINE XRAY (Feb 2005)
I did not get the report, but Dr. stated they were good with only minimal signs of arthritis.

LUMBAR SPINE MRI (Jan 2005)
Loss of disk signal and minimal loss of disk height at the L4-L5 level with ventral extradural impression.
On L3-L4, Facets are mildly hypertrophic here.
On L4-L5, axials show mild/moderate concentric disk bulging with superimposed midline posterior disk protrusion associated with some focal subannular signal; compatable with partial annular tear. This disk bulge does indent the central thecal sac slightly. Facets are mildly hypertrophic at this level.
On L5-S1, moderate hypertrophic facet arthropathy is present here.
My question: It appears by reading this and the research I've done that I have what is called "facet disease"? From L3 down to S1, all of my facets are hypertrophic. Then throw into the mix, bulging and a disk protrusion with a tear, that is indenting my thecal sac. This condition is not going to go away by itself.

SI Joints - show no clear erosive or cystic changes and no significant hyperostosis of the SI Joints. There is a small lipoma on the right sacral ala.

Evaluation from Chiropractor (October 2004)
High Occ on R
High Shoulder on R
High Pelvis on R
Left Convexity of Lumbar spine
Ankle pronation bilaterally
Fallen arch bilaterally
Hypokyphosis (Mild) thoracic spine
Hypolordosis (mild) lumbar spine
Reflexes - Patellar normal on Right and grade 1.5 sluggish on L
Lumbar orthopedic tests - Kemps test negative on L, Kemps test + on RIght with pain on left SI
Abnormal muscle contraction was noted on the hip in extension bilaterally.
Trapezius muscles revealed a myofascial trigger point tightness bilaterally
Lumbar erector muscles revealed hyperonicity on upper and lower and soreness in lower muscles
Hamstring muscles revealed tightness bilaterally
Medial joint line tender on the left
Plantar Fascia revealed soreness bilaterally
Joint fixation on T6, T7, the right SI and the left SI.
Tenderness to palpation at T6, T7, L5 and the right and left SI.

Xrays: Xrays taken of Sandra dated 9/29/04 are a two view lumbar series. AP Lumbar film demonstrates a levorotatory curvature of the lumbar spine of 7 degress between T12 and L4. There is also facet tropism on the right at L4 and L5. My note: Facet Tropism is also noted here - Facet Disease, this has to be what is causing most of my pain.
There is a mild internal rotation of the left pelvis. There appears to be some mild degenerative changes noted at the inferior sacroiliac joints bilaterally. Lateral lumbar film demonstrates a slight hyperlordosis. There is no evidence of disc degeneration or spondylosis. There is a slight retrolithsesis of L4 on L5
Bloodwork taken in September of 2004 ordered by my chiropractor revealed that I did not have Ankylosing Spondylitis or Rheumatoid Arthritis. My Hemoglobin showed HIGH red blood cells which indicates dehydration.

I have been seeing this Chiro office ever since 1984 for various occasions of pain in back and neck and on 2-3 occasions actually throwing my back out (or pulling something, who knows!) which one time landed me in the ER in 1993 (I could not sit, stand, I needed help on the toilet, walking, etc, was prescribed pain meds until it healed itself). The 2nd time when I was simply walking down two small steps from our house to our garage in 1997. The 3rd time being when I was pregnant, sciatica pain and had several adjustments to take care of it and the 3rd time being xmas eve of 04 and I have not healed from this one yet.
__________________
is there a heal to our sickness? i have been diagnosed with bilateral sacroilitis. i have the same symptoms and the pain is sometimes very severe to the point where i cant move out of bed or walk for weeks. God help us!!!!!

Last edited by siamchick; 03-20-2009 at 03:20 PM. Reason: added some more notes

 
Old 03-20-2009, 03:21 PM   #6
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sydney australia
Posts: 8
siamchick HB User
Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenacres View Post
Here's my past:
I just e-mailed our local "Spine Clinic" asking for an appointment. I am fed up with these other "two docs" that have been trying to help me. I am in terrible pain. I am attaching my test results for the last 10 months, tell me what you think. I've included my own notes as well from research I've done on the internet. I've been diagnosed with OA/DDD/and bilateral sacroilitis. But all conservative mesaures have been taken. Therapy, TENS, massage, ESI' (shots). I'm done! Can you all offer your opinion on my next route? They haven't called back yet to make an appointment for me. THANK YOU.

SUMMARY of findings:

Here are my test results and/or my own notes that I've been keeping track of.

September, 2005 (TODAY!)
Started feeling more and more pain on R side. Pain is in middle of lower back, R hip area, R buttock down whole front/back side of leg. I also feel pain very low end of my tailbone a lot. I also had an annual eye appt. yesterday and informed him of my continuous dry eyes. He examined me and said I do indeed have very dry eyes. He said to take some OTC like Refresh eyes and if that doesn't help, he'll write me a Rx. I went to my Chiro on 9/7 and said he didn't know what else he could do for that condition. He said I could go back to MC. I made myself an appointment with the spine clinic in Marshfield. I have also been experiencing more and more uring leakage and reduced sexual drive and lack of lubrication.
August 11, 2005
R - SI Joint shot (about one week of relief).
July 21, 2005
SI Joint shot in R. (about one week of relief)

June - 2005
Broke out in a horrible rash on the backs of my legs, backs of my arms and inner thighs. Went to doctor and he could not explain the itchy rash, but put me on tapering dose of Prednisone. The rash subsided and I felt so good "overall".

May - 2005
Right Sacroilitis (diagnosed by Osteopathic Surgeon)
Had one cortizone shot in the right SI Joint. Only helped for about a couple of weeks. Started feeling pain early on during vacation 2nd week of June. Regretted not having the 2nd one just before I left because I did feel good for a while.

CERVICAL SPINE MRI (Feb 2005)

Slight loss of disk signals at C3-4, C4-5, C5-6 interspaces.

Very mild intradural impressions are seen at C4-5 and C5-6. - "A disk fragment may rupture through the thecal sac into the intradural compartment" My question: Doesn't this mean that I have disk fragments indenting the intradural compartments of these two vertebrae's?

Mild concentric disk bulging is evident at C4-5 and C5-6.

Mild/moderate bony foraminal stenosis on the left at C4-5 and C5-6. Direct neural impingement cannot be clearly confirmed.
Impression: Minimal discogenic degenerative changes are seen at C4-5 and C5-6 with no significant central stenosis. Mild or moderate bony left foraminal stenosis is seen at these levels. - My question: I've read several times that if there is bony stenosis you should not be getting chiropractic adjustments that it is extremely dangerous?

THORACIC SPINE XRAY (Feb 2005)
I did not get the report, but Dr. stated they were good with only minimal signs of arthritis.

LUMBAR SPINE MRI (Jan 2005)
Loss of disk signal and minimal loss of disk height at the L4-L5 level with ventral extradural impression.
On L3-L4, Facets are mildly hypertrophic here.
On L4-L5, axials show mild/moderate concentric disk bulging with superimposed midline posterior disk protrusion associated with some focal subannular signal; compatable with partial annular tear. This disk bulge does indent the central thecal sac slightly. Facets are mildly hypertrophic at this level.
On L5-S1, moderate hypertrophic facet arthropathy is present here.
My question: It appears by reading this and the research I've done that I have what is called "facet disease"? From L3 down to S1, all of my facets are hypertrophic. Then throw into the mix, bulging and a disk protrusion with a tear, that is indenting my thecal sac. This condition is not going to go away by itself.

SI Joints - show no clear erosive or cystic changes and no significant hyperostosis of the SI Joints. There is a small lipoma on the right sacral ala.

Evaluation from Chiropractor (October 2004)
High Occ on R
High Shoulder on R
High Pelvis on R
Left Convexity of Lumbar spine
Ankle pronation bilaterally
Fallen arch bilaterally
Hypokyphosis (Mild) thoracic spine
Hypolordosis (mild) lumbar spine
Reflexes - Patellar normal on Right and grade 1.5 sluggish on L
Lumbar orthopedic tests - Kemps test negative on L, Kemps test + on RIght with pain on left SI
Abnormal muscle contraction was noted on the hip in extension bilaterally.
Trapezius muscles revealed a myofascial trigger point tightness bilaterally
Lumbar erector muscles revealed hyperonicity on upper and lower and soreness in lower muscles
Hamstring muscles revealed tightness bilaterally
Medial joint line tender on the left
Plantar Fascia revealed soreness bilaterally
Joint fixation on T6, T7, the right SI and the left SI.
Tenderness to palpation at T6, T7, L5 and the right and left SI.

Xrays: Xrays taken of Sandra dated 9/29/04 are a two view lumbar series. AP Lumbar film demonstrates a levorotatory curvature of the lumbar spine of 7 degress between T12 and L4. There is also facet tropism on the right at L4 and L5. My note: Facet Tropism is also noted here - Facet Disease, this has to be what is causing most of my pain.
There is a mild internal rotation of the left pelvis. There appears to be some mild degenerative changes noted at the inferior sacroiliac joints bilaterally. Lateral lumbar film demonstrates a slight hyperlordosis. There is no evidence of disc degeneration or spondylosis. There is a slight retrolithsesis of L4 on L5
Bloodwork taken in September of 2004 ordered by my chiropractor revealed that I did not have Ankylosing Spondylitis or Rheumatoid Arthritis. My Hemoglobin showed HIGH red blood cells which indicates dehydration.

I have been seeing this Chiro office ever since 1984 for various occasions of pain in back and neck and on 2-3 occasions actually throwing my back out (or pulling something, who knows!) which one time landed me in the ER in 1993 (I could not sit, stand, I needed help on the toilet, walking, etc, was prescribed pain meds until it healed itself). The 2nd time when I was simply walking down two small steps from our house to our garage in 1997. The 3rd time being when I was pregnant, sciatica pain and had several adjustments to take care of it and the 3rd time being xmas eve of 04 and I have not healed from this one yet.
__________________
is there a heal to our sickness? i have the same symptoms and have been diagnosed with bilateral sacroilitis and the pain is sometimes very severe to the point where i cant move out of bed or walk for weeks. God help us!!!!!

 
Old 03-21-2009, 04:32 AM   #7
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Location: USA
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sammyo1 HB Usersammyo1 HB Usersammyo1 HB Usersammyo1 HB Usersammyo1 HB Usersammyo1 HB User
Re: Do you think surgery is warranted? (m)..

I read elsewhere of a women who got the artificial disc in her cervical, took her doctor along time to get it approved but he did & she is doing great. She did say her doctor had to appeal over & over. Just thought I would let you know that. Sam

 
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