Vets - Horner's Syndrome PostOp ACDF? - Spinal Cord Disorders Message Board

acdfouch · 04-08-2006, 07:50 AM

Vets,

I have seen about 5 or so people in the years that have posted about their postop horner's syndrome.

From what I gather, and what my NS told me, as long as the nerves (sympathetic) were not damaged during surgery, but merely stretched beyond what they liked, things will go back to normal.

It *SOUNDS* like the normal recovery time is anywhere from 1-3 months. I'm about 1.5 months in but no relief in sight. (no pun intended!)

For those that don't know, Horner's is a syndrome in which there is a triad of symptoms :

Droopy eyelid (the muscle that holds it up not working quite right)
Not sweating on that side of the head
A pupil that does not dialate properly in dim light

Soo.. Any of you old vets that had it post op... Is it gone? How long did it take? Was it an overnight thing and it was gone or was it gradual (very I'm assuming)

Thanks!!!

acdfouch · 04-18-2006, 06:07 AM

I guess I'll answer my own question

I'm happy to do so and report this.

Last night, as I walked into the bathroom, I saw what was an amazing sight!!!

Before turning on the lights, as I usually do, I glance over at my eye in the mirror to see a very small pupil on one side, and a very large one on the other... But something was different!

The one on the right actually GREW - granted, it was not 100% even with the other one, but you could easily tell (if you have ever seen horner's... its pretty wild to say the least - search images.google.com for horner's syndrom) that something was getting better!

Felt great.

I hope this is a win for not only this issue but any others I am healing from internally as well!

feelbad · 04-19-2006, 08:26 AM

i too have had horners since two weeks post op from a spinal cord surgery,it just "appeared one evening while I was in the rehab hospital and had just been transferred from my surgical hospital the day before.I was indeed rather shocked and scared to death that I had either some sort of spinal fluid leak at the op site of my spinal cord or was having a stroke.my L pupil was and still is,now over two years post op still very constricted.i suffered actual permanent damage to my SNS at the c 8 spinal nerve level.along with a huge list of other damage.I also have a droopy R lid and the lower lid of the L eye is also droopy too.it looks kind of like a sort of swelled lower lid?? thats the best i can describe it right now.all of the droopy crap is always worse when I am really tired.I don't know why both of my lids in both eyes ended up somewhat effected.no one really can tell me that part of it.tho I have regained some ability to sweat on my afected side,the actual constrictionof the pupil and the droopy crap will never go away from what i have been told.

just what part of your SNS was affected that triggered the horners?Or what did you have surgey on that triggered the damage?

all it takes is to have "something' hit or damage some area of your SNS to result in horners.horners is actually a symptom of sns damage.i also have other problems that i have been dealing with besides the horners that are actually attributed to just the actual SNS damage.mine will never go away at anytime.were you told that yours would actually somehow eventually resolve itself?considering the horrid widespread nerve and spinal tract damage that is causing all kinds of secondary conditions and godawful pain syndromes,the horners really IS pretty low on my big list of real concerns.I mean it really doesn't actually cause or really affect any big things in me,and since there really is no actual treatment for this,I really don't think about this particular syndrome too much.

what is your actual medical problem or damage?Marcia

acdfouch · 04-19-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelbad

i too have had horners since two weeks post op from a spinal cord surgery,it just "appeared one evening while I was in the rehab hospital and had just been transferred from my surgical hospital the day before.I was indeed rather shocked and scared to death that I had either some sort of spinal fluid leak at the op site of my spinal cord or was having a stroke.my L pupil was and still is,now over two years post op still very constricted.i suffered actual permanent damage to my SNS at the c 8 spinal nerve level.along with a huge list of other damage.I also have a droopy R lid and the lower lid of the L eye is also droopy too.it looks kind of like a sort of swelled lower lid?? thats the best i can describe it right now.all of the droopy crap is always worse when I am really tired.I don't know why both of my lids in both eyes ended up somewhat effected.no one really can tell me that part of it.tho I have regained some ability to sweat on my afected side,the actual constrictionof the pupil and the droopy crap will never go away from what i have been told.

just what part of your SNS was affected that triggered the horners?Or what did you have surgey on that triggered the damage?

all it takes is to have "something' hit or damage some area of your SNS to result in horners.horners is actually a symptom of sns damage.i also have other problems that i have been dealing with besides the horners that are actually attributed to just the actual SNS damage.mine will never go away at anytime.were you told that yours would actually somehow eventually resolve itself?considering the horrid widespread nerve and spinal tract damage that is causing all kinds of secondary conditions and godawful pain syndromes,the horners really IS pretty low on my big list of real concerns.I mean it really doesn't actually cause or really affect any big things in me,and since there really is no actual treatment for this,I really don't think about this particular syndrome too much.

what is your actual medical problem or damage?Marcia

Marcia,

I am REALLY sorry to hear about your horners syndrome.

Let me give you the quick version

I had surgery (ACDF C5/6) on February 27th.

Three days after surgery when I was home, I looked in the mirror and saw a droopy eye lid and a SMALL (I mean VERY) pupil on the right side. That is where I had my incision. All the work was done from the right side.

I, like you, was beyond scared. On the way to the hospital, after freaking ou t and starting to sweat, I found that I did not sweat on that side of the forehead. Made me feel even better! (At this time, I had no idea what was wrong with me keep in mind). I don't think I noticed the droopy eye lid at this time, but it was there.

I was told by my NS and a Neuorlogist at the hospital that as long as my nerves were not INJURED during the surgery, chances are things would go back to normal - it would just be a bit.

And I've grown VERY impatient over the past month and a half waiting for a change. It was amazing to watch my pupil actually grow in the dark for the first time - albiet at a VERY VERY slow rate. It still doesn't get as big as the other, but it does happen.

In regards to your condition, if it was brought on during surgery, I would imagine the same holds true for you? If you weren't injured, perhaps it will go back? Nerves apparently heal an INCH a month. If you were stretched / hit low in the SNS, perhaps it is just taking its time? I would also imagine ANY recovery of the three symptoms (sweating, drooping, dialation) must be encouraging? And also a sign of future recovery?

I'll certainly continue to post any updates here.

Please feel free to check back and best of luck to you!

While it is not a "medical" condition in terms of actually effecting something like eyesight, it is VERY difficult to deal with - I know first hand.

feelbad · 04-20-2006, 06:41 AM

Very interesting discovery isn't it?i too was soo freaked out when I saw that in the mirror.from what I was told at the time when my physiatrist at the rehab hosp called my neurosurgeon i was told 'it is just due to the nerve damage' that was it.i didn't find out til much later when I was home and actually able to get on the computer and do some research on horners and the actual causes that I found out that my SNS had indeed been damaged.yours could very well have just taken a 'hit' and will recover.I know mine wont.the thing is,if all the work on you was actctally done on your R SIDE,the sides of the vertebral column are where the sns chain actually run and they kind of 'go into"the spinal cord thru the actual side of it.

unfortunetly,there is no real way to know for sure whther your sns was just hit or actually damaged,you kind of have to go by the symptoms.there is also the sympathetic and the parasympathetic that will show damage in many ways,or you will notice specific differences in things like the loss of perastalsis(i have this only on the r side of my body which also has brown sequard syndrome)changes in your BP and heartrate,if you look up just what the sns and the para,and just kind of go down the list and see if anything listed there has changed,you would be able to tell much more about the extent of your injury.i have alot of the signs and symptoms of changes in the things that are governed by the sns,so thats when my doc told me that any real good chances of my horners actually resolving itself were pretty slim as the damage was too much and will not come back, for me at least.

having actual changes in your pupil at this point IS a very good sign,really.my pupil size has not changed at all or reacted any differently since day one.i am just trying to figure out why in the heck my upper lid in the opposite eye is so droopy.i can understand the horners side with that lower lid being like it is,but cannot find answers for whats going on with the R one,the unaffected side.iif there is one huge thing i have found tho during the last two and a half years or so,its that once you have damage to any spinal nerves or actual tracts,ANYTHING is possible to occur.I have experienced some of the most freaky,painful excruciating pains and off the wall sensations that are way too bizarre to actually describe to anyone enough so they could actually understand just what I am taliking about.just plain freaky.everyday is different in some way than the day before.something is always changed from when I go to bed the night before and wake up in the morning.my whole body seems affected in some way from the damage done at my C 7 C8 and the T1 nerve levels.I didn't even know that we actually even had the C 8 nerve til it was damaged,and I was an EMT/firefighter for over 15 years.never knew that at all.I always was taught that we only had the seven c spine vertebrae,but no one ever said that there was actually a c 8 nerve there,just dosent have a vertebrae to go along with it(poor thing).unfortunetly for me,right at the c 8 nerve level is also where the big "junction' of many nerves pass thru and also where some of the cranial nerves also pass down to and then loop back up into the head again.this is where my sns was damaged at.

I really hope your progress continues to the point where you no longer have the "unmatched" pupils.it is a bit off setting to keep seeing this in the mirror.I have freaked out many a new doc or surgeon(many more nurses tho) when they have noticed this without knowing about the horners.please keep me posted.Marcia