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Old 11-21-2009, 06:46 AM   #1
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Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

CERVICAL SPINE AREA MRI C1-C7/BEGINNING OF T1 AREA
Normal vertabral body and height and alignment. Mild disk space narrowing C6-7 similiar to prior study with mild hypertrophic spurring, degenerative loss of disk signal all cervical levels.
IMPRESSION
C6-7: Bilateral neural foraminal stenosis greater on left. There is a mild disk bulging.
No evidence for lateralizing disk herniation or spinal stenosis. Cervical cord normal in size and homogeneous in signal intensity. Craniovertebral junction normal.
IMPRESSION
MILD CERVICAL DEGENERATIVE DISEASE MOST PROMINENT AT THE C6-7 LEVEL. INTERVAL DEVELOPMENT OF MILD BILATERAL NEURAL FORAMINAL STENONIS AT THE C6-7 LEVEL.


THORACIC AREA MRI
This is a MRI/MRI-T-spine w/o contrast.
Multisequence, multiecho NRI of the thoracic spine
Normal vertebral body and height and alignment. Mild disk narrowing and hypertrophic spurring involving multiple mid and lower thoracic levels. schmorl node involving superior endplate T11. No MR evidence for lateralizing disk herniation or spinal stenosis. Thoracic cord normal in size and homogeneous in signal intensity. Marrow signal unremarkable
IMPRESSION:
Mild thoracic degenerative disease.

SO, O.K THE SCHMORL NODE IS LISTED UNDER INVESTIGATION IN THE BIG MEDICAL LIBRARY UNIVERSITY BOOK AS BEING SYMPTOMATIC AND THEIR ETIOLIGICAL SIGNICANCE FOR BACK PAIN Is CONTROVERSIAL..meaning I have good days and I have complaining days with pain and it is all in the patients head....pretty much, no actual proof?

I have stenosis in the neck area and ouch all the time...the pain is constant and more severe with just turning head left, right, up or down. Fatigue of this area as the day goes on..Being on the computer is just brutal for me that is why I do not keep conversations active on this board but I do love reading and seeing how other people are making the best with what they have?
My thoracic area discomfort becames painful as the same as the cervical does, as fatique sets in from the spurring areas?

The spurring is the problem with my fatigue, mostly stabbing me in my spine as I get active at the beginning of the day....as the day goes on the flare up sets in. IS THERE ANY KIND OF SURGERY FOR THIS? I HAVE NO EVIDENCE FOR STENOSIS IN THIS AREA.

No, I do not want any professional therapy or physical therapy. I just want your input from healthboards of how do I cope with this and make the best of each day? I just have to learn to slow down on my daily activies and my driving. I can med up and than I over stress my condition and than bammm, I am down in bed. I am trying to get to prevent the episodes and the vomiting, severe neck and thoracic trauma (twisting, turning, bending, etc.. that sets me into throwing up and being mobilized in bed for a couple of days with delbilitating pain...
I may end up just getting (the old age factor, ageing and deteriorating) faster because of the damage that is being done to my spine with the spurs??? Thank you for your input and now I will go and med up! Have a great day even if you r just laying low. Thank you in advance.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:21 AM   #2
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

have you actually seen a good neurosurgeon just for a good in depth consult eval or his "impression' of all of this yet? i am just wondering if you actually have seen one, what he/she thought about some of these findings as correlating to your pain? the degenerative loss of disc signal at all c spine levels kind of has be stumped here a bit? i have never seen this in an MRI before? it could mean alot of possibles. like a type of 'overly dessicated" area within each disc type thing? its kind of an odd duck there actually. you usually see more of just degenerative disc disease but not along with the loss of actual disc signals, espescially thru out an entire block of specific discs like yours has?

the one thing i CAN tell you here is that even pretty mild disc issues can cause pain only because the disc itself does contain pain fibers in them.do you know exactly what a schmorls node actually is? if not, it is usually or in many cases a congenital defect where it is actually 'herniated"? but instead of the disc protruding outward from its place in the cloumn, it actually goes up and into the endplate INSTEAD of outward. in your particular case, this is at the superior or top endplate of your T11 vertebrae. and again, just a possible pain generator. even small findings can create some levels of real pain even tho the findings don't appear too overly bad upon like an MRI at times? its all in what is being affected and how severely in most cases. and as with most MRIs or other scans,at times something that 'appears" to be "only' mild or moderate can actually be much more severe when a surgeon actually goes in and does a surgery? alot of things just cannot be truely seen with any real scan only because this is NOT an actual picture of exactly how things are in there, ONLY a mere scan of any given area.

just as a quick example of what i am saying? one poster here named sammy01 actually had, ONLY when the NS went IN during the actual surgery(this did NOT ever actually show upon the MRI she had just had pre op) a c 7 disc that had actually collapsed and fragmented and was lying ON her spinal cord. that was a shocker, let me tell ya. but that is how bad certain things just can be in reality but not even found during ac contrasted MRI.

but i would seriously seekout some opinons here from some good neurosurgeons or really experienced spinal surgeons as to what their overall impressions of your MRI results and what a good neuro exam done by them really shows. its always a matter of the MRI, a neuro exam where with certain issues they would see or feel actual changes/indications of findings based upon ypur responses to certain stimuli too during that exam, and of course you very OWN signs and symptoms that you tell them. as well as other possible testing that can determine pain generators or nerve flow impairment like an EMG does. while bone spurring can create some pain situations in us, the areas impacted by them and by how much really would be the bigger indicator as to is this the actual pain generator or is it something else up there? believe me, you do not want to have ANY actual surgery til you and your NS just know for certain what IS or ARE the actual pain generators or it could be a wasted surgery and you still have the problems, ya know what i mean?

but i too am really curious about that signal loss thru out the whole entire cervical area up there? but just DO strart seeking out actual opinions from specialists as to what this all means for you. wheneer you see an NS vs only looking at what any given radiologist has written as what HIS interpretation of what he saw on your films, t like getting a second opinon done on the films. most specialists don't even bother really looking at the rads opinion much and prefer to actually do their OWN read of your films, hich IS coming from at times many many years of looking both inside and outside of peoples spinal areas. much more in depth really. THEY just know much much more as to how particular findings actually look based upon seeing films,THEN going inside? but this is what i would do right now if i were you, seek out some evaluations and consults with one or two seperate non affiliated(in the same group) NSs or spinal surgeons. they will just be able to explain things in terms you will understand instead of not really knowing anything for certain about the actual findings, only what YOU are feeling? i do hope this helped somewhat since it was not exactly what you asked? you just really need to find out first before anything here just what ARE the real pain generators. i am willing to bet that any stenosis, depending upon how truely severe this is, would be a good possible pain generator alone. please keep me posted as to what you find out. good luck hon, Marcia
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3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 11-23-2009, 07:59 PM   #3
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

I am going to read more here, but feelbad FYI, I have whole sections of discs that are blacked and have no signal. The C's they took our were black, those that are left are are black on the MRI. I have a couple sections of T's and lumbar L5/S1 is also no signal. Bascially what they saw when they went in my cervical was the discs were all dried out and messed up. There was no water/chemical content left to produce signal. Like old dried out rubber tires, hard as rock and jagged and a mess.

I also had a disc fragment that went undetected on MRI in my cervical and SURPRISE they found it in my first surgery. It was a fairly large piece that migrated . Hidden behind the ligament by the way it was lying.

Can they clean spurs - yes, is it possible for them to grow back YES - and mine did within 1 year - and now it grew more and is not just bone spur but ridges of bone spur.

Sunshine1973 - Sounds like you are learning what routine works for you.

Last edited by PNo; 11-23-2009 at 08:47 PM.

 
Old 11-24-2009, 06:50 AM   #4
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

Hi, Thanks for your comforting words. Yeah I will talk to my doctor about an appt to see a neurosurgeon. My doctor, I feel just does not want me to get to a place where I may regret him sending me? He is good for me but I am really needing to get this situation checked out thoroughly? Bits and pieces of information and medications are just not working for me?? I will update you all when I get to the appt and any new results. Thank you...
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:54 AM   #5
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neckpatient View Post
I am going to read more here, but feelbad FYI, I have whole sections of discs that are blacked and have no signal. The C's they took our were black, those that are left are are black on the MRI. I have a couple sections of T's and lumbar L5/S1 is also no signal. Bascially what they saw when they went in my cervical was the discs were all dried out and messed up. There was no water/chemical content left to produce signal. Like old dried out rubber tires, hard as rock and jagged and a mess.

I also had a disc fragment that went undetected on MRI in my cervical and SURPRISE they found it in my first surgery. It was a fairly large piece that migrated . Hidden behind the ligament by the way it was lying.

Can they clean spurs - yes, is it possible for them to grow back YES - and mine did within 1 year - and now it grew more and is not just bone spur but ridges of bone spur.

Sunshine1973 - Sounds like you are learning what routine works for you.
Yes, I am settling down with the symptoms and trying to get into a rountine......The ups and downs of this situation is taking away my daily living fun days, you know? Thank you for your comforting words, I will keep you posted with any new information on this.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:36 AM   #6
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

wow NP, i guess i never heard you mention THAT one. just what in the heck actually causes something like THAT to even occur? is this an actual disease process that actually has some type of name or does this just 'happen' somehow? i just cannot even imagine this type of thing happening ya know what i mean? nothing ceases to amaze or shock me anymore when it comes to what can just exist within our spinal. Marcia
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3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 11-24-2009, 11:35 PM   #7
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Re: Is there any surgery to help correct the spurring areas?

Loss of signal is actually a very common finding, but most people have maybe one or two levels that are bad. I have discussed it before with several people, it's kind of the thing that scares me the most because I have others that are going that bad too besides the ones that are already identified and I am just hoping they figure some way to help the discs in people besides replacing them. This is why I stopped work - I decided to take care of myself and stall the process as much as I could, I am only just over 50.

I understood it as they explained it to be the degenerative disc disease that precipatated all my spondy and everything that has come after. The discs went bad, I guess they had been deteriorating even when I didn't have any symptoms. The doctors all told me they do not know what causes this on everyone. Sometimes it is simple aging, or damage from accidents, and some people start early and they do not know why. I did lead a very active, sports, running, etc, life. My family has several people with it, my niece was found to have early disc dessication at 19. She is afraid of what she faces down the line, but I told her they will find better things by the time she needs it.

Sunshine: here is what I do about those fun days. I live day to day, and get up and decide how I feel and what I can do on that day. When I have a good day - I try to really take advantage of it and sometimes almost over-fill it with an outing - but then I pay. I keep trying to learn to pace myself. Not do too little, and not do too much. That is what I mean by routine - I have learned what works for me and how to calm flares as fast as possible.

Thinking of you and will be interested in your next visit.

 
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