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Old 04-17-2010, 05:43 AM   #1
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Cord Contact What means on MRI?

C-5 C-6 level demonstrates posterior left paracentral disc herniation effacing the ventral CSF space with cord contact, flattening and encroaching on the exiting left C-6 nerve root. There is mild right foraminal narrowing secondary to uncinate process hypertrophy.

Thanks to anyone who can interpret that.

Last edited by InNJ; 04-19-2010 at 01:15 PM.

 
Old 04-20-2010, 05:16 AM   #2
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

I just got an answer from my chiropractor about the MRI if anyone is interested and has the same situation. He said that this "cord contact" does cause symptoms but because they feel the disc can retract this is not as serious as it sounds.

 
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:50 AM   #3
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

have you actually had ANY consults/evals with an actual neurosurgeon yet?? if not, i honestly would NOT be seeing a chiro until you have. when there is that level of real cord contact going on, and any given chiro is simply doing what ARE basically 'blind' adjustments way up in that c spine level, one wrong 'adjustment' not done exactly perfectly could really send that pronoucned of a herniation right straight into your cord even further. this just would be the very safest thing for YOU to not do right now until you have consulted with a good neurosurgeon to really truely know your risks to that cord most importantly.

did that chiro have the ability to actually read even the hardfilms or did you just show him what the rad only interpretted in that report? believe me, what ANY rad actually states as any real findings in any given rad report is ONLY their own opinion and not always as severe or as it actually really is or could possibly be? this is why you seriously DO need to be seeing a good NS to have him do HIS read of your hardfilms. they just know soooo much more than any mere rad or esp any chiro would.

this type of finding just has the potential, esp up in that c spine level to be devstating to you if certain things are done the wrong way or surgical intervention is not given. this is already appearing to impair the flow of CSF here so it IS encrouching upon that cord area pretty hard. i would just not take ANY real chances here dwayne. seriously, i live with a spinal cord injury and it is the most insane and bizarre type of injury you can end up with all depending upon exactly what areas inside that cord become irreversably damaged. was there ANY mention at all of the word 'myelomalacia' anywhere in that report? thats one thing that would show the severity of cord impact.

i would just really try and get that consult eval with a good NS here before doing anything else just so you know what it is you are really dealing with once that NS looks and does HIS real read of your films combined with his hands on neuro eval where he will test certain key areas to check possible areas of cord invovement with impact too(our bodies just show real signs of true cord impact with certain hands on testing). both things are just needed for you to really truely know for certain right now, trust me. ya just don't want to mess around when its up in your c spine. good luck with this, please let me know what you find out. sorry i wasn't able to get down here sooner when you first posted this.

what exacting symptoms are you displaying right now? marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 04-23-2010, 12:44 PM   #4
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

Thank you Marica for replying and appreciate the info!!

Today I had a follow up with my pain doctor for my 3rd injection which did not work. He actually gave me a referral to see a neurosurgeon because he said surgery would be considered unless I wanted to live with the pain. I asked him directly about the "cord contact" and he said -yes that is why you are having the symptoms along with the nerve contact. (I guess that is what the encroaching part means?) I can only assume that they don't let you know about the "reality" of it until getting through the conservative stuff but that is really wrong because like you say the chiro can do one wrong adjustment and make it worse. Why do the chiro's downplay it? It really get's me.

My symptoms: Pain in the left side of my neck and the left part of my spine with burning at my left shoulder blade especially if I'm sitting, walking or on my feet working for long periods. When it get's really bad the pain locks up my neck. I also get numbness on the left side of my face and left fingers and tingling on the top part of my left hand that has been getting worse since the last injection which was in the facet joints. My neck gets into knots constantly and at night I wake up from the pain. I try to push them out with my thumb but they come right back. I also just got a clicking in the left part of my jaw that I think has something to do with the knots. When I breath sometimes I get tingling that goes from my chest down into my hands. Lately at times I've been feeling spacey when the pain get's bad.

I didn't see myelomalacia in the report. I guess I'm lucky because that sounds deadly. I hear what you are saying about the cord and I really appreciate your input!! I see the neurosurgeon on 13th of May to go over options for surgery. I hope it isn't a Friday! I'm not going to have any adjustments until after talking with the neurosurgeon either.

What happened with your experience with that if you don't mind me asking? Thanks!

Last edited by InNJ; 04-23-2010 at 01:18 PM.

 
Old 04-25-2010, 10:06 AM   #5
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

while not seeing the myelomalacia is really a good thing at this point, it is NOT deadly. all it is when it does show up in an MRI like your situation with cord contact, it would mean that the real cord contact is very stong. strong enough to actually start a granualizing of the impacted neural tissue of the delicate cord tissue? its just what occers when cord contact does not allow the area to be bathed with the needed CSF among other things so it will start to kind of "die off' what was once good healthy cord tissue.

i had the myelo show up after my spinal cord surgery as its way of getting rid of what was bacically like "scar tissue' that was IN my cord? it will pop in and then after the tissue thats not 'good' granualizes to a certain point, our bodies little "clean up crew' called the macrophages just kind of swoop in and actually kind of eat it up and remove it from the cord area? really crazy stuff there.

my cord injuries were the result of being born with what was bascially a glob of venous fed blood vessles smack in the left lateral aspect of my cord at the c 8 nerve level? did not know i actually had this sucker til i herniated a disc in my c spine and had my very first ever MRI done on it that just showed it as an 'incidental finding' in there? i DO hate those incidental findings since i ahve had other strange things also pop up on other types of scans too. i have one insane body let me tell ya. but what i did not know was that this little glob which is actually called a cavernous hemangioma had actually bled in there too? by the time i finally got up to the U of MN and saw the head of NS up there(2 other seemingly knowledgable NSs i had seen prior had not seen enough of these things and gave me very conflicting info before this one),this thing was much much more impactful than the other two NSs had even known about at all? it was taking up a space of about 4x6x8 mms of my cord and according to this amazingly knowledgable NS who had well over thirty years of experience and had seen many hundreds of what i just happened to have told me it was an active bleeder and i was in all likleyhood going to have another bleed fairly soon. that one would have taken up the rest of what little remaining cordspace i had left and paralyzed me from around the upper chest on down if it was not removed soon.

since it was NOT in a favorable spot for resection, i had to make the absolute worst decision of my freaking life here. whether to have it removed and taking very definite hits to the nerves thatr ran to my legs and the nerves to my fine motor muscles in my hands. they were just in the way right between the cavernoma and the cord wall so thay had to be gone thru just to get to it at all? but if i did not go ahead and have this removed then, i was eventually going to end up in a wheeelchair with nothing but very large motor function actually left in my arms. i would be able to possibly hiug someone, but do nothing with my hands anymore? scarey,just scarey to have to decide that crap and then go ahead with it. but i did have the very very best of NSs i could have possibly had who had done this type of surgery on many many patients, so i at least knew i was in great hands there. that WAS something. i also knew pre op that i would definitely be going to some acute rehab facility post op too, just to try and regain what we already knew would be hit and somewhat lost, and anything else that may suffer collatteral damage that could not be avoided?

i did end up with a completely knocked out L leg that just crumbled when i went to even try to stand and put wieght on it at all that i DID manage to regain thru ALOT of hard work in acute rehab,but i also lost 8 fine motor muscles in my L hand too which is why my typing just looks so crappy now? some of those muscles did regain more nerve flow in just trying to constantly use them,so that was a good thing. and he managed to keep my R hand from getting ANY damage at all, so i AM thankful for that one let me tell ya.

the problem when anything at all actually damages our spinal cords in any way shape or form is that unlike the brain, where you CAN actually suffer some pretty profound injuries that if that are not in the more 'key' area, a person can go on to live a perfectly normal life with no losses of abilitys, with the cord not so much. it is not that forgiving since like every single teeny tiny mm area of neural tissue in it actually simply 'does something'. it governs something creates something trasfers ALL of our function messages too and from the periphery to and from the brain where it gets processed and sent back so a function can be performed in some way? every tiny little bit of cord just matters, some, in a much much more profound way. that is the biggest reason i told you that seeing that chiro with what you have as some level of real contact there would NOT be a good idea at all.

i know you posted this in the backboards too and jenny told you what she did as well? up in that c spine, there is just not alot of room with everything that is up in that very narrow space that just can be affected in some way with anything that can really impact that c spine that could cause you further injury. jenny has been thru alot more with her crappy stuff than i have but we both have spinal cord injuries that just suck wayyy much more than i ever possibly could have imagined. it is something that no one would ever actually want to have happen to them or someone they love either. it can get pretty crazy after cord injury depending upon what actually becomes damaged too. i ended up with them also somehow hitting my sympathetic nervous system either IN the cord itself(at the outlet), or since that symp chain that starts right AT that c 8 level where my cav was then runs down along the outside of our spinal columns just was highly vulnerable, they hit it there? we really don't know but i did end up with one hell of a nasty pain syndrome from that hit called RSD? its in my R knee and has killer pain that does not respond to any level of even the strongest narcotics either.

the symp damage has actually created the worst part of some of my injury symptoms overall. it just governs sooo much of our body system functions? one thing i would really like to know here,and this would kind of tell as far as impact to your cord goes,just how much real compression may be going on there too? when they hit the area right below your kneecap with that tiny hammer? what do your lower legs do in response to it? is it what would be considered a 'normal, slight type of 'bounce out", or a rather abrupt or "brisk" type of quicker response? this really is a rather important question and answer. you can try doing this yourself by simply using the heavy handle end of like a butter knife and just tapping that area directly beneath that knee cap? let mew know exactly what your response is in each leg if you could?

seeing an NS for the eval consult will tell you much much more about exactly how impacted your cord truely is? the more in depth type of hands on neuro eval they do using very very specific types of testing can actually tell them even without looking at an MRI just how impacted that cord actually is. they just 'know' what the right tests are and what normal and abnormal responses are. but you DO need that eval right now just to find out what IS impacting what. if you are actually having any symptoms in your legs, it can easily be stemming from some level of cord impact, OR you could also have another issue down in the lumbar area too like i do. anything is just possible when it comes to our CNS and the spinal cords specifically. but the nerve root youhave compromised IS doing what they normally do when impacted like your is. and that too just needs to be released as well.

i gotta stop now my fingers are doin their happy dance here. i hope this helped some. please let me know how things are going dwayne. i do wish you luck. just please stay away from that chiro til you know exactly what you are dealing with and what that NS also tells you. i just would NOT take any chances or real risks with what you actually have there. believe me, things can always become much worse than they are. marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 05-02-2010, 09:11 AM   #6
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

hey dwayne? you doin okay? haven't seen you post here in a while thats all. just checkin up on how things are going for you. marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 05-04-2010, 02:04 PM   #7
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

Hi Marcia Thanks for the info on the last post. You are really knowledgable! Appreciate your help and advice!! I see my NS next week so looking forward to getting an idea of what I need etc. The waiting is tough especially since I'm getting worse in my neck. I'm on vacation right now at my brothers house in Florida until Fri so not checking in as much. I felt maybe getting away may take my mind off of the pain and bills etc. and I had it scheduled for awhile so couldn't get a refund. (Doesn't the airlines know about back pain?? LOL) I find the pool is great for stretching but when I come back in and sit down it kills my neck. I just checked my knees and it jerks up in the air. Good or bad? Thanks.

Last edited by InNJ; 05-05-2010 at 06:11 AM.

 
Old 05-08-2010, 10:25 AM   #8
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Re: Cord Contact What means on MRI?

sorry it took me so long getting back down here, i keep running out of time here which i am again unfortuently today as well,sorry. but i just wanted to mention to you that if you did actually have THAT very 'brisk' and 'hyper' type of reaction to that particular test, you most definitely DO have what is called hyper reflexia? this in almost every case comes from having a bit more direct impact upon your cord enough to disrupt the upper motor neurons within the cord itself. it just shows your compression has either progressed if this was NOT like this before, or just 'more' impacted than it once was? getting in to see the neurosurgeon for a very thorough hands on eval with their particular level of deeper testing IS needed sooner Vs later here? esp if this was NOT actually even present at any past neuro evals and is now kinda thing? you just really DO NEED to know exactly how that cord contact actually is right now. how long ago was that last MRI? and did it also use contrast? you may have mentioned this but i cannot get to the info while typeing this. just DO get to a neurosurgeon for HIS much deeper eval and consult on what may need intervention right now dwayne. this IS one of those better safe than sorry types of situations that needs attention soon. esp if that hyper reflexia is new? just am tryin to make certain you are okay in all this. good luck there big guy, and DO please keep me posted. i will try and get here much sooner, i promise, lol. marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 05-10-2010, 01:53 PM   #9
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Re: MRI says Cord Contact

Hey Marcia, The NS tested everything and my legs really popped up when he hit them!

From all that he recommended double ACDF with fusion and plating using peek interbody graft and demineralized bone matrix. Ever hear of that? He said this is new vs taking it from the hip.

I also have numbness in the left part of my face. I thought this was from my back. He said this isn't from my back so he referred me for a brain MRI and to follow up with a neurologist.

He also did show me how the disc was in contact with the spinal cord (not really compressing it)and how the space around the cord in that area or the spinal fluid was decreased alot.

In a way it's a relief to know what's going on but nervous about what's ahead and the risks. I guess that is part of it.

Last edited by InNJ; 05-10-2010 at 02:17 PM.

 
Old 05-14-2010, 06:29 AM   #10
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Re: MRI says Cord Contact

sorry i didn't get back down here much sooner dwayne, just soo much on my little plate right now with all my crappy stuff hitting fans here ya know?

i am thinking, if this actually occured with BOTH legs when tested, that contact has to be pretty broadbased and more centrally located at that cord contact level with more heavy compression, just to even actually do that to BOTH legs at all? like with my situation, its only my L one that really took my cord damage hit the hardest, and in my R, luckily, my really great NS managed to keep the overall damage only on that L side. but i had a surgery into my cord, a much different story, but that reason for the hyper reflexia is pretty much the same.

when you mentioned in your PM that the pain you are feeling more 'up" i think it was was much more severe? just exactly what does that feel like compared to the areas where it is just not that severe? what are you exacting symptoms at this point right now(full body)? what did the NS say about your hands on exam? he must feel that things in at least two seperarte levels must be bad enough or he would not be doing the double fusion on you? i can honestly say that the difference for YOU and pain in that hip area exp if he were to actually use only YOUR own bone really IS what actually takes the longest time to heal and is much more painful thru out that whole hip area itself too. that hip graft when my hubby had his c 5-6 done using his own bone, took wayyy much more time to really heal and for that really constant ache and throb to actually get better too? he does NOT normally use ANY meds at all and he most definitely needed the oxy that was rxed for him for that vs the actual surgical area at his neck? just much more painful everytime you simply get up and use that hip as a in weight bearing? my then very young and very strong hubby also had to use an actual cane, something i thought i would NEVER ever see from him, he just NEEDED it. you can also actually grow some really insane types of actual scar tissue too within that bone as well? one of the guys i used to be on the FD with back when i had an actual life, has had nothing BUT bone issues at that hip graft site and is also now in PM after like 15 years becasue of THAT alone too mostly. so not using your own graft, while it can bring down the rate of fusion a bit(in some people), really IS in my opinion anyways, alot less impactful on the body as a whole in many other 'good' ways. you also simply 'feel" alot better much more quickly too without the at times pretty bad hip pain.

you just really DO ahve some pretty profound symptoms that do indicate this need to have that cord and level decompressed and rid that actual cord from any impact/contact well before it starts up the myelomalacia crap. which in most cases,a s this crap simply progresses onward, would eventually occur with actual cord contact now kind of thing(i do think i mentioned that whole process on the previous page??)? i just do think you are probably doing the very best thing for you here dwayne when you consider everything, and the pros and cons?

while i do not actually know much about YOUR type of bone graft they are goingto be using, i would very highly suggest that you simply DO research this as much as possible right now and make certain to keep a notebook ALWAYS handy and sitting out like on your kitchen counter so you can write down ANY really great questions you may think of day and NIGHT too? i used to do some of my best more in depth thinking while lying in bed at night and needed to directly go to that notebook like the second i thought of the questions or i would forget them?? it does help.

so when have they actually scheduled your surgery for? does this particular NS also require patients to also still use the c collars too? i believe in these myself a ton actually. this is just a well fitted actual splint that helps keep the patient from not only inadvertantly moving their neck in a sudden or bad way, but it also helps to actually keep those very crucial endplates always in contact with the graft and at the appropriate angles too? without one, its just way too easy for us to move our necks or actually sleep in a very bad posistion just becasue our heads and necks do move during the night at times,and not being properly supported)? even when you also have any hardware, they still offer a much better form of real true support and stabilization too. and you CAN ahve one fitted exactly for your own necksize too at any orthotics place? my first collar was way ytoo big and hard for me but my second surgery they actually finally told me that i could have had one fitted? i was ****** this was not mentioned the first go round, believe me. i had a very comfy one called a "miami J collar"? sooo much better than the stupid hard as a freaking rock philly style that is like the dinosaur of the c collar world?

honestly? when i had spinal cord stuff going on more heavily(and still do have to some degree now) my face too was/is also involved as well. it all depends more upon just how the nerve fibers within the cord itself actually travel upwards? there just are certain fibers like i do believe the trigeminal fibers(not the actual 'nerve" itself but some type of fibers kind of off shooting from this in some way?) do if i remember right? look up the dermatome just exactly where your numb area actually is in your face, then just see what actually innervates that area at all skin wise/sensory dermatome, then also try and track it back to the cranial nerve that innervates it(that more specific area). that should possibly help narrowing down possibilities there.

anything is just a possible once you get into the cord level crap, thats what i really learned the hard way. what exactly does that particular sensory loss/or even a parasthesia too actually feel like in there and where exactly is this located within the face? we also have other nerve too that come up thru the throat and inner neck area that CAN, depending, also casue parasthesias or numb spots or even pain too? but i am glad your NS is being very throrough here too by getting that scan done. you just really do not know what is going on inside anyones boy areas til you simply get that look inside. it may or may not actually show anything, but if anything, it would rule it out. there just really can be certain things we can have going on within the spinal that really CAN impact our faces all depending upon what is being impacted and where. that i DO know just from my own experiences. not all NSs actually truely even understand the more intricate types of inner connections or how the cord actually even innervates depending upon the tract cells in there two levels above and two levels below the level of a lesion at the outter vertebral level. my NS number two sure didn't, but found out a TON from NS number three who just had well over thirty years of experience and was also head teaching prof and head of NS at the U of MN where i was oh so lucky enough to find him for MY globby cord nightmare. i really really miss him. he retired on me in 06.

keep me posted dwayne and i promise i will try like heck to get all the way down to this spinal board at least popping in once a day or so. like i said, things are a bit crazy in my world right now for alot of different medical reasons too. ain't life grand. good luck hon and do keep me posted, Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 05-15-2010, 08:36 AM   #11
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Re: MRI says Cord Contact

Hi Marica Thanks for your your info! Appreciate it!! I can imagine what you mean by stuff hitting the fans. It is great that you take time to share your knowledge!!

I just got a BUN blood test done yesterday and go next Friday for the brain MRI. I don't get the Trigeminal Neuralgia because I don't get the extreme pain as is described from what I read online about it. I guess the MRI will say more about that. The numbness get's more pronounced when I'm sitting and starts on the left side in the middle scalp (almost like I can draw a line.) It goes down to my jaw and is going more into the eye area where as before it just stayed in the cheek area. I noticed that when I use my massager on my left shoulder area it becomes more pronounced. That's why I don't understand how it has nothing to do with my neck. Another thing he said is that I have a slight tremor. I also feel nauseous all of the time but doesn't interfere with eating and feel dizzy but not that I have to sit down or can't drive because of it.

What I meant about the pain being up is I get flair up's and not referring to any part of my body if that is what you were saying. On some day's I feel the pain is down and manageable with meds and then boom the extreme pain comes along sometimes from sitting or standing but in other times I don't know why. The tingling and numbness in my arms happen more when I'm driving and other times come and go. The shoulder/back pain is a constant ache but get's really bad in muscle tightness along with my neck getting lumps when that happens. The tightness in my legs I mentioned to the NS and with the leg reaction etc. he grouped that into with the nerve and cord except for the face numbness. Sometimes I get confused because I tend to listen to what someone says as well as how they say it and most doctors are so unemotional about it per say and downplay it.

I guess since the surgery is soon I'm rethinking I haven't given this enough time etc. even though I know the cord stuff isn't something to wait on. Is this normal for everyone who get's close to surgery who is reading this? My pre op is on the 19th and surgery on the 26th ? It's for a double C5-6 and C6-7 anterior diskectomy with fusion and plating using PEEK interbody graft and demineralized bone matrix. I'm a truck driver so this really concerns me if I can continue my career in that because I have a federal job.

Thank's for the advice on the collar Marcia. I will have to check into that. Will let everyone know what happens! Have a nice and hopefully less pain free day!

 
Old 05-28-2010, 12:48 PM   #12
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Re: MRI says Cord Contact

Anyone following along with this and may have similar MRI results definitely check into ADR as an option. The fusion surgery I mentioned I cancelled and went with a surgeon who recommended disc replacement on one level vs fusion on two levels. I can say I feel way...more relaxed about this and have no second thoughts as I did with the prior scheduling.

 
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