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Old 02-03-2011, 04:52 PM   #1
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Need Help! Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

Hi All, will keep it brief and need advice from experiences and experts:

1. I have numbness and tingling in my left finger that has been going on for past two years now. Did several therapies, NCV tests and confirmed that I have ulnar nerve entrapment issues. at some point I started to see same symptioms in right hand too. Dorctor advised for surgery but I believe it cant be that both elbows went bad, I had no accident.

2. I have had some numbness/stiffness on my left upper back for sometime that comes and goes. Recently I had a very pinching pain that forced me to go see a Chiropractor. Chiropractor took X-rays and then concluded that some of my vertebrae were misaligned and it could be pincing the nerve now so we went for some spinal adjusting and it resolved the pain, however per Chiropractor the treatment needs to continue for few weeks to get full alignment.

However, detailed report presented by Chiropractor shows the following:

a. Hypolordosis of cervical spine. Mild degeneration at C4, C5, and C6. Osteoplyte visualized at the anterior portion of C5. Mild disc thinning at C4/C5, C5/C6, andL5/S1. Using Gonstead's X-ray analysis protocol, the patient ahs following Gonstead listings C3 PLS, C6 PRS, T1 PRS, T4 PLI, T8 PLI, T11 PLI, Sacrum PL, and left illium PL

b. Signs of Osteoarthiritis and disc degeneration at C4/C5, C5/C6, and L5/S1

His recommendations:

1. Specific chiropractic adjustments to remove vertebral restrictions to improve the biomechanics of spine,

2. Cervical pillow to aid in resporing the normal cervical curve which is between 35 and 45 degrees.

Now my question to experts is what do I do here? All this is without MRI or CT scan. Per the doctor, he seems to think that my ulnar nerve issues most probably are also the result of these findings.

Any information or help in understanding this would greatly help. Is Chiropractor the right person here?

Thanks

Last edited by sbbs99; 02-03-2011 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Title Change

 
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Old 02-03-2011, 05:20 PM   #2
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Re: Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

Most of the regular people here will tell you that they don't agree with using chiropractors for the neck. There are 2 arteries to the brain that go through the bones at C6 up to the C3. A bone spur in the wrong place and then adjusted, can cause strokes. Rare, but here in Connecticut, they passed a law forcing all chiropractors to explain the risks of neck manipulation and stroke and get it signed off by the patient as understanding the risks.

Now to your report. I don't know "chiropractor-eze" but I can tell you what hypolordosis is. Your neck and lumbar spine curve inward...that is called lordosis. Where it curves out in the mid back, it's called kyphosis. That is normal. But as we age, we start to lose the "lordotic" curve in our neck(and lumbar spine). That is also normal. But it can get to a certain point where loss of the curve is not normal and starts to cause pain(hypolordosis). If combined with osteoarthritis and herniated disks, you can end up with a condition called cervical spondylosis.

So according to this doc, you have started to lose more curve in your neck than you should for your age.

You also have an osteophyte seen at the front of C5...that is good because it is far away from the spinal cord or spinal nerves. An osteophyte is a bone spur cause by osteoarthritis and is very common.

He also says you have mild degeneration and that is normal with aging. So is mild thinning of the disks.

You didn't say how old you are so it's hard to say if he is just treating you for the symptoms of aging and nothing more.

If you are concerned, get your primary doctor to order an MRI of your neck. It can see things x-rays can't...like inside the vertebrae where the nerves/spinal cord are. No x-ray can see inside where the nerves are so his report that this is what is causing your pain is totally incomplete. How would he know? He can't see inside the vertebrae where the nerves are.

As for ulnar nerve entrapment in both elbows at the same time, it does occur and very frequently. So does carpal tunnel entrapment. For some reason, these nerve entrapment syndromes tend to develop symmetrically. Don't know why but so does rheumatoid arthritis, so much so it is part of the diagnostic criteria...symmetry. Has to hit the same joints on both sides of the body at the same time. So why it happens with these nerve tunnels, I don't know but it seems to also do both at once.

I would talk you to your primary doc. If you really suspect your neck, get the MRI. It will at the very least, help the chiropractor make sure he isn't hitting those arteries. And it will tell you if you have any bone spurs inside the vertebrae compressing those nerves. If not, then you know to skip the spine manipulations and see about getting those cubital tunnels opened up. Why treat the spine for problems in your elbows.

Hope this helps to explain a few things.

hugs.........Jenny

 
Old 02-03-2011, 05:34 PM   #3
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Re: Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

Quote:
Originally Posted by jennybyc View Post
Most of the regular people here will tell you that they don't agree with using chiropractors for the neck. There are 2 arteries to the brain that go through the bones at C6 up to the C3. A bone spur in the wrong place and then adjusted, can cause strokes. Rare, but here in Connecticut, they passed a law forcing all chiropractors to explain the risks of neck manipulation and stroke and get it signed off by the patient as understanding the risks.

Now to your report. I don't know "chiropractor-eze" but I can tell you what hypolordosis is. Your neck and lumbar spine curve inward...that is called lordosis. Where it curves out in the mid back, it's called kyphosis. That is normal. But as we age, we start to lose the "lordotic" curve in our neck(and lumbar spine). That is also normal. But it can get to a certain point where loss of the curve is not normal and starts to cause pain(hypolordosis). If combined with osteoarthritis and herniated disks, you can end up with a condition called cervical spondylosis.

So according to this doc, you have started to lose more curve in your neck than you should for your age.

You also have an osteophyte seen at the front of C5...that is good because it is far away from the spinal cord or spinal nerves. An osteophyte is a bone spur cause by osteoarthritis and is very common.

He also says you have mild degeneration and that is normal with aging. So is mild thinning of the disks.

You didn't say how old you are so it's hard to say if he is just treating you for the symptoms of aging and nothing more.

If you are concerned, get your primary doctor to order an MRI of your neck. It can see things x-rays can't...like inside the vertebrae where the nerves/spinal cord are. No x-ray can see inside where the nerves are so his report that this is what is causing your pain is totally incomplete. How would he know? He can't see inside the vertebrae where the nerves are.

As for ulnar nerve entrapment in both elbows at the same time, it does occur and very frequently. So does carpal tunnel entrapment. For some reason, these nerve entrapment syndromes tend to develop symmetrically. Don't know why but so does rheumatoid arthritis, so much so it is part of the diagnostic criteria...symmetry. Has to hit the same joints on both sides of the body at the same time. So why it happens with these nerve tunnels, I don't know but it seems to also do both at once.

I would talk you to your primary doc. If you really suspect your neck, get the MRI. It will at the very least, help the chiropractor make sure he isn't hitting those arteries. And it will tell you if you have any bone spurs inside the vertebrae compressing those nerves. If not, then you know to skip the spine manipulations and see about getting those cubital tunnels opened up. Why treat the spine for problems in your elbows.

Hope this helps to explain a few things.

hugs.........Jenny
Thanks for quick reply Jenny! I am 38 and no I didnt go to him just for my elbows (numbness in fingers). Two days ago my back was in pinching pain and in the same spot where I normally feel stiffness. The pain is now gone but stiffness remains. Per Chiropractor he says that he recommends at least 1-month of chiropractic adjustment before taking MRI, which eventually he will have to do as we progress. I agree, we cannot fix things that come with normal aging. I have tried a lot of treatments for my numbness so I thought why not give it a shot here too. My primary doctor actually asked me to get neck CT scan or MRI few months ago and I have been pushing it back until now when I am debating whether to get over it now or try Chiropractic adjustments for at least 30 days.

What are your thoughts?

 
Old 02-03-2011, 05:50 PM   #4
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Re: Need Help! Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

I would think it would be better to get it ASAP than to wait. If you have any bone spurs next to those arteries, you could stroke out so why wait.

And why wait for a month? So he can collect on you for a month before finding out it's your elbows and not your neck? Sounds a little fishy to me...no reason to wait and every reason to get it up front...except if you look at the financial aspect.

X-rays and MRIs show very different things so you can't even really compare them. If his intent was to show you how much better your neck is, then why not get one upfront and then another later? Could do the same if he compared x-rays to x-rays. But the MRI shows so much more, it isn't even comparable with an x-rays. I think he's just stalling to get more money before doing the MRI.....my personal opinion(and I have a chiropractor in the family).

I think your primary care doc was right...do the MRI or CT and then see the chiropractor if your neck is clear for him to work on. CT's show bone well. MRI's show soft tissues well...MRI is the way to go initially. Who knows...maybe your neck will be fine and the problem is in your elbows..save money and time!

If it shows problems, then at the very least, the chiropractor will know where the bone spurs are and if it's safe to do a manipulation and not give you a stroke.

By doing the MRI first, you are in a win/win situation all around.

That is what I would do.

gentle hugs........Jenny

 
Old 02-05-2011, 09:17 PM   #5
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Re: Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

hi Jenny,

I think I read on one of yuor posts you had a great surgeon in boston. Is there some way for me to get his name.

 
Old 02-06-2011, 07:23 AM   #6
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Re: Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

sbbs99, I have read your post. and will have to respond here real quick.

Never ever go to any Chiropractor to even touch your neck. They can cause severe damage to your neck eventhough they tell you they are the best and doctors are wrong.
Now I heard they have some sort of law how they can even cause stroke when they aligned the neck area.

do not do any adjustments etc on your neck, do not go to them. Stick with your doctors.

You MUST do an MRI. so it can show what is going on there. Doctors cannot do any surgery before there is any MRI.

Stop going to any chiropractor in order to fix your neck that is one thing. I went to one, and he made me worse. I do not know how much worse. I can tell never tell.

So MRI is the next thing to do.

How do you know you have never been in any car accident? perhaps when you have been a kid. I suspect.

So only doctors, ok buddy and it does not mean you have to do any surgery.
You be better off taking pain meds than going to any chiropractor. They think they are doctors but they are not. The neck area is a very DELILCATE place and you just do not want any chiropractor touching this area.

Sorry I got to go now. But that is my experience and a lot others here in our board.
Good Luck.

Let us know about your MRI. X-RAYS are not enough, they only show the bones. It can tell if your bones are broken.

MRI shows the disks(herniated/bulging) and some other things.

Good Luck, all the best, I hope I helped you some.
keep us posted and BE SAFE

So, no chiropractor for the Neck area. and do MRI as soon as possible. Then you will need to do the EMG.

Last edited by nochange; 02-06-2011 at 07:27 AM.

 
Old 02-06-2011, 07:32 PM   #7
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Re: Need Help! Hypolordosis and Osteoarthiritis

In short, I agree with all those that recommend avoiding chiropractic.

When you have signficant symptoms any "adjustment" can do more harm than good. I think chiropractic is good for people with no MRI spine abnormalities.Many neck spine problems are due to disc problems, spasm, or instability. Adjustments are far too risky.

In fact a good chiropractor would have you do an MRI and if the findings showed any type of damage or you reported symptoms as you have they'd refer you to a spine specialist (orth spine surgeon and/or neurosurgeon). I did see a chiropractor when I had neck pain. Based on my symptoms, an xray and his exam he offered massage for muscle tightness /spasm which I did utilize but he said I was not a chiro candidate as he could do more harm than good.
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Last edited by SpineAZ; 02-06-2011 at 07:34 PM.

 
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