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Old 09-12-2011, 03:07 PM   #1
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Question Lordosis, C5...

Right, let me explain my situation.

I was helping out in a pub back on 31st Dec 99. Slipped over, tried to make into a roll and landed on my C3-C5 vertabrae. Ever since then I have had neck pain. Now it goes from the base of my skull down the sides and back of my neck, over both shoulders and down the base of shoulder blades. Also, for about the last 2 n bit years, I wake up I can not move my arms and struggle to move my head as I have lost all feeling in my arms. It takes about 10-15min to regain feeling. The muscles are as hard as a concrete floor. Over the years, I have had xray, physio - traction upto a lot of kgs, xray, accupuncture, manipulation, xray, injections, massages, physio - TENS. I also tried orthapaedic beds & pillow's to. Nothing worked. Had another xray a year ago as well. Though it was looked it, they missed things on it and the specialist WAS NOT happy! On the side xray they missed the possible collapsed disc (at the front part of the disc) that has healed, gone, healed, gone etc, and looks like I have got inverted spinal cord. MRI will help diagnose. Missed this months wagon, will have to wait until first week of October at least. But hes not happy with it at all.


Well today, got a copy of the letter sent to my GP, it say's this:-

"Protruded neck due to the pain, loss of rotation in the cervical spine right and left. Only has 1/4 range of motion into extension. Side flexion right and left is 1/2 range of motion bilaterally. Normal neurology in upper limbs and above normal in the lower limbs. Reviewing an x-ray of his cervical spine from September 2010 shows that he has a loss of normal lordosis even reverse lordosis centered around C5. The disc spaces are however preserved and no degenerative changes are seen.

The gentleman is quite functionally disabled by his symptoms; conservative care is not improving his situation. I shall request an MRI of his cervical spine to aid the diagnosis. He will be seen back in the clinic with the results."


I suppose the good news is that the disc spaces are all good and no degenerative changes.. My dad has artificial C3-6 due to arthritis.

But my pain is not relieved by anything, not even morphine.. But it took just over 11yrs to get reffered to a specialist, then 6month wait for my appointment. Now, I have to wait for an MRI, something I have been asking for (as well as reffered to a specialist) for years now.

Any ideas for relief of symptoms or sleeping or release of the headaches that I get regularly?

 
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Old 09-12-2011, 05:56 PM   #2
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Having been there, I suspect your pain is primarily from the loss of and reversal of lordosis in your neck.

If you look at your spine form the side, your lower back goes in toward the stomach and then curves out over the back of the chest and then it curves in again at the neck...this is the normal lordosis curve in your neck. When you fell and hit your neck, you caused the vertebrae to go out of alignment and it is now pretty straight and even slightly curving backward at the C5 level. This brings your head downward and makes holding your head up, painful. If you totally lose that lordosis curve, you develop kyphosis and then you can't raise your head(what I had).

Your MRI will tell you a lot of what is wrong and how badly it's gone wrong. Could mean surgery in the future if you are having that much numbness.

Please post your MRI results when you get them as many of us here can explain it in plain English and give you an idea of what lies ahead.

What to do until then.....don't raise up your head if you can avoid it. I'd get one of the soft collars and wear it to give the muscles a break and I'd try wearing it backwards...works better with loss of lordosis. Don't try to look up at the sky...that may cause really bad pain and headaches. Let your head curl down when you sleep. Minimize movement for now. I know the muscles get tired and you want to stretch your neck but the bones are saying NO....they are somewhat dislocated and if you try to move them in a way they don't want to go, you could end up with a totally reversed neck and not be able to even look straight ahead like I did. All I could do was look at the floor. Your neck will be the most relaxed and least painful if you just let your head hang somewhat forward and keep it that way. That is why I used the soft collar turned around backward....held my head up a couple of inches and that was as high as I could get it and not have bad pain. If you can take the front side with not too much pain and better ability to see, then use it that way. Up to you and your pain. And nights can be tough as we don't know what we are doing during sleep. I used a side sleeping pillow to keep my neck as straight or curved down as I could. I still use it even after getting my whole neck fused.

hugs..........Jenny(fused C3 to T1)

 
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:37 PM   #3
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Chris.... Holy cow, it sounds like you've got everything short of a broken neck. My sincere condolences. The good news is that the docs should be able to help you, once they quit wasting your time with stuff like traction, acupuncture, and injections.

It's a good thing that you've found a specialist who is, as you say, NOT happy with your previous treatment. Perhaps, after many wasted years, you've found the right guy.

I do hope you will post the results of your MRI. I don't know how it works in the UK, but I guess you probably get a printed radiologist's report, plus the digitized images. GCWEBBYUK has figured out how to post the images, if you want to try, but it's the report that will tell us the most.

I don't want to get your hopes up as to what I, personally, can do for you, as I don't think I've ever encountered a situation like yours. JENNYBYC seems to have a much better handle on it, due to her remarkable level of personal experience.

Hang in there, and stay off the trampolines, OK?

Last edited by WebDozer; 09-12-2011 at 08:04 PM.

 
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:53 AM   #4
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Hiya there Jenny.

Thank you for the quick reply there. I think it probably is as my muscles have tried to over compenstate for lordosis problem.

Yes. when I used to look in the mirror at my spine from the side, my lower back goes in toward the stomach and then curves out over the back of the chest (and still does) but mine is slightly curving backward at the C5 level. Yes, my head is downward and it does make holding myr head up very painful. I do not like the sound of losing the lordosis curve totally or developing kyphosis (sorry to hear you had total, that is not good at all).

Yeah, that is what I am waiting for. HOPEFULLY I will have my MRI in the first week of October... Surgery in the future due to the level of numbness is not good thought really.

I will try to post my MRI results when I get them for someone to help explain it in plain English for me and give me an idea of what lies ahead.

I have asked for a soft collar on many occasions and been told no. So will have to buy my own then. My muscles need a break that is for sure! Wearing it backwards works better with loss of lordosis? Sweet. I do not try to look up at the sky due to that it does cause my pain to get even worse and headaches that go up the back of my head, over the top to the front. When you say </QUOTE>Let your head curl down when you sleep.<QUOTE> What do you mean (tired brain not working fully). I always try to minimize movement as it hurts like hell. The muscles do get extremely tired and I want to stretch my neck but everything say's NO! It just crack's every loudly. I know that, I try not to move them in a way they don't want to go as I do not want up and not be able to even look straight ahead or look at the floor only. I try to let my head hang somewhat forward and I try keep it that way. If I can get a soft collar, I will try it turned around backward. I will try to get a side sleeping pillow to keep my neck as straight or curved down as I could.


Thank you Jenny for your advice,
Hugs
Chris

 
Old 09-14-2011, 11:08 AM   #5
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Hi WebDozer.

There are on many occasions where I wished I had broken neck as at least they would of been able to see it properly. Thank you there. I know, that is now the good news after wasting my time with stuff like traction (which has probably done more harm than good) etc etc.

I hope that I have finally found the right person now after all of these years of "treatment" (I use that term loosely there).

I hope I will be able to post the results of my MRI. I am not sure how it works in the UK either. Normally you do not get a copy of the letter your specialist has sent to your GP, but I have. HOPEFULLY I will get a copy of scan & report.

Thank you, at the moment I think it is best not to get my hopes up for to much of anything at the moment. Yes JENNYBYC does seem to have a much better handle on it, due to her remarkable level of personal experience. I have no idea why I did not think of joining a board like this sooner really.

I will try to hang in there, and stay off the trampolines and amusement park rides (specialist ordered the last bit - bit late really after going on about a hundred of multipleG force rides).

 
Old 09-14-2011, 04:12 PM   #6
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

No, you don't want to break your neck either...that is how I ended up with cervical kyphosis(reversed curve in neck).

What I meant by curling your head in at bedtime, is that I sleep on my side and let my chin try to rest on my chest. My neck muscles are stiff and want me to stretch them out by putting the head back but I was very careful to to keep my neck curled in with chin down. Kept me from cutting into my cord and ending up with paralysis until it was fixed. And they can't necessarily see fractures in the neck that easily...they missed mine. Showed up in a CT only. I walked around for 27 days with a broken neck.

So the problem with you is that the vertebrae have shifted and you now have a neck that holds your head forward and downward and you can't change that without damage for now. Dislocated but not broken.

I won't go into how mine was fixed as I had fractures to deal with as well but it can be fixed. We have someone else here who had her's fixed, too.

Hang in there................Jenny

 
Old 09-16-2011, 10:45 AM   #7
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

It was a theoretical summary. Ouch... That is not good at all.

Ahhh, I get you know. I try to put my head on my chin, but I never wake up like that Though I rarely sleep for more than 3-4hrs per 9hrs I am in bed. My neck muscles are stiff as well and want me to stretch them out to, but it hurts like hell when I do that. I just want it sorted. It is doing my head in. That is true, I know someone whose father was walking around for 20yrs with a broken neck. His was caught on an MRI. He was an airline pilot.

I do indeed hold my head forward and downward and when I do try to straighten up it cracks extremely loudly and hurts even more!

My dad had arthritis at the top and base of his spine. Back in 94 his specialist went through the front of his body, moved his voice box over and replaced his C3, C4, C5, C6 with artificial disc's. IF it was not for his 6in scar by the bottom of the front of his neck, you would never of known. Then in 96 he had to see a different specialist (his original specialist had gone private so his number 2 took over his clinic etc) as an urgent case. He ended up being flow 35miles away strapped to a bed and went under the knife the next day. They went through the back and fused him. His L4 & L5 had completely gone, his L3 & L6 (yes, he is one of those rare one's that has an L6) were tided up, the muscles and nerves had to have hours of micro-surgery on them (he was in theatre for over 9hours) to repair them. When he came round, he was told by the specialist he was within a day of being paralysed from the waist down for life.

I will try to hang on in there Jenny. I really will. I have to for my kids sakes (my son is 8 and my daughter is 6, nearly 7 - they both live with the ex).


Take care.
Chris

 
Old 11-11-2011, 08:37 AM   #8
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Well, I FINALLY had my MRI on 21st October, and FINALLY had the results. Well a letter basically saying there is bugger all wrong and that I am going to be referred to the pain clinic.


The letter says:-

We now have the results of MRI scan cervical spine. Imaging of your neck shows essentially a normal presentation. There is some mild lower cervical facet joint degeneration and no serious feature is seen. Given that you have had a lot of conservative care in the past and there does not seem to be any idication for a Consultant Surgeon's final opinion I will write and ask colleagues in the Pain Clinic if they will very kindly continue the management of your care.



They WILL NOT send or give me a copy of my MRI's.


I am now peeved and I have no idea what the hell to do!

 
Old 11-11-2011, 12:03 PM   #9
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Well, finally got off the phone with the specialist. Got an appointment right at the end of Tuesday's clinic to explain my MRI properly. BUT he did say that, surgery would not be to my advantage due to the nature of my problems, in fact surgery could cause more harm than good and that is why he is referring me to the pain clinic.


It is more like we are not even a number but more like a big massive hinderance and a pain in the ***! A complaint is not even remotely close to what I want to do, let alone a second opinion! The stress and anxiety to me and my kids, & then because my kids are stressed and play up and that affects their mom to, making her stressed.

 
Old 11-11-2011, 06:51 PM   #10
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Chris... I am sorry to read that you are not (yet) getting the help you need. I'm a bit surprised that one image would show reversed lordosis, and this most recent one would show "essentially normal presentation".

I'm not clear of the meaning of "any indication for a Consultant Surgeon's opinion". Does that mean this "specialist" (what speciality is that, BTW?) sees no need to kick your case up to a surgeon for his opinion?

I guess I haven't much more worth saying. I have had myriad cervical spinal issues and three surgeries (with more to come, no doubt), but, thankfully, PAIN has never been much of a problem. Go figure....

Last edited by WebDozer; 11-11-2011 at 06:55 PM.

 
Old 11-13-2011, 03:18 AM   #11
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Web... Thank you for that. Exactly, that was my point when he rang me back. Also, I asked about my collapsed C5. Considering it is not normal.. But hay ho there.

Well, he is a nerval/spinal specialist but not a surgeon due to personal reasons.. So, basically he see's no need to pass it on to an orthapedic surgeon for them to look at and to operate on.

It is ok. Everything helps one way or another. 3 surgeries is not good at all. My dad has had 2, and has started to go back to what he was like between the ops and now thinks his arthritis is back. He had pain to, but mid level pain. With mine, I have had about 10hrs sleep in the last week due to the pain.

 
Old 11-13-2011, 03:19 AM   #12
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Re: Lordosis, C5...

Web... Thank you for that. Exactly, that was my point when he rang me back. Also, I asked about my collapsed C5. Considering it is not normal.. But hay ho there.

Well, he is a nerval/spinal specialist but not a surgeon due to personal reasons.. So, basically he see's no need to pass it on to an orthapedic surgeon for them to look at and to operate on.

It is ok. Everything helps one way or another. 3 surgeries is not good at all. My dad has had 2, and has started to go back to what he was like between the ops and now thinks his arthritis is back. He had pain to, but mid level pain. With mine, I have had about 10hrs sleep in the last week due to the pain.

 
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