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Old 05-11-2012, 10:11 PM   #1
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complex and confusing



hi everyone.
dont really no where to start, its all a bit involved........ ok firstly i need 2 fusions plus other work at fusion sites

cervical compression mod to severe due to osteophytes, posterior and anterior, due to advanced degeneration early aquried, im not old enough for such deg...,,eneration...............levels of compression c4-c6.....both levels seem about the same amount of compression......loss of disc space all cervical levels and bone on bone all
facets, even degeneration at c2-3

trace of csf posterior and anterior at c4-c6
also small bulge c3 disc mri one year old

this is from a year old mri

symptoms obviously loss of up/down/side to side mobility years ago.......dropping things from hands for several years.....difficulty holding arms up to wash hair etc....fine moter not good in hands , doin up buttons etc for a few years.......3 years ago started with bowel incontinance........around that time started with staggering /falling sideways and backways, getting worse, several times a day......some numbness in hands and feet intermittant.......and now about 3 months approx ago started with the spasticity in hands and feet , then had a couple of full body, my walking is not normal or my hand swinging

must say i was normal in all my body movements before this and had a beautifull walk , now im very embarressed and worried and feeling the disabled stigma.......


now to complicate things , i have got PMR and on high dose steroids which only controll symptoms , there is no cure , if you do google it .....it does not cover what its really like to have PMR it is far more than aches n pains it involves your muscles n joints n makes movement near impossible if you get it severe which i did , the steroids greatly reduce symptoms

i also have COPD and hiatus hernia with severe GERD and hypertension, ........an also being investigated for bone cancer as i have several markers pointing towards this.....also severe major clinical depressiom and PTSD and anxiety

so not an ideal patient for surgery ... am high risk ,,,n my gp said i would need to get my medical issues under control before any surgery

thoughts please .... jenny if your reading i read with interest about your aneastheasa last op in a post to ving , can you expand on that for me and explain itplease

im a bit all over the place here as i said its complex

now another thing i dont get is why my surgeon would recommend a one level fusion at c4-5.... when c4-c6 are both being compressed /flattened mod to severe with symptoms
how would you no which level was causing which of the symptoms im having ,,,you wouldn t would you???????

now lumbar has needed a fusion for manty many years and since this massaure manipulated me, a little while ago , i noticed a couple hrs later i had pins n needles in all 4 limbs and burning i ann four limbs , also i couldnt stand for very long without severe pin n had to bend foreward , didnt releive it fully ,.....had to lay down ....only releif....and also could not climb little small rise /slope or get up the kerb.........

.i have been unable to walk more than a few hundred metres and very slowly till i physically cant stride anymore , and i cant squat down and get up ......which i had no trouble doing before she manipulated me

.......she worked on my hips and pelvis , thoracic and said my hips where out of alignment (they wernt) and would put it back .i NEVER had any probs with my hips, when i clearly told her i wasnt allowed to be coz i could become paralyzed.i

(but before i knew it she had me on th table ) which i was 22 years ago coz of a massive disc shattering into pieces and pressing into my caudia equinq and spinal nerves...... and took 2-3 years to get to walk drive get about again ..........silly me refused surgery as i was too scared
question can someone please jenny web others explore what could be causing my inability to walk n squat since she manipulated me ...... coz it has canged my life dramatically and i have been bed ridden since

i would like to get it fixed

now the lumbar fusion also needs doing as its been bone on bone for 22 years but i managed but now with this woman that manipulated me im bed ridden and in a lot of pain all lower back n spasms ..........thoughts n advice or more questions for me please

i really need your help trying to work all this out

also have moderate degeneration in all sacrum and some levels at thoracic but they old scans too ......... trying to get updated scan

had a trapped c2 i think nerve root....was in excruciating 24/7 nerve pain for 9 weeks (at the time i thought i was going to be like that forever from what i read) cud only get up for toilet and food........
had steroid shot in head , didnt do anything cept the local numbed lower head for a few hrs...... but my pain went from base of head uo to over top of head then down to eyes in behind them and temple...... was like worst migraine for 8 weeks continuance plus being hit by a taser repeatedly and hit on back of head with baseball bat all at the same time......

im so scared it might come back ........that was around mid 2011....the surgery for tht is really not done as is pretty major im told and involves cutting into the dura and severing the nerve off the cord......

anyway i digress

my neurosurgeon is talking doing a acdf.... which really surprised me as i thought it would be a posterior entry.......thoughts please

would love some input to all thses issues please really would help me , anything , oh and i have my surgeon app in 2 days and i have a 2nd opinion lined up
verity

Last edited by verity; 05-12-2012 at 12:11 AM.

 
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #2
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Re: complex and confusing

forgot to say , i do have cervical spondylotic myelopathy and another sign i have is hyperreflexia in right leg reflexes

he didnt tell me if my arms were abnormal or not

verity

Last edited by verity; 05-11-2012 at 11:56 PM.

 
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #3
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Re: complex and confusing

Do you only have a year-old MRI? I would think that with a surgeon planning to do an ACDF he must have something more recent, or at least ordered something.

 
Old 05-12-2012, 12:59 PM   #4
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Re: complex and confusing

Verity, i just sent you a long message. I hope you received it!!!

Last edited by crapisi; 05-12-2012 at 01:02 PM.

 
Old 05-12-2012, 01:10 PM   #5
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Re: complex and confusing

I have spasticity in my left leg also. Every time i lift it up, it wants to shake really fast. My neurontin helps a little bit, but not much.

 
Old 05-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #6
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Re: complex and confusing

Verity...I'm here and I've read your post and will respond when I get a chance. I got new rescue cat this AM and it's been claws and hissing all day. Already have some good scratches. Once it settles down a little, I'll get back to you.

Didn't want you to think I wasn't around.

hugs..........Jenny

 
Old 05-12-2012, 01:32 PM   #7
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Re: complex and confusing

The hyperreflex in your leg could be a symptiom of Brown-Sequard (SP?) Syndrome. I had that before my ACDF many years ago. I think it alarmed the neurologist, as it's a sign of cord damage.

 
Old 05-12-2012, 01:37 PM   #8
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Re: complex and confusing

Anyway, Verity, if you have the radiologist's report from that year-old MRI, can you post it?

May help explain why your surgeon wants to do any ACDF. (of course, it's always possible that's all he KNOWS)

 
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:39 PM   #9
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Re: complex and confusing

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebDozer View Post
Do you only have a year-old MRI? I would think that with a surgeon planning to do an ACDF he must have something more recent, or at least ordered something.
hi web, yes correct 1 year old mri.......my last visit was 4 weeks ago and he didnt order new mri,,,,have spoken to my gp and hes been ringing him to ask to order new one

my ns is very busy , very hard if not impossible to get hold of, im sure he wouldnt go ahead n i wouldnt let him w/out a current mri

im certainly concerned and want a new mri , i see him again tommorrow,i dont no ....maybee he didnt realize how old they were and i wanted current scans for 2nd opinion too
verity
a lot can happen with growing osteophytes in 12 months, and my lumbar mri is 2 years old and he wants to do fusion there too , needs it ......

.i have scans going back 22 years showing the progressing deterioation of cervical......the lumbar stays the same, in so much as there is no disc therefrom the massive shattering 22 years ago at l4-l5, its a mess, surgeons words ...... but l5-s1 has probs now
verity

Last edited by verity; 05-12-2012 at 07:02 PM.

 
Old 05-12-2012, 06:52 PM   #10
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Re: complex and confusing

hi jenny, thanks will be greatfull for your input......hope your not getting tooo scratched up there, little monkey probably scared from being in the shelter or before the shelter.....

web, thanks so much for your input and hopefully more lol, i will get my old mri"s and CT scans and post results.......

crapisi, will read ur PM now, have you been diagnosed with spasticity? and what is causing it? mine doesnt shake.......thanks for support
verity

 
Old 05-15-2012, 08:05 AM   #11
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Re: complex and confusing

hi all

nearly got everything , so can post.......so busy with tests and drs, making appts, reading the stuff, ive still got to d/load several forms to print and fill out for another dr in 2 days

saw neurosurgeon yesterday , said he not doing updated mri till closer to surgery and he wants me see a neurologist to rule out neuro diseases due to my gait , as he said, after doing my neck , it may be the same ,,,,,,,so thats good to rule out possibilities

but

i think its either my cervical, sacrum or lumbar that that woman manipulated and further badly damaged, my allready damaged spine.......but after what she did thats when the inability to walk far started and the squatting inability........theres not a doubt in my mind , she did it ,,,,,,,few hrs later and i get tingling and burning in all four limbs and then i cant stand w/out excruciating pain , then i find i cant walk up a little slope or kerb, then that i cant walk far

having lung function tests in 1 day and chest x ray ,,,,,,,check out my state , as i have COPD......need to no if its got worse.....this isnt the pre op testing

also have to have bone marrow biopsey to see about MM,,,,,,, and of course im on the steroids long term .......

ns said its too dangerous to do lumbar first due to my cervical , cervical beats lumbar......as head positioning , hyperextending , to put tubes down for aneasthesia, the osteophytes would dig into cord ....... which is what i said to him on a previous visit........this is right ? isnt it?

so he said and i dont really understand , that i would be awake ,,,,,,,yeah rite

he would keep neck level , then put camera down????????? then i dont no wat???????? i said i would freak ........jenny , web

sedation please by the bucket load

i get so exhausted , never no when its gonna hit, but when it does its bad, its from the PMR

He still said acdf , ,,,,put graph in , remove disc,put in plate and screws, clean out foramina/widen

anyway ill post my mri and ct scans soon as i can
thankyou web and jenny
verity xx

jenny i hope your recovery is going as well as can be and you are taking it easy . let me no how you are, take care of yourself , i no i dont and have to make an effort to start putting myself first

crapisi , i didnt get a PM from you

 
Old 05-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #12
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Re: complex and confusing

Hi Verity...finally I have time and hands that work. New cat did a number on my arms on Saturday. Very aggressive 2 year old male that my son had but he was attacking the 4 year old and the 10 month old baby who just learned to crawl....so we had to get him out of there. They just never had the time to work with him so now I have to re-train a 2 year old to stop attacking.

Anyhow, back to your problems. I have a lot of the same medical problems that you have except the hiatal hernia. But I have chronically inflamed lungs with asthma, severe allergies, severe OA and RA, hypertension and type 2 diabetes. I also have severe PTSD due to near fatal child abuse. So when I went to the hospital for my pre-op with anesthesia, they decided that I shouldn't have any kind of gas anesthesia...but they still put the tube down for O2. All anesthesia was done through my IV...ask anesthesia about that...not the NS. They also put in an arterial BP monitor as my elbow joints were red with inflammation and it hurt so badly to take my BP. All I had done prior to surgery was an IV put in. A second IV was put in after they knocked me out(2 IV's needed for the vein anesthesia) and arterial monitor was also put in after I was out.

I don't quite understand about the "awake" part....was he saying you'd be awake for the introduction of the anesthesia...when they put the tube down into your throat? Talk to anesthesia about it. They shouldn't have to do it that way. But I don't think he was saying you'd be awake for the surgery.....never heard of anyone being awake for spine surgery.

Your NS is right that cervical trumps lumbar. Once they stabilize your neck, then it will be easier to address the lumbar problems. You won't know what is cervical and what is lumbar until they fix one of the 2 as the cervical can be the same as the lumbar. My NS, as good as he is, was positive my incontinence problems were either from my neck, or from small strokes or other problems....and then they all disappeared after my recent lumbar surgery. So they fix what needs to be done first and then you see what is left to fix.

On the PMR, the high dose steroids shouldn't be a problem. I had to be given high dose steroids during surgery to keep spine swelling down so it may be to your advantage. But it does slow down healing so you have to be VERY careful during the post-op period for infection. You may have to stop them for a week or 2 prior to surgery but it shouldn't worsen the PMR too fast. I had to stop my RA drugs for several months due to the possibility of infection and it was he!! on my joints and other areas(I have eye, brain and heart problems with my RA)but worth it to get through surgery and heal okay. I was able to re-start my Methotrexate as soon as the staples were out and my biologic med at 4 weeks post-op. Sometimes we have to go through a lot of pain in order to get rid of some pain. And since PMR won't kill you, they don't worry too much about stopping the meds. Not good for you....but good for them.

What ever this person did to your lumbar, you'll know once the neck is done and those symptoms are over and done with. And then you need the neurologist to figure out if any of your symptoms are form a neuromuscular disorder. Having a bad spine doesn't mean we can't get something like MS on top of it. The gait that tends to come with cord/nerve compression is a wide staggering gait as we start to lose balance due to damage to the nerves.

Have you had any nerve conduction studies done or an EMG? Or is that why you're seeing the neurologist too?

But your doc is right in that you need to be as healthy as you can be but they can deal with the health problems. If you showed up in the ER with a broken neck/back, they deal with you as you are...they do know how. They just want to make it easier on you as you recover by getting everything else under control. It took me 6 months to get my health problems under control for my bi-lateral knee replacements. Saw all sorts of specialists and had a ton of tests and went on all sorts of new meds to get everything as good as it could be. And even then, he made sure the specialists were on-call in the hospital the day of surgery. That alone took some doing and finding a date. It can be done.

But here is my warning that I give everyone. Do the least amount of surgery you can to fix a problem even if it means having more later. Remember that neurosurgeons don't really care about pain....a live nerve is a painful nerve...they care about signs that the nerves are in danger of dying. I didn't complain about my painful RA and having to stop my meds as I knew the NS didn't care. I'm not about to die of RA(although it can kill I don't have those problems yet) but he feared the meds could make me die if he operated.

You gain a lot of perspective when you have spine surgery. You realize that your entire body function relies on them fixing you and everything else is not important. When you ask yourself what is more important, full body paralysis or the other illnesses, all of a sudden, you see it their way. They've treated way too many people with paralysis.

I'm here(if the cat behaves) for questions or concerns and of course for support.

Gentle hugs..............Jenny

 
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:32 PM   #13
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Re: complex and confusing

Great post Jenny, I've learned so much more reading your posts. I'm pretty educated regarding my medical issues, but sometimes there's always the "Why?" is something happening......you've answered a lot.

Verity--My thoughts and prayers are with you. I've got some of the issues you and Jenny have and am also fused from C2-T1. Just had an MRI of lumbar and while I have 2 herniations and one completely obliterated disc, my NS does not want to touch my lumbar until and unless it becomes absolutely necessary. I'm on long term pain meds, RA meds, nerve pain meds, sleeping meds., etc. It just seems to never end. I was just talking to my ns about the heavy feeling in my legs, feels like I'm trudging through cement when I walk. I was told it's from the damage to my spinal cord and will probably never go away. That is totally annoying, I want to walk, but I just can't walk as fast as I would like to. I hope you get the relief you deserve. I look forward to reading about your journey. (((((HUGS))))))

 
Old 05-27-2012, 06:38 AM   #14
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Re: complex and confusing

Quote:
Originally Posted by jennybyc View Post
Hi Verity...finally I have time and hands that work. New cat did a number on my arms on Saturday. Very aggressive 2 year old male that my son had but he was attacking the 4 year old and the 10 month old baby who just learned to crawl....so we had to get him out of there. They just never had the time to work with him so now I have to re-train a 2 year old to stop attacking.

Anyhow, back to your problems. I have a lot of the same medical problems that you have except the hiatal hernia. But I have chronically inflamed lungs with asthma, severe allergies, severe OA and RA, hypertension and type 2 diabetes. I also have severe PTSD due to near fatal child abuse. So when I went to the hospital for my pre-op with anesthesia, they decided that I shouldn't have any kind of gas anesthesia...but they still put the tube down for O2. All anesthesia was done through my IV...ask anesthesia about that...not the NS. They also put in an arterial BP monitor as my elbow joints were red with inflammation and it hurt so badly to take my BP. All I had done prior to surgery was an IV put in. A second IV was put in after they knocked me out(2 IV's needed for the vein anesthesia) and arterial monitor was also put in after I was out.

I don't quite understand about the "awake" part....was he saying you'd be awake for the introduction of the anesthesia...when they put the tube down into your throat? Talk to anesthesia about it. They shouldn't have to do it that way. But I don't think he was saying you'd be awake for the surgery.....never heard of anyone being awake for spine surgery.

Your NS is right that cervical trumps lumbar. Once they stabilize your neck, then it will be easier to address the lumbar problems. You won't know what is cervical and what is lumbar until they fix one of the 2 as the cervical can be the same as the lumbar. My NS, as good as he is, was positive my incontinence problems were either from my neck, or from small strokes or other problems....and then they all disappeared after my recent lumbar surgery. So they fix what needs to be done first and then you see what is left to fix.

On the PMR, the high dose steroids shouldn't be a problem. I had to be given high dose steroids during surgery to keep spine swelling down so it may be to your advantage. But it does slow down healing so you have to be VERY careful during the post-op period for infection. You may have to stop them for a week or 2 prior to surgery but it shouldn't worsen the PMR too fast. I had to stop my RA drugs for several months due to the possibility of infection and it was he!! on my joints and other areas(I have eye, brain and heart problems with my RA)but worth it to get through surgery and heal okay. I was able to re-start my Methotrexate as soon as the staples were out and my biologic med at 4 weeks post-op. Sometimes we have to go through a lot of pain in order to get rid of some pain. And since PMR won't kill you, they don't worry too much about stopping the meds. Not good for you....but good for them.

What ever this person did to your lumbar, you'll know once the neck is done and those symptoms are over and done with. And then you need the neurologist to figure out if any of your symptoms are form a neuromuscular disorder. Having a bad spine doesn't mean we can't get something like MS on top of it. The gait that tends to come with cord/nerve compression is a wide staggering gait as we start to lose balance due to damage to the nerves.

Have you had any nerve conduction studies done or an EMG? Or is that why you're seeing the neurologist too?

But your doc is right in that you need to be as healthy as you can be but they can deal with the health problems. If you showed up in the ER with a broken neck/back, they deal with you as you are...they do know how. They just want to make it easier on you as you recover by getting everything else under control. It took me 6 months to get my health problems under control for my bi-lateral knee replacements. Saw all sorts of specialists and had a ton of tests and went on all sorts of new meds to get everything as good as it could be. And even then, he made sure the specialists were on-call in the hospital the day of surgery. That alone took some doing and finding a date. It can be done.

But here is my warning that I give everyone. Do the least amount of surgery you can to fix a problem even if it means having more later. Remember that neurosurgeons don't really care about pain....a live nerve is a painful nerve...they care about signs that the nerves are in danger of dying. I didn't complain about my painful RA and having to stop my meds as I knew the NS didn't care. I'm not about to die of RA(although it can kill I don't have those problems yet) but he feared the meds could make me die if he operated.

You gain a lot of perspective when you have spine surgery. You realize that your entire body function relies on them fixing you and everything else is not important. When you ask yourself what is more important, full body paralysis or the other illnesses, all of a sudden, you see it their way. They've treated way too many people with paralysis.

I'm here(if the cat behaves) for questions or concerns and of course for support.

Gentle hugs..............Jenny


web and jenny, thanks for your responses, its taken me awhile to respond as have had more drs visits , specialists and more tests and it gets hectic and theres so many things wrong , it brings me down and also if a drs manner is not nice..........

web, ive got the scans now to post and i sooooo agree with you how some do not write a proper report......either lazy......or , what they dont no how??

ive seen other reports posted where there is great detail and measurements,,,,,,,,,,,so yes , it certainly can be done, we no that .........so yes im sorry for me and you and others that have lousy limited reports

in fact next time i have a scan im going to ask that they measure and report these measurements.........

jenny, how you doing post op, are you progressing ???? have the RA meds started kicking in yet?

hope that cat not scrathchin you up too much.......i couldnt have that as the steroids have made my skin like paper all thin and it tears really easily and bleeds from just gentle bang or touching something, i dont even no , its when i see the blood that i find out.

the paralyzis is the main thing that im concerned about , ive allready gone through falling into the deep about it, ive told my drs i cant be like that......

yes my neurosurgeon sent me to neurologist a few weeks ago for NCS, apparently when i saw him the other day its fine ,,,,,,,,,cept for the dead nerve from 22 years ago........

going to next post

 
Old 05-27-2012, 08:01 AM   #15
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Re: complex and confusing



K back .....worried might lose the entire post.....lol

forgot what im up too.......so much........

so then back to neurosurgeon and he says acdf @ C4-5

my Query was , what about C5-6

but first he wants me to go back to neurologist to check out neuro stuff , as in neuro diseases to rule out

so ive done that and have appt with neurosurgeon very soon again......

also had the full lung function test at the hospital , not like the lesser one they can do.......My O2 sats are not very good

am seeing my GP for results in couple days


oh theres so much more......
but ill just post scans remarks

jan 2009
excert
cervical spine x-ray and ct

advanced degenerative changes are noted from C4-T1, with narrowing of disc spaces, sclerosis of articular margins and facet joints. most of the flexion/extension movements are occuring at the C3-C4.
the exit foraminal show osteophytic encroachment and narrowing in the C5-T1 region on both sides. precervicalsoft tissueshows noabnormalities and no cervical ribs were seen. C1-C2 shows early degenerativechanges.

there are osteophtyes bulging posteriorly between C5-T1 , which is impinging on the spinal cordand the lateral nerve roots between C5 and T1


sorry put 2009 first forgot 2007

heres 2007

x-ray and ct

on plain x-rays in the cervical spine, there is narrowing of the C4-C5, C5-C6, and C6-C7 disc spaces with anterior spondylytic lipping at thses levels.
neurocentral joint degeneration changes are noted narrowing the interveretbral foramina at C4-C5 bialtaerally and at C6- C7 on the right and C6-C7 on the left.
neurocentral joint degenerative change is noted narrowing the intervebral foramina on the right at C4-C5, C5-C6, and C6-C7 on the left.

in the thoracic spine there is a scoliosis convex to the right inferiorly, there are diffuse thoracic spine degenerative changes with anterior spondylotic lipping noted diffusely

on CT , at the C4-C5 level a discovertebral bar is noted paracentrally on the right causing prefforaminal narrowing indenting the thecal sac paracentrally on the right.
there is neural exit foraminal narrowing bilaterally at this level most severe on the right with likely compression of the exiting nerve roots and ganglia

at C5-C6 a broad based discovertebral bar is noted indenting the thecal sac most markedly on the right. neurocentral joint degenerative changeis noted narrowing narrowing the intervetebralforamina bilaterally

at C6-C7 neurocentral joint degenerationchange is noted narrowing the intervetebral foramina bilaterally

in the upper thoracic spine anterior spondylotiv lippingis noted. at T5- T 6 small right sided paracentral discvertebral bar indents the thecal sac

conclusion degenerative changes as described most severe in the cervical spine C4-C7



i also have some scoliosis in my lumbar and my sacrum, sacrum has moderate degeneration as per old scan(2009). i have scans going back many years , but for now will just keep to cervical, my lumbar needs a fusion



march 2011
MRI scan

cervical

minor straitening of lorsodis

bone marrow.....altered marrow changes asscoiated with disc degeneration most prominant at the C4-C5 level

Cord intact....no altered signal intensity

transverse images were performedfrom C3-T2 levels

C3-C4 disc osteophyte complex associated with moderate canal stenosis, minor right foraminal narrowing

C4-C5 disc osteophyte complexwith small focal disc herniation and osteophyte complex to the right of mid line involving the right foramin with right foraminal narrowing.
canel stenosis is moderate to severe in nature only a thin trace of csf fluid present anteriorly and posteriorly. anterior cord flattened sided

C5-C6 disc osteophyte complexassociated with moderate to severe canal stenosis with only a thin trace of csf fluid anterior and posterior to cord. right foraminal narrowing with disc osteophtye complex and unconvetebral degeneration associated with nerve root impingement

C6-C7 disc oteophyte complex asscociated with mild to moderate canal stenosis with right sided disc osteophyte complex encroaching ion the foramen, also on the left with bilateral foraminal narrowing.
canal stenosis moderate in nature

conclusion
multilevel disc osteophyte complexes and moderate to severe canal stenosis as described most marked at the C4-5 and C5-6 levels

whewwwww im wiped

verity xxx

 
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