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03-11-2006, 07:58 AM
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| A possible GOOD reason for widespread Statin use
All,
You are probably shocked by the title of this thread, especially coming from me. If you've been on this forum for a year or so, you know I have said over-and-over that I feel statins are the most over-prescribed drug in the world. I stand by that opinion - for cholesterol and CHD prevention, they are grossly overprescribed (IMHO).
However, I'm not an ideolog either, and when I see new information that seems credible, I try to be objective about it.
Well, here's the shocker.
I've been reading more and more about how statins may be of significant benefit in reducing mortality rates from BIRD FLU (H5N1) should that terrible virus eventually mutate into a form that is readily transmissible between humans. It seems the anti-inflammatory properties of statins have been linked to decreased death rates from influenza, pneumonia, and sepsis.
Statins seem to reduce the production of pro-inflammatory Cytokines. Ironically, it is the healthiest who die in greatest numbers from H5N1 (and this was also true in the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic). The immune systems of healthy individuals grossly overproduce these proteins in response to the virus, leading to extensive lung and kidney damage. Death rates are highest in those under 40...
Some quotes from an article:
1) The idea that statins might be helpful for sepsis or influenza is based on more than speculation about mechanism. In 2004 Almog et al. (Circulation, Aug 17 2004;110(7):880-885) reported that patients admitted to the hospital with acute bacterial infections and who were on statins for more than a month for other reasons had a dramatically reduced incidence of severe sepsis (19% versus 2.2%) and reduced admission to the Intensive Care Unit (12.2% vs. 3.7%). An interesting point is that patients on statins might be expected to be at greater risk because they are taking a medication for a pre-existing medical condition.
2) These studies suggest that statin therapy may ameliorate the course and/or prevent complications of influenza. In these studies, it appears that all of the people were already receiving statins when they got infected. Whether statins would be beneficial after the onset of symptoms is still unknown. However, further investigation is merited. This is particularly important given the likelihood that vaccines and antiviral agents will be in short supply during an influenza pandemic, and statins are widely available and may be produced relatively inexpensively.
The anti-inflammatory properties of statins can be gained by using them at a reduced dosage... reducing the risk of other side effects of these drugs. I may just be asking my doctor to refill my Lipitor prescription, and I may just stock-pile it in case H5N1 comes to our shores in a mutated, infectious form.
HubbleRules
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03-11-2006, 08:16 AM
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#2 | | Senior Veteran (female)
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My Mood: | Re: A possible GOOD reason for widespread Statin use Quote: |
Originally Posted by HubbleRules All,
You are probably shocked by the title of this thread, especially coming from me. If you've been on this forum for a year or so, you know I have said over-and-over that I feel statins are the most over-prescribed drug in the world. I stand by that opinion - for cholesterol and CHD prevention, they are grossly overprescribed (IMHO).
However, I'm not an ideolog either, and when I see new information that seems credible, I try to be objective about it.
Well, here's the shocker.
I've been reading more and more about how statins may be of significant benefit in reducing mortality rates from BIRD FLU (H5N1) should that terrible virus eventually mutate into a form that is readily transmissible between humans. It seems the anti-inflammatory properties of statins have been linked to decreased death rates from influenza, pneumonia, and sepsis.
Statins seem to reduce the production of pro-inflammatory Cytokines. Ironically, it is the healthiest who die in greatest numbers from H5N1 (and this was also true in the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic). The immune systems of healthy individuals grossly overproduce these proteins in response to the virus, leading to extensive lung and kidney damage. Death rates are highest in those under 40...
Some quotes from an article:
1) The idea that statins might be helpful for sepsis or influenza is based on more than speculation about mechanism. In 2004 Almog et al. (Circulation, Aug 17 2004;110(7):880-885) reported that patients admitted to the hospital with acute bacterial infections and who were on statins for more than a month for other reasons had a dramatically reduced incidence of severe sepsis (19% versus 2.2%) and reduced admission to the Intensive Care Unit (12.2% vs. 3.7%). An interesting point is that patients on statins might be expected to be at greater risk because they are taking a medication for a pre-existing medical condition.
2) These studies suggest that statin therapy may ameliorate the course and/or prevent complications of influenza. In these studies, it appears that all of the people were already receiving statins when they got infected. Whether statins would be beneficial after the onset of symptoms is still unknown. However, further investigation is merited. This is particularly important given the likelihood that vaccines and antiviral agents will be in short supply during an influenza pandemic, and statins are widely available and may be produced relatively inexpensively.
The anti-inflammatory properties of statins can be gained by using them at a reduced dosage... reducing the risk of other side effects of these drugs. I may just be asking my doctor to refill my Lipitor prescription, and I may just stock-pile it in case H5N1 comes to our shores in a mutated, infectious form.
HubbleRules  | Where did U read about this? I know, I'm the big skeptic here, but it seems they report statins as the cure all for everything and now Bird Flu??? Oh well, we will have to see what they say down the line, as I just don't trust these so called studies. I may be 100 % wrong, but I guess I am getting a lil more skeptical about the claims of statins being the "Wonder Drug", that cures just about everything. Hopefully this Bird Flu never reaches us, as I think we are in deep trouble, cause I don't think anyone is prepared to fight it. JMHO
Have a good one, and TTYL......
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03-11-2006, 08:22 AM
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| Re: A possible GOOD reason for widespread Statin use Quote: |
Originally Posted by JJ Where did U read about this? I know, I'm the big skeptic here, but it seems they report statins as the cure all for everything and now Bird Flu??? Oh well, we will have to see what they say down the line, as I just don't trust these so called studies. I may be 100 % wrong, but I guess I am getting a lil more skeptical about the claims of statins being the "Wonder Drug", that cures just about everything. Hopefully this Bird Flu never reaches us, as I think we are in deep trouble, cause I don't think anyone is prepared to fight it. JMHO
Have a good one, and TTYL......  |
JJ,
I'm waiting on permission from the moderator to post a link.
But just search on +cytokine +statin +h5n1 and you'll see a lot of information on the web (use the "+" sign to make sure it searches on all 3 words)...
I totally understand your skepticism. I'm a bit of a skeptic myself when it comes to some of the claimed benefits of statins - but this seems like it may be credible...
How is Hubby by the way? Is he doing better? Did he get out of the hospital yet? Are you getting enough rest???
HubbleRules
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03-11-2006, 08:54 AM
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| Re: A possible GOOD reason for widespread Statin use
JJ,
Here' some more info about statins and bird flu - looks like your Green Tea is also something of a defense against it...
Unlike certain other viruses, avian influenza is characterized by a hyper-response of the immune system. People afflicted with avian flu die from pulmonary edema and multi-organ system failure in response to acute inflammation caused by what some doctors describe as a pro-inflammatory “cytokine storm.”
As a result of this data, if one were to contract the avian flu, cimetidine, DHEA and melatonin might not be advisable, due to their potent immune enhancing effects. On the flip side, there are nutrients and drugs that might suppress the most dangerous pro-inflammatory cytokines associated with the avian flu. Some of the cytokine-suppressing agents include fish oil,63-79 green tea80-97, borage oil8-101, curcumin102-114 and flavonoids115-124 (such as nobiletin).
A novel cytokine-suppressing strategy might be to take a statin drug (such as 40 mg of Zocor®) as soon as flu symptoms manifest. A very limited amount of data indicates that statin drugs can block excess production of influenza-induced pro-inflammatory cytokines. Please note that no one yet knows whether nutritional or drug anti-cytokine therapy is beneficial in treating avian flu.
HubbleRules
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03-11-2006, 08:59 AM
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| Re: A possible GOOD reason for widespread Statin use
Hubble,
I know you mentioned the anti-inflammatory aspects of statins many times. I see less emphasis in the literature on it than you do. Do you have any quantifiable estimate of its anti-inflammatory properties...not IF but HOW MUCH.
For example, do statins tend to be comparable to aspirin, the almost standard in fighting inflammation for over a century? Better, worse?
I noticed in your original post that there was no mention that "anti-inflammation" was really mentioned as the route by which statin patients did better. Could it be that different lipid handling might have accounted for the improvement in some little understood way?
I have always thought of the anti-inflammatory effects of statins as small although I'm not on any solid ground there...just more of a feeling from having taken them for 8 years.
A personal note: Both of us are/were sick with INFLUENZA, presumably H3N2...since we haven't sprouted any feathers...or DIED!
Having had both the 1957 Asian (H2N2) and the 1968 Hong King (H3N2) this round, though furious (to 103 fever, horrible aches and pains, scortched lungs with a hammer blow to the head with every cough) the duration was shorter than the earlier two bouts...fevers broke in 5 days though we are both coughing furiously. We are both on statins for years and, of course, about 10 aspirin a day during the fever. Who knows?
My bet though would still be that IF there was a therapeutic effect of statins on febrile diseases, that the effect likely lies elsewhere than the anti-inflammmatory effect...but I wouldn't be giving long odds.
I guess an easy way to determine the effect is to take two groups of people, half statin and half not and administer some bug that is relatively harmless but that causes fever readily (there are a couple that escape me.) Measuring temperatures, white cells, and sed rates in both groups should tell the tale as to the degree of inflammation.
Last edited by Lenin; 03-11-2006 at 09:07 AM.
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