I've had Hashi since I was a teenager when I had a partial thyroidectomy (there was a HUGE benign tumor). I'm now 31 years old. I was on Synthroid/Levoxyl for years with an evil doc keeping my TSH around 4 and saying the fatigue and weight gain were all my fault (yeah, uh-huh). Finally about 3 years ago I got someone to prescribe me Armour and my whole world turned around. We stablized the dose around 3 grains (TSH of 1) and I felt like a totally new person and was able to finally lose 80 pounds (yes! 80!) by super strict dieting and exercise all in 1 year.
Unfortunately right after that in the spring of 2002 I developed Type 1 autoimmune diabetes and am now on insulin forever (or until there's a decent cure).
As of last June my TSH was 0.3. Well, in late summer I began to feel very tired but attributed it to the diabetes. Weight loss also stopped cold. Even eating 1100 calories a day (I keep a food diary & can't even cheat or my blood sugar will kill me ;-) and working out 6 days a week like I had done before was ineffective. That's when I got my thyroid test back (autumn) showing a TSH of 9.7!!!! What???! What happened???? I went from 0.3 to 9.7 on the same dose in 6 months???! My doc was puzzled and basically accused me of not taking my pills (uh, no, I take them religiously, guaranteed!) and we upped my dose to 3 1/2 grains.
That brings us to today... over 6 months later. My hair has been falling out for months. I'm so tired I can barely stay away. If I eat more than 1200 calories a day I gain weight. I can make no progress on my workouts, no muscle gain, no cardio improvements. I saw my doc last week and got my lab results back yesterday. (But of course my doc is on vacation until next week so I can't even talk to anyone about this! Ugh!)
The thing is... I've been taking 3 1/2 grains of Armour every single day! I weigh 190 pounds. This dose nearly made me hyper when I weighed 270! I suspect my pharmacy has been giving me old/expired pills. It's the only explanation I can come up with. But when I called them they swore it can't be them. (But then... who knows what pills I got all winter, right? Not the same bottle they have open NOW! And if they HAD been giving me bad pills, to admit it would open them up to a lawsuit, so of course they would tell me I'm just crazy.)
Does anyone have any other ideas? Diabetes can't do this. I've even had stress hormones checked recently. They were all normal. Do you also think it's an inactive pill issue? Does anyone know of any other medical reason why thyroid hormones would simply cease to work? Arrggh! I wish my doc was in town! I'm just so frustrated! I'm getting married early next year and don't even fit into my dress yet. And I have baldish spots on my head. I just want my thyroid dose correct! I want to feel good and LIVE! I feel like I can't wait any longer to fiddle with these doses. I've never heard of Armour just stopping working for someone. Has anyone else?
Thanks for reading all this :-)
Debbie in Seattle
[This message has been edited by fromos5 (edited 06-11-2003).]
__________________
Debbie
Hashi 16+ years / Partial Thyroidectomy 1989
Type 1 Diabetes (autoimmune, insulin-dep.)
Find another doctor! Preferably one who is willing to work with you.
Change pharmacy! Do you ever check the med bottle number for mfg recalls?
I have read where some on amour will lose weigth while others will gain, feel good while others feel bad. The same goes for any of the other meds. For some its a constant experimenting from meds to meds and mfg to mfg trying to find a med that will work for them.
Family member's who were diabetic either on meds or insulin lost weight and kept it off with proper diet and exercise. One family member was real heavy starting out.
Hope others will have more help for you.
Hang in there and don't give up for there is an answer out there some place, you just have to find it.
I agree find another doc, and if your doc isn't an endo, get one fast. I have no idea why your TSH would be going up on Armour, perhaps the previous poster is right, you may need to try a different med, or different dosage, but most importantly get a good endo.
Keep us updated and good luck!
I agree. Get another opinion. No doctor in this day and age should be offended by your desire to do that. If they do take offense, you shouldn't be going to them. That's my feeling, anyway.
The Armour issue is that - an issue. I've been on 4 grains, or 240mg, for the past 30 years. My TSH has been at .01 for the past 10 years, at least 10 years, but nobody ever did anything about it. I didn't know. Now I'm going to pay for it. I have heart problems and osteoporosis. That's what happens when you take too much thyroid hormone for too long. A new endocrinologist switched me to a synthetic (Levoxyl) 2 weeks ago and I'm noticing a difference. The biggest difference so far is that I don't have as many spells of horrible heart pounding.
I believe my new endocrinologist when he tells me that Armour is just not reliable enough. There is no good reason now for using Armour over a synthetic. It is not the fault of the pharmacy. It's more likely the fault of the pig from whom it was taken at the Armour meat packing plant.
Get a second opinion!!
[This message has been edited by Mollymalone (edited 06-11-2003).]
Sometimes our metabolic needs change, adn this may be why you need more, now. Also, have you changed any habits lately before you started going down hill (within a few months of your decline) like when you take your meds, what you eat, etc?
Make sure you are taking your meds at least 4 hours and preferably more from these foods/meds/supplements:
Iron and iron rich foods (ibuprofen has iron in it usually, too)
Calcium (this includes milk and milk product and anything that claims to have calcium added)
Aluminum (in many antacids)
Estrogen
does any of this hit home? I say stick with your current doctor, but ask lots of questions here and lets get to the bottom of this change.
__________________
Danny
I am not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mollymalone:
I believe my new endocrinologist when he tells me that Armour is just not reliable enough. There is no good reason now for using Armour over a synthetic. It is not the fault of the pharmacy. It's more likely the fault of the pig from whom it was taken at the Armour meat packing plant.
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Thanks for this info...I've been around the block with my thyroid meds in the past year. I was taking .075 Synthroid for over 12 years...my DO informed me that all my levels were in the normal range. When I inquired as to why my hair was falling out, I was constantly constipated, gaining weight, brain fogged etc, he suggested that perhaps I needed to try some T3.
He started me on Cytomel in June last year, titrating from 5mcg X2/day up to 100mcg/day. I was feeling wonderful on the Cytomel, but my inability to manage stress caused my bp to jump from it's norm of 120/68 up to 198/118. He presumed it was the Cytomel and cut me down to 25mcg/day. End result: return of all the symptoms.
After my bloodwork in February, he informed me that my T4 was quite low (everything else was "normal") and that he wanted to try me on Armour. I had to quit all Cytomel and start at 5mg Armour. After 48 hours I was a zombie.
With his knowledge, I added back 50mcg Cytomel while titrating up to 2 grains of Armour (120mg.) At that level I felt about like I had on the Synthroid. To add insult to the injury, my pharmacist (a terrific and knowledgeable woman) informed me about another patient who'd dropped 30 pounds without even trying after starting on Armour.
Imagine my dismay when I realized that I had *GAINED* 14 pounds since starting the Armour. I really had no idea that the Armour could be less beneficial than the synthetics...after all isn't "natural better than synthetic?" :-P
Suffice it to say, I'm currently on 100mcg Cytomel and 1/2 grain (30mg) of Armour. Hoping that the next bloodwork will look good, and that I'll start feeling human again.
Thanks for the info and the encouragement! I appreciate all the knowledgeable people here on the healthboards!
Wow.. snooze that sounds like me... almost.. actually delete all of the synthroid info!! I am on 125mcg of cytomel and 2 grains of armour. I tried cytomel alone but my body obviously needed the t4 in the armour so we added it back a week ago and I feel so much better already. Sometimes, as in this case here and mine I believe.. the t4 is normal.. and adding anymore will make you hyper.. but what you may need is the additional t3 like I did. I have to say my brain is functioning normal again. My body seems to have a definite need for both the armour and the cytomel. There is a definite max of t4 that my body can handle though. I would try adding cytomel to the armour in this case.. just me.. I am a rebel!
Just a couple thoughts to confuse an already murky and frustrating subject…
First, I’ve never heard it discussed that thyroid replacement hormones need to be kept at a certain temperature. Extremes can render it ineffective. Could the place where you store your meds be too hot or cold? I’m not sure how much of a difference this makes, but it is written on the literature I receive with my meds.
Second is about the Cytomel. I have heard a few cases where people were only taking this and no T4. That is probably fine for people with a functioning thyroid. I did read recently that T3 does not cross the blood-brain barrier, so T4 is necessary. Kind of obvious, but it did remind me that both components are important, maybe more so with people suffering from brain fog or mood issues.
psychiatrists are now using cytomel, with good effects, along with other antiD's -- these people have normal thyroids, but they're depressed and it seems to work ...
MS,
you say: after all isn't "natural better than synthetic?" ... bee stings and mosquito bites are natural, so it ain't necessarily so!!!!!!
Thanks so much for all the input...I'm fortunate that I have a physician who gives me the leeway to play around with my meds.
It never occurred to me to keep the Armour at 2 grains and add back the Cytomel. I was actually worried wbout it being too much. I've been at 100mcg Cytomel + 30mg (1/2 grain) Armour for the past 3 days and haven't noticed much difference. Maybe I DO need the extra T4 along with the T3.
Snooze..it never occurred to me either until 3 wks into being on cytomel "only" I felt half dead..my whole body blew up from edema, my hair and nails stopped growing, I started to become alittle depressed... but I must say, I was alert..no more brain fog, no more pain from the fibromyalgia. I didn't feel my best that's for sure... so the light bulb went on..hmmm, I thought, I was on armour and all these stupid symptoms were gone.. maybe I really need this stuff. I thought that because I was skipping the conversion process of t4 to t3 and just taking the active form that .. that would be all I would need. Hey it made sense to me...for the moment. Obviously there is more to this. I guess the t4 needs to be built up to your normal level or something and then we deal with the cellular resistance of the t3 separately... that's what I'm thinking. As in this case above..again this could very well be a situation where adding t3 would do the trick.... I would be really nervous about switching from armour to a t4 only drug like synthroid... my mother did it because someone gave her a bag of bull regarding the inconsistency of armour.... she nearly ended up in the hospital... it was like death overcame her. Regarding synthroid.. I would really do a good research on that.. All thyroid meds have a certain amt of inconsistencies whether natural or synthetic. I think I would probably do just as well on something like thyrolar.. which is synthetic t4/t3.. I don't really have a preference.. It's the t4 and t3 combo that is the key for me.
[This message has been edited by daldre1269 (edited 06-21-2003).]
[This message has been edited by daldre1269 (edited 06-21-2003).]
Another thing snooze.. the 1/2 grain is so small that it could actually suppress the glands normal function and cause even more hypo symptoms... increasing it would be a good idea because 1/2 gr is pretty much equal to placebo ya poor thing!!!
New to board, pls help! (Re: Armour, TSH) 
