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Old 08-20-2003, 06:52 AM   #1
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 17
Sonyary HB User
Wink Armour or Cytomel,or both?

Hey all have helped me sooo much,have always answered my questions with out me having to ask.My thyroid was removed 12 yrs ago(Hashis).I have been on synthroid...and just accepted the problems.Thats where you all have I want a Dr. to listen,I have a new Dr. and a appt w/him this Friday.I want completely off synthroid,and on question is should I (can I) take just armour or armour and cytomel together.

Old 08-20-2003, 06:57 AM   #2
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Location: Euless, TX
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Meep HB UserMeep HB UserMeep HB User

Armour has more T3 in it than what many people need, so adding Cytome to it is usually not a good thing.

See if you can try the Armour for a while and see if that helps you

I am not a doctor, nor have I ever played one on TV...

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Old 08-20-2003, 08:28 AM   #3
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My thyroid does not function at all and I have been on Armour for years. Synthroid just never worked for me. My Dr once insisted I try it, and I didnot like it at all. I recently ran into problems, and became quite hypothyroid while talking the Armour, 3 grns daily. My Dr added cytomel and I started feeling better right away. This was just my experience. I really prefer Armour, but every Dr I have had (2)has preferred synthroid. However, neither one took thyroid supplement. So I am taking 3 grns of Armour and 2 Cytomel 5MCG each AM.
Good luck with your appointment,

Old 08-21-2003, 03:25 AM   #4
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daldre1269 HB User

Hi... I started on armour all by itself and when I continued to feel symptomatic we added cytomel. So now I take both armour and cytomel together.

However, you probably will not know if you need cytomel until you've been on a therapeutic dose of armour for awhile....

So, you should probably start off with armour alone since cytomel is so potent for SOME people... your better off to see how you do on the armour first.

I've found this process to be very experimental....

Remember, you are unique in you body chemistry... what may work for one may not work for another. some people need to add t3 , some people add t4 to their armour. So to say adding cytomel to your armour is GENERALLY not a good thing is something I do not agree with at all.

You have to do what works for YOU... individually and that may mean taking many different routes to get well.

It's a trial and error process in which you need to be proactive in order to get well.

Please keep us posted, let us know how you do with the new doc.

[This message has been edited by daldre1269 (edited 08-21-2003).]

Old 08-22-2003, 10:26 PM   #5
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Miami, FL, USA
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Tammynoska HB User
Red face

Cytomel put me through living hell, even at a tiny fraction of one pill. I asked my endo to add it after reading so much good stuff about it on this healthboard and in a couple of thyroid books, one written by a thyroid patient who runs a web and newsletter.

Cytomel gave me the most horrific sensations, one of them a forced highly unpleasant rush feeling in my chest a bit after taking it. My endo told me some people like that feeling but to me it was terrible. I would also get other terrible side effects, such as audio and visual hypersensitivities, which made my quality of life at minus 200 from a scale of 1 to 10.

Any positive feelings I got from Cytomel were short-lived and unstable, from a few hours to a day or two at most, followed and interspersed with the most gawdawful sensations. Since Cytomel with T4 was touted as the ultimate thyroid treatment, I was in shock and felt hopeless. My endo told me to learn to live with the feelings.

I'm glad that I refused to live locked in a hell I wouldn't want my worst enemy to be in. I tried all doses of cytomel, even getting down to only a fraction of a pill, and still, it was so potent and unstable that I couldn't take it anymore.

One day on my own I simply quit taking it, and just went alone on synthroid. Of course I became very hypo over 3 months while my synthroid dose was increased. I was very miserable for a while though, because I believe, even though the cytomel was horrible, my body became accustomed to expecting the separate T3.

It took 2 years for my body to recover from the addiction and function on its own. I didn't end up feeling great on Synthroid either, and ended up switching to Levoxyl on the recommendation of my endo's nurse, who also didn't do well on Synthroid but ended up doing great on Levoxyl.

It's now over 2 years later and I finally have had, in the last few months, my feeling of 'normal' returned that I lost when I started with my thyroid problems. In short, I would strongly advice you to think twice about adding Cytomel to your regimen; you may just be setting yourself up for the side-effects hell I went through.

As daldre1269 writes, what works for one person, may not work for another. And Cytomel not only didn't work for me, but it put me through the most horrific side effects in my entire life, and none of my doctors helped me through them. I came several times close to suicide and just barely got through it.

Old 08-22-2003, 11:16 PM   #6
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Location: Missouri
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Sky_Eagle1 HB User

Of course, what works for one person will not necessarily work for another.

I agree with most of the posters, changes on these things take time. With the Armour and Cytomel both you want to halve your daily dosage and take it twice a day, because T3 is short acting (8 hours).

Also to the last poster, if you have those reactions it might also indicate that you have adrenal shortages (cortisol, DHEA?) that might need addressed.

Old 08-26-2003, 06:43 AM   #7
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Sonyary HB User

Thanks guys....I will ask for armour first.My appt. for last Friday was cancelled,but I go this Friday.One more question...I have only just had my tsh I need more than that? I have good ins...I want the Dr. to run labs on everything that you guys think.....


Old 08-26-2003, 07:01 AM   #8
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Goshen, New York
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girlygirly HB User

Get a complete thyroid panel. Ask for a thyroid antibodies test as well. Good Luck.

Old 09-04-2003, 06:10 AM   #9
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Sonyary HB User

Well,I went to the Dr. and He was great.Listened to everything I said.He took me off synthroid and started me on low dose of armour(1) 15mg,I had my labs this past Tuesday and he called me Wed. and now has me taking (3) 15mg,so 45 mg of armour is equal to what doseage of synthroid? I was taking 150mg of synthroid.
My labs came back,and this was just on synthroid
TSH 14.5
FT4 .8 (.8-1.8)
FT3 200 (230-420)
I know that my tsh is high,and he has agreed to tsh of 1 or just below 1,(cool,I was so excited).
I don't know much about FT3 and 4,what in the perfect world should those be.My creatinine level was too low,but he will retest next visit in 3 weeks.Any connection with kidneys and thyroid?
Should anymore labs be done reguarding my thyroid(it has been removed) Thanks for listening


Old 09-04-2003, 10:28 AM   #10
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Old 09-04-2003, 06:43 PM   #11
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Sky_Eagle1 HB User

All of your tests say hypothyroidism. FT4 and FT3 you want as high to the top end of the range as you can get without getting hyperthyroid symptoms. Sounds like one of the better doctors you get...he still follows TSH, so that's not for the best, but it'll be interesting to see where this goes for you.

I'm not sure about creatine or a connection to kidneys and thyroid and no you got the right labs (and all of them).

However, he started you on only 45mg of Armour considering you were on 150mcg of Synthroid. I understand why the doctor is doing this, to work your tolerance up on the T3 in the Armour.

The doctor really shouldn't be going on this little formula, but people generally consider equivalencies using the formula that T3 should be 4X T4. I don't like this, because T3 is to T4 like apples are to oranges. Using this formula I'd expect you to end up on 2 grains of Armour or 120mg as an equivalent to what you were taking. 1 grain (60mg) has 38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3.

But I would go off the FT4 and FT3 tests if I were in a position to dose Armour (I'm not a doctor). Consider too that it might be good to go on some additional T4 to line out both your numbers, because the T3 will get to maximum long before the T4 with the ratio in Armour.

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