I got back my hypo test results last tues, and have been self medicating with Dessicated Bovine Thyroid Tissue 130mg, and Dessicated Bovine Adrenal Tissue 80mg, started to feel better by day 3, I then added Progest-E 10mg Does anyone out there have any experience with this kind of therapy? How would the dessicated thyroid tissue here compare with Armour? I felt crappy today, and started feeling bad last night, achey and tired..I wondered if/when I might try more of the supplement, and how much...If anyone can help me out here .....Thanks!-Pen
[This message has been edited by Pengi (edited 09-15-2003).]
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no one wants to reply to my post, I must be a freak of nature http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/alien.gif! I will just keep on waiting to find out if any one knows about or has tried this type of treatment...love!-Pen
It's not that we don't want to reply. It's just that the "regulars" here don't self-medicate.
Did you order the tests yourself online or something? If you're truly hypo, the health-food stuff probably won't work in the long run. You'll need consistently reliably potent T4 and/or T3, and most OTC supplements aren't very consistent.
[This message has been edited by midwest1 (edited 09-15-2003).]
__________________ "We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." Abraham Lincoln
Good luck! Just read what a difficult time so many of us have even working with trained practitioners. We may fuss about them and switch around,but we do go to them. We read all the info we can. We share on this BB. Some of us have increased or decreased our doses,but the meds are prscribed for us from controlled sources.
Really it is sad that people have to resort to self-treatment because of the incompetence of the doctors. It happens more than some of you in here really realize. And then too there's really not much danger in doing it as long as you are competent and know what you are doing. If you hang around enough groups, read, and study, you'll find enough information that you could do it yourself without a problem as long as you get access to the materials involved (you can order the tests and the supplements both over the internet legally).
Personally I feel I could do that for me and I'm OK with it, but a lot of it is just the question of fear of taking responsibility of your own care.
You had better know your own illness and know how to present it to the drs. It is alarming just how much trouble we are in.If you don't have it,you don't understand it! We know it,just not how to get it across to the drs. If you take a list of your symptoms to the dr they look at you as if to say"OH BOY,WHAT HAVE WE GOT HERE?" What we have here is a patient with more info than the dr,more than likly,has. One day the prepared patient will be respected not feared. Keep asking around about drs in your area.Go to the offices of cancer drs,radiology depts,ear nose&throat drs and ask the staff who they would go to.I found out about the only endo in town from the women that did my thyroid ultrasound. Do let us know how you are doing. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/heart.gif
please stop this ... i don't even know what Dessicated Bovine Thyroid Tissue and Dessicated Bovine Adrenal Tissue are ... but as usual, i THINK you should taper off, not just stop cold turkey ... what do others think?
keep the faith ...
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Originally posted by jinglebts: please stop this ... i don't even know what Dessicated Bovine Thyroid Tissue and Dessicated Bovine Adrenal Tissue are ... but as usual, i THINK you should taper off, not just stop cold turkey ... what do others think?
The big question is does this guy/gal know what he/she is doing? There's the big rub here. But there's nothing freaky about these things. Armour as an example is Dessicated Porcine Thyroid Tissue. Isocort is the natural adrenal tissue option. These things happen. Some people prefer to use the bovine (cattle) option compared to the porcine option for different reasons (religion, allergies, etc).
I don't see anything wrong with self-treatment personally, but the caveat has to be there that they know what they're doing. Most of the regulars in the boards I follow DO know what they're doing and most of them self-treat.
The thought of anyone self-treating shouldn't be reviling anyway, if it is sickening to anybody it should be that doctors aren't competent enough. But then too, the doctors shouldn't be responsible for your care anyway - it's you. In a sane world, doctors are just advisers, not the final decision and interest for care. The thing is you are the only one that knows how you are feeling, not the doctor. And is the doctor going to look out for your interests? Hell no, he's looking out for his own self. He's got a patient coming into his office every 15-30 minutes, and probably 1000 or more patients total that he sees.
Why should the doctor care about you and how you're feeling? He's going to still get paid his money for his office visit whether he cures you or leaves you languishing. In fact, it makes him more money to leave you languishing and coming back for the symptoms that he won't call hypothyroid symptoms.
Self-treatment is the sanest choice, if you know what you're doing. And it should be applauded not decried.
The biggest problem in society today with the medical industry (yes it's a medical industry, those people are there to make money, not cure people), is that people don't take charge for their own care and don't take charge to hold the service providers called doctors to the fire for quality service just the same as they would hold a mechanic to the fire for not fixing their car right.
And isn't your own body and your own life more important than a car? The rights of medical freedom that we inherently have have been so stomped upon so much in this country (Dr. Benjamin Rush, MD proposed that it be specified in the Constitution the same as religious freedom was, but he was voted down - the key thing to remember is that the Constitution is an exclusionary document, meaning everything not spelled out in the main document is considered a right for the states or the people themselves) that people don't question the doctors. I think part of it too is this attitude in here that since they're not doctors they have no way or comprehension of understanding the necessary information and applying it - that they must not self-treat for their own protection because they are too stupid to understand medical information. Or just the fear of actually stepping outside of that timid wall and placing your care in the hands of another who doesn't have your best interests at heart.
The fact is, Dr. Benjamin Rush was right, the doctors have become the Bastille...have become an undercover medical dictatorship thrashing people's rights to life liberty and the persuit of happiness for a buck.
Part of another post I wrote on this, including Rush's exact quote:
But I would change physician and medical professional to those who are truly knowledgable and willing to treat the patient...
Medical professionals are like any other service provider...there's good ones and bad ones (unfortunately for thyroid problems many many more BAD ones than good).
I don't discourage seeking out medical professional advice...unfortunately with the oligarchy the medical profession has set up for themselves, that's a fact of life.
But what I do discourage is taking for granted that they in fact have the necessary knowledge to treat the illness and more importantly the willingness to treat their patients' symptoms and not lab sheets.
Generally, if you want good treatment you need to have the knowledge to evaluate for yourself. Definitely from everything I've seen (and including my own experiences), the medical profession by and large has been a complete failure in treating thyroid disorders.
But are they concerned and taking steps to improve service? No! Why should they? The establishment has a monopoly on medical service. Why would they concern themselves with a bunch of people suffering at their hands because of insufficient testing and treatment practices? There's diseases out there killing people! There's much more glory out there saving lives than improving the lives of a bunch of people who are just complaining...
After all, if the "almighty TSH test" says they're normal, they must be alright and just complaining and have mental problems...
Final thought - Benjamin Rush, MD one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence (the only "medical professional" to sign any founding documents, as well as George Washington's personal physician) said:
"UNLESS WE PUT MEDICAL FREEDOM INTO THE CONSTITUTION, THE TIME WILL COMEWHEN MEDICINE WILL ORGANIZE INTO AN UNDERCOVER DICTATORSHIP . . . TO
RESTRICT THE ART OF HEALING TO ONE CLASS OF MEN, AND DENY EQUAL PRIVILEGE TO OTHERS, WILL BE TO CONSTITUTE THE BASTILLE OF MEDICAL SCIENCE. ALL SUCH LAWS ARE UN-AMERICAN AND DESPOTIC AND HAVE NO PLACE IN A REPUBLIC . . . THE CONSTITUTION OF THIS REPUBLIC SHOULD MAKE SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FOR MEDICAL FREEDOM AS WELL AS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM."
Unfortunately and sadly, he was all too prophetic.
Fighting the power to save others from going through the plight of bad doctors in this illness like I have...
[This message has been edited by Sky_Eagle1 (edited 09-17-2003).]
And that's a valid one at the same time too. But it's good to ask questions to help moderate that one too, and that's what the original poster is doing, and what lots of self-treatment folks do. If they don't know entirely what they're doing and have a question about something, it'd be better to ask us than to go ahead with it. The thing is though we need to be encouraging about that, instead of saying "don't do it" as you essentially did. The original poster probably sees that and concludes this isn't a friendly place to ask those kinds of questions. If you have objections to dessicated bovine thyroid tissue, as an example, why not state the objection and your reasoning?
Please, let us be entirely constructive here and not drive away a portion of the audience that may come here and participate because we may seem close-minded to their particular practices and choices. I have a person I referred to here that got driven away because of that - that's the thing, we need to be supportive and encouraging to all who come here - that's what everybody needs here really.
Some people actually do recover on over the counter thyroid glandular and adrenal glandular. If it's a mild case, yes, you could possibly improve. The symptoms you describe... being tirec again,etc. are indicative of needing an increase.
I wouldn't be scared of what you are doing.. if you become hyper you most certainly will not like it and will reduce your supplements. If you like the "natural" approach you may want to consult with a licensed herbalist in your area. Not just the health food store clerk, a licensed herbalist.
I went to an herbalist in the beginning when I was at wits end with this @#$%%#$$# ing disorder.
He helped me alot.. big time. He gave me tinctures of this and that and they really helped me. I also take adrenal glandular from the herbalist.
Just be careful about the bovine. Armour thyroid stopped using bovine because of the possible risk of mad cow disease infecting the cattle. Armour now uses porcine. Just make sure it is a reputable company you are ordering from. I made this statement a few months back and got the big POO POO... but hey, it's the real deal so I'd like to pass it on.
In response to your question how would these supplements compare to armour? The thyroid glandular and the adrenal glandular go through a process to get the active hormones out... BUT, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get ALL the hormone out.. that is why you will still get an effect from them.
I use raw thyroid tissue extract which is not an Rx and I have been doing so for 8 years with no ill effects. In fact, my thyroid numbers have never been better! My Endo. knows about this & although he would prefer I take what he wants me to take, our agreement is that as long as my numbers are stable he is fine with it.
I agree with Daldre, don't let others scare you out of your wits. You will learn what does or does not work for "your" body. We should be doing this anyway and not just relying on authorities outside of ourselves. Healthcare is a joint venture, not just something someone tells us to do. I believe in research and becoming as knowledgeable as possible so that we "can" particpate in decisions about "our" bodies.
Thanks for the affirmation S_E, and others. I am the research it and ask questions type, and thankful for the knowledge you all have to share, and directions to learn more. I am still taking the the supplements, feeling better, and weird at the same time...I added a second dose of the 130mg bovine thyroid yesterday afternoon, as I have been taking the stuff at about 5or6am, then adding the progest-e drops under tongue at afternoon time. So yesterday after that first extra dose of thryoid only, I felt starving, ate chinese for dinner, and laid down at 6:30pm...my husband came and laid down at some point I guess, and my teenage daughter peeked in at 8 something to tell me she was cooking a pizza, next thing I knew it was 11pm. Now that isn't so unusual for my hypo self, BUT, I had no sweating, or aching, which I always have had when I sleep, I went back to bed, and slept until 5am, straight through... I have had trouble sleeping at night, with lots of in body buzzing, tingling, aching, sweating yucky sleep at night, this was really good sleep I haven't had in a looong time! This am, I decided to skip the adrenal supplement, and only take the thryoid...as I have kind of felt like I had too much coffee after taking both. so far so good. I plan on taking the second dose of thyroid in late afternoon on empty stomach as per. Thanks for listening and being there, I plan on talking to my obgyn, after I get a feel for her angle, believe me, they all have one. I will keep looking for support, a Licenced herbalist,etc. I also will order more bloodwork in a couple of months, including anti bodies, if I can get that one online...that is if I don't find a sympathetic dr. I mostly have been proactive about my health and the health of my family, and feel comfortable being responsable for my own body. Thanks Sky Eagle for comin' to the rescue, I thought I might have to abandon ship here if it meant escaping the scoffing and nay-saying. You all are wonderful, and I really appreciate your honesty, I'd just like the opportunity to be honest too, and get the help I need if it is out there. Love, Pen