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Old 11-29-2004, 03:23 PM   #1
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Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Question to all who read this board,

Is anyone mixing synthetic with armour and how's it working out?

I've been on armour for the past 9 months and while much better than straight synthetic I am now trying to combine the two for an optimum balance.

I was taking between 3 grains and 2.75 grains of armour per day. Well, the armour site says a grain of armour is about the same as 100mcg of synthetic t4. But 300mcg of synthetic would kill me. Just way too much. So I'm trying 2 grains of armour and 50mcg of synthetic but I think I'm feeling that even that is too much for my body.

Does anybody have a different opinion on the conversion rate of armour to synthetic?

Does anybody believe that by combining armour and synthetic, one is able to reduce one's overall amount of taking the equivelent of just one?
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:42 PM   #2
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abigchocoholic
Question to all who read this board,

Is anyone mixing synthetic with armour and how's it working out?

I've been on armour for the past 9 months and while much better than straight synthetic I am now trying to combine the two for an optimum balance.

I was taking between 3 grains and 2.75 grains of armour per day. Well, the armour site says a grain of armour is about the same as 100mcg of synthetic t4. But 300mcg of synthetic would kill me. Just way too much. So I'm trying 2 grains of armour and 50mcg of synthetic but I think I'm feeling that even that is too much for my body.

Does anybody have a different opinion on the conversion rate of armour to synthetic?

Does anybody believe that by combining armour and synthetic, one is able to reduce one's overall amount of taking the equivelent of just one?
I take 1.5 grains of Armour and 100mcg Unithroid. I have been doing this for quite some time. Rather than try to figure out what is equivalent to what, just adjust your dose so you get Free T3 and Free T4 where you want them. Easier said than done, but with tima and patience it feels GREAT!
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Last edited by Meep; 11-29-2004 at 08:43 PM.

 
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Old 11-30-2004, 06:56 AM   #3
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

To add more to my post last night:

1 Grain of Armour contains:
38mcg T4 and 9mcg T3

When you went to 2 Grains and 50mcg, you lowered your T3 by 9mcg while raising your T4 by 12mcg. Your Free T4 shoudl come up some and your Free T3 should go down some.

If you aren't testing your Free T3 and Free T4, then you should be. Aim to get Free T3 and Free T4 both at about 75% or so on the range, or right in the middle of the top half of the range, then stick there.
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:23 AM   #4
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
I take 1.5 grains of Armour and 100mcg Unithroid. I have been doing this for quite some time. Rather than try to figure out what is equivalent to what, just adjust your dose so you get Free T3 and Free T4 where you want them. Easier said than done, but with tima and patience it feels GREAT!
----------------------------
Interesting. How much do you weigh? And how did you arrive at that? And do you take it all in the morning or what? Have you tried any other combinations that worked equally well? Do you live with any hyper or hypo symptoms? Do you ever have to adjust? Do you feel great?

I'm asking because what you are taking is pretty close to what I'm taking. I'm taking 1/2 grain more armour so 19mcg of t4 and 5mcg of t3 more on the one side but 50mcg less of t4 from synthetic on the other.

I've been feeling better on this combination than I did on straight armour. I really think I'm closing in on the optimum combination.
Although, one of the effects of 3 grains of armour was that my libido was sky high. Too high I think. Certainly higher than it is on this combination. I could tell what women sexually interested as if it were an extra sense I had--or maybe I was just mis-perceiving it that way because I had sex on the brain.

It sure has been an eye opener to find out I am driven or not driven as the case may be by the chemicals in my body.
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Old 12-01-2004, 07:07 AM   #5
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abigchocoholic
How much do you weigh?
I weigh between 150 and 155. wehn I first arrived at my current dose, I weighed as much as 178. I am male and about 5'9", so I am right about where I should be weight-wise.
Quote:
And how did you arrive at that?
Time and patience. I arrived at this dose after over two years of tweaking and adjusting slowly a tiny bit at a time. First I got Free T3 roughly in the range I wanted it to be (3.7 or so in a range of 2.3-4.2), then very slowly adjusted Armour and Unithroid doses testing after each change, until I also got my Free T4 where I wanted it (1.5 in a range of .8-1.8).

Quote:
And do you take it all in the morning or what?
I split my dose morning and afternoon. In the morning, I take 100mcg Unithroid and half of a 90mg Armour, adn in the afternoon, I take the rest of the Armour.

Quote:
Have you tried any other combinations that worked equally well?
I have been on so amny different doses of Unithroid and Armour, that I couldn't tell you what they all are, but I know that the combination I am on now is the best I have tried for me. For a while, I took Synthroid instead of Unithroid, but that was because my wife worked for a doctor and got me samples of it for free. I noticed no difference between the Synthroid and Unithroid, for my purposes.

Quote:
Do you live with any hyper or hypo symptoms?
Not any to speak of. My life and health are those of a healthy person, except for having to stop and take my meds a few times a day.

Quote:
Do you ever have to adjust? Do you feel great?
I haven't changed my dose in over a year and a half. I am overdue for a blood test and may or may not adjust my dose, depending on what my Free T3 and Free T4 look like. Since I feel well, I may not change at all, unless they are way off. I feel better now at almost 35 years old than I can ever remember feeling.

Quote:
I'm asking because what you are taking is pretty close to what I'm taking. I'm taking 1/2 grain more armour so 19mcg of t4 and 5mcg of t3 more on the one side but 50mcg less of t4 from synthetic on the other.
Getting Free T3 and Free T4 optimized is key. Taking baby steps to get there is imperative. IF you can post your Free T3 and Free T4 labs, taken at least 8 hours away from when you took your meds, I'll give you an ide of a dose that will start you headed in the right direction.

Quote:
I've been feeling better on this combination than I did on straight armour. I really think I'm closing in on the optimum combination. ...It sure has been an eye opener to find out I am driven or not driven as the case may be by the chemicals in my body.
Me too!

Keep me posted on your labs and progress!
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Last edited by Meep; 12-01-2004 at 07:10 AM.

 
Old 12-03-2004, 02:35 PM   #6
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Kind of unfortunate but I started getting throbbing headaches with the combo armour and levoxthroid(sp?). Well, they weren't actually headaches like some describe headaches-- I'm lucky I don't get those-- but I could feel throbbing in my temples and in the back of my head. Very annoying, put me in a bad mood. Other than that I was quite pleased with my physical state for the most part.

It took me about a week to figure out what the headaches were and that they were caused by my thyroid meds. I've never had that before and it just didn't register for awhile. So I stopped taking the levoxthroid(sp?) and the throbbing was reduced by about 90%. I still feel it a touch but it's probably because of the half life of t4 is so long.

I'm pretty sure I was taking too much. Before I combined I was taking up to 3 grains of armour a day and figured 1 grain equalled about 100mcg of synthetic so that's what I started with as a replacement-- 2 grains of armour and 100mcg of synthetic. Then, after the bad effects, I went down to 50mcg of synthetic. But the weird headaches persisted so I went back to straight armour for a week and am now am trying 2 grains of armour and 25mgc of synthetic. And I happen to have some levoxyl so I'm taking 25mcg of that just to make sure it wasn't a brand issue.

I haven't been on any synthetic in so long, I just wasn't thinking. A couple of years ago, when I was on straight synthetic I could never handle more than about 150mcg so I should have known that 2 grains of armour and 100mcg would be too much.

For me armour symptoms and changes have been a day to day thing. Literally, I could change doses and feel a difference within one day. But with the synthetic, it seems it takes 2-3 weeks or so to build and then another 2 weeks or so to get used up. It's an entirely different game/adjustment.

Going to be a little smarter this time around.
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Old 12-03-2004, 05:30 PM   #7
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Danny:

Not to highjack the thread...but I am finding this so tantalizing!!!

VERY interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was wondering how frequently you did the bloodwork while you were doing the adjustments. Every month...every three months?

My new endo thinks I should drop my 100mcgs 6 days, 150 mcg on the seventh-day -protocal. She wants to do 100 mcg of T4 and 5mcg of Cytomel. I persuaded her to try a time-release version. YES!!! Her goal is to try to establish a baseline. I can see that. I can also see how she lacks certain insights like the rest of the endos I've seen, but she's not as rigid as some of them...and that makes her acceptable for now.

I tried to float the porcine extract idea, but she says she is against it for now, and wants to just "cleanly start" me over....with 100 t4 /5 t3 combo. I figure that is "fair enough." Not a great response..but understandable.

I haven't filled the script yet, because I'm waiting for the labs to see if there is anything going on the would imply a employing a different strategy. So..its will be roughly two weeks before that T3 will be ready.

So in the meantime...TAP..TAP....TAP

For funzies...I thought while waiting for result...I would do an experiement on myself. I cut an old Armour pill into fours/then ground (one fourth) up till I had formed a line. Then I cut the line in half. I ate one of those portions...so it was 1/2 of a quarter grain. Probably equal to 7 roughly milligrams.

I felt an immediate reaction. It was a little aggressive, but when the heat settled...I actually started to feel better. WOW! I started walking around and talking. (I've been mummied for so long!) There's no denying the power of the ARMOUR..!

So...the question gets to be...if I did that (the little 7 milligrams) along with the new protocal, would that really be hurting anything? I'm thinking, if I ordered a test in a month, I can guage what is happening, and perhaps feel human again at the same time. Sitting here for nine months...has been killer.

I figure I can always persuade her to "offcially add that tiny portion in" as part of my protocal when I have more power. She won't really know...Right? It would be such a small request in three months that I can't see her turning me down. Then...three months after that, she'll see how everything stayed STABLE...and we both got what we wanted...Right?

 
Old 12-03-2004, 08:25 PM   #8
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

you hit on what I'm dealing with-- self medication. I probably seemed crazed to some but it's my body and I'm the one that has to live life with all the bad symptoms.

The symptoms can be so bad they can affect relationships, job or worse. So when a doc says do x and come back in 3 months-- I don't think so. I do x and I'll know in a day to a week or two if it's going south.

the problem with self medication is being objective. One really has to be in touch with one's body and not attribute everything to thyroid but only that what is really thyroid. And I'm sure a problem I've dealt with in the past is the yo you syndrome--where I go from one extreme to another but hey, at least I get to pass through perfect on the way. And the idea is to keep shortening the yo yo string until it's gone.

If you feel that much better on 9mcg of armour which is only going to have about 1mcg of t3, I see no reason to wait. If I were you I'b be doing half synthetic and half armour and monitor very closely.
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Old 12-03-2004, 10:32 PM   #9
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Mint:

Yes...That's my feeling too MINT. I think my case is includes compromised ADRENALS...like Meep and Midwest brought up a couple months back.

I've been to two endos trying to get someone to listen to me about that...so I sent out a spit kit on my own a couple weeks ago. Now I'm having to try and get the new endo to OKAY it. (ITs stuck in the processing because unbeknownst to me when I sent it, it required a doctors approval). I hope I get the results...and it all works out. Right now I'm on pins and needles just waiting.

(By the way..that spit thing is no easy trick!)

Funny thing is I've SUFFERED greatly since my first THYROID pill on...and the docs all have whacked out...non-answers...and never care to look for any REAL ones. "Gee the pills are supposed to make you feel good....you must be a weirdo."

This last one, surmised I probably am still in a state of shock from the surgery...LOL Too bad it's sooo serious. These people are FREAKING nuts... I swear.

The more I tried to follow instructions, the more my health declined. I'm sorry, but AS you say, it kills relationships (my boyfriend dumped me without so much as word) and has REAL consequences when you are not well.

I have no job now..no car, have to live with the MA, and have just signed on with COBRA....at over $350 dollars per month (to get this great healthMIScare). This sick waiting game has got to come to an end...otherwise I'll be out on the street...and defenseless in my sick/dimented state. ARG!!

That's what I mean...three months? What is up with that? T3...is immediate..and this chic wants me to wait...three whole months. That's through the holidays...and past my birthday!!!

I'll be old!

Yes...so now I have to ask for permission to feel well? Since when did that happen?

I think if I do have an adrenal problem...how easy would that have to fix nine months ago? It costs $15.00 for bottle of cortef...THAT's it! If I've lost life for a friggen fifteen dollar item...I swear I'll SCREAM!!!

Now...I know why people want to sue their doctors..YA KNOW?

I agree with you MINT...why should someone wait...like a PLEBE, a SAP...a pathetic ...nevermind... I'm getting carried away here. LOL

Thanks for response...that VENTING..really made me feel good.

~S

 
Old 12-03-2004, 11:07 PM   #10
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Thumbs up Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by softcrush
Thanks for response...that VENTING..really made me feel good.

~S


And Thank YOU, Soft, that really made ME feel good too!!! I'm over here laughing out loud..I LOVED it, and couldn't agree with you more!!!!
You've almost talked me into self treament now! hehe...

Deda

 
Old 12-04-2004, 01:53 PM   #11
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour/meep

I have been reading the posts and your replies, meep.

My last lab several days ago was:

FT4 0.8 (0.6-1.2)
FT3 370 (2.77-5.27)

my FT3 has been dropping the higher I go on synthroid. I have been on 150 synthroid for approximately 3 months. I really would like to get my FT4 a little higher and my FT3 quite a bit higher.

What dose of armour would you suggest in addition to the 150 synthroid?

thank you.

 
Old 12-05-2004, 07:14 PM   #12
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by softcrush
I was wondering how frequently you did the bloodwork while you were doing the adjustments. Every month...every three months?
I tried to do it every 6-8 weeks, but sometimes money wouldn't allow that and it might be 6 months occasionally.

Quote:
...For funzies...I thought while waiting for result...I would do an experiement on myself. I cut an old Armour pill into fours/then ground (one fourth) up till I had formed a line. Then I cut the line in half. I ate one of those portions...so it was 1/2 of a quarter grain. Probably equal to 7 roughly milligrams.
You are adding 1.125mcg T3 and 4.75mcg T4 that way.

Quote:
I felt an immediate reaction. It was a little aggressive, but when the heat settled...I actually started to feel better. WOW! I started walking around and talking. (I've been mummied for so long!) There's no denying the power of the ARMOUR..!
Gotta love that T3!

Quote:
So...the question gets to be...if I did that (the little 7 milligrams) along with the new protocal, would that really be hurting anything? I'm thinking, if I ordered a test in a month, I can guage what is happening, and perhaps feel human again at the same time. Sitting here for nine months...has been killer.
I dont' personally see how it could hurt anything, but your doctor might or might not like it. With it being such a small amount it would probably be consisdered inconsequential, but you and I both know that even a tiny amount can make a big difference.

Quote:
I figure I can always persuade her to "offcially add that tiny portion in" as part of my protocal when I have more power. She won't really know...Right? It would be such a small request in three months that I can't see her turning me down. Then...three months after that, she'll see how everything stayed STABLE...and we both got what we wanted...Right?
It might work. just make sure that you bring it up in such a way that your doc isn't upset by it.
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Old 12-05-2004, 07:24 PM   #13
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour/meep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuibono
I have been reading the posts and your replies, meep.

My last lab several days ago was:

FT4 0.8 (0.6-1.2)
FT3 370 (2.77-5.27)

my FT3 has been dropping the higher I go on synthroid. I have been on 150 synthroid for approximately 3 months. I really would like to get my FT4 a little higher and my FT3 quite a bit higher.

What dose of armour would you suggest in addition to the 150 synthroid?

thank you.

Right now, your Free T4 is also still very low by my standards. What is your TSH at this point? TSH, while not a good indicator of thyroid levels CAN be a good tool to see what your body think. Is your thyroid gland still functioning?

If your thyroid gland is still functioning and your TSH was higher, buthas dropped, then your thyroid gland is producing less, now, and might be part of the "dropping levels puzzle". This hapens often.
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:21 PM   #14
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Re: Is anyone mixing synthetic and Armour?

Thank you your input Danny.

 
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