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Old 12-02-2004, 03:14 PM   #1
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Question Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

I've got an observation. One that has likely been brought up on this site before. I was just on the Menopause boards....just looking...reading. I came across a posting that said "let's list symtoms and compare" or something like that. Anyway...my point is this: After reading everyone's lists of perimenopausal symptoms, I had to check at the top of the site to make I wasn't on this site! I promise...most of the symptoms, from muscle spasms to unexplained weight gain, to fatigue and mood swings sounded EXACTLY like those of most hypo symtoms! What's the connection? All hormones, right? OK....is it possible to be both perimenopausal AND struggling with hypo? I also read recently that many times being perimenopausal will throw your thyroid out of whack! If you're a female, 40-49 y/o, struggling with hypo BUT all lab results indicate "normal" - how likely is it that it may NOT be the thyroid and actually be suffering from perimenopause? If this is possible, what would one do for help?? Any ideas, opinions?
LucyPearl

 
Old 12-02-2004, 04:33 PM   #2
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucyPearl
If you're a female, 40-49 y/o, struggling with hypo BUT all lab results indicate "normal" - how likely is it that it may NOT be the thyroid and actually be suffering from perimenopause? If this is possible, what would one do for help?? Any ideas, opinions?
LucyPearl

If lab results are normal, especially the FREE levels I think I would be more inclined to think it is perimenopause. If you suspect your hormones, have them checked, between day 18 to 20 have your estrogen, progesterone, estradiol and DHEA checked, this will give you an idea of what your hormones are doing.
Thyroid problems do tend to show up about that time, and I have read it can have something to do with estrogen dominance and adding progesterone can help.
All our hormones sort of work together and if one is out of whack it just throws off everything else.
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Old 12-02-2004, 04:47 PM   #3
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Dea4...I've been looking around for resolutions for perimenopausal problems. I am finding that many supplements contain soy - big no no for hypo What could be another alternative? B/C pills? that's more estrogen, right? Never took B/C pills in my life. Oh boy....this is crazy! I turned 45 and seems like all hell has broken loose...just don't know if it's my thryoid totally or perimenopause or a little of both! I have my Free's checked again in a couple of weeks, so I'll have a better idea.
Yeah right...I used to think it was wonderful being a female...I guess I still do...but I'd sure like less complications in my next life....still a female....oh, and lots more money would help, too!
hehehehe....
LucyPearl

 
Old 12-02-2004, 04:57 PM   #4
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucyPearl
I also read recently that many times being perimenopausal will throw your thyroid out of whack! If you're a female, 40-49 y/o, struggling with hypo BUT all lab results indicate "normal" - how likely is it that it may NOT be the thyroid and actually be suffering from perimenopause? If this is possible, what would one do for help?? Any ideas, opinions?
LucyPearl
Lets throw another twist on this mess. There are thyroid hormone receptors on the ovaries. IF the ovaries don't detect enough thyroid hormone they alter the levels of estrogen and progesterone, causing menopause-liek symptoms in many women. Now, knowing that, we have to ask, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

I really believe that many cases of "perimenopause" and "early menopause" are actually un-treated or under-treated hypothyroidism. I feel that if doctors were trained to optimize Free T3 and Free T4 levels rather than the easier "keep TSH in range" approach to treating hypothyroidism, then we woudl eliminate some of that.
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:47 PM   #5
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Meep...
You've got to be kidding, right?? I have (all women w/ovaries) have thyroid receptors on our ovaries? Good Grief, I had no idea. So basically what you're saying is that if the thyroid is off and not sending out enough hormone, the ovaries send out more estrogen? Is that what's called estrogen dominate? Suppose you don't have any ovaries? I've had a partial hysterectomy - still have healthy ovaries so GYN doc said best to leave them. Sooo, while I don't have a period...YIPPEE!! I still do ovulate and have not had to take HRT since my ovaries still produce estrogen. I'm convince about what you're saying about docs optimizing T3 and T4 levels. You wisely advised me of that in one of my earlier posts (thank you so much again!). I'm definately going to inform my doc (politely, of course) that I really want to concentrate on bringing my Free T3 up to around 370 - maybe like you said, adding another 5mg of cytomel will do the trick. I just couldn't help but be amazed at how very similar the symptoms are between perimenopause and hypo! I also noticed that many of the women on the menopause board also mentioned having been tested for thyroid problems. I tell you...sometimes too much info is a confusing thing! It can be a little overwhelming when you're not sure what to do with all this new found information. I've never had to work this hard or think so much about my health in my life!
LucyPearl

 
Old 12-02-2004, 06:07 PM   #6
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Actually Lucy THIS is EXACTLY what I'm currently doing. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can be both. You see Lucy, as we age, our systems tire, as opposed to when we where young. Not to mention that we live in an estrogene dominent society....where TONS of stuff called Xenohormones are all around us....such as pesticides, solvents, plastics and the like. These things are absorbed into our systems and act like "estrogen" ~ which makes us estrogen dominent. Then we don't make enough progesterone to balance it properly...then eventually we are really out of whack.

THIS is a HUGE HUGE HUGE Issue for many of us woman. Most Dr.'s don't even "GET" this yet. If you think they don't "get" thyroid doctoring, they REALLY don't get hormone therapy.

This is EXACTLY what I'm currently exploring and starting with my compounding pharmacy. It's called bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. It's Natural hormone replacement~ PLEASE MAKE NOTE NATURAL NOT synthetic. Synthetic is NOT good. But, again, like synthroid, it's what MOST Dr.'s prescribe...and it leads to a whole HOST of bad things.

NATURAL hormone replacement therapy hasn't got the side effects that synthetic does! Synthetic should be avoided! NATURAL is good!

Lucy, first I suggest getting Dr. John Lee's book What Your Doctor May NOT Tell you about PREMENOPAUSE. Read that. He recommends progesterone cream. Which I have been using for six months now and I DO like it....but I feel as though I NEED prescription strength....so that has lead me to the compounding pharmacy.

I allllllllllllso suggest gently to you to check out your local compounding pharmacy and inquire if they do this bioidentical hormone replacement therapy...and see IF they have a seminar on it? OR if they can recommend a Dr. for you to go to to see IF they feel you can definitely be helped? Which, after hearing about how stressed out and upset you've been that your in the same boat as I am and would definitely fit the discription. I'm almost willing to bet MANY MANY of us woman can benefit from this...but, I guess only those whom are interested will learn for themselves.

Believe me when I say this...I'm NOT a "health/natural" person by nature...but I have a feeling that I soon will certainly incorporate a great deal of this into my new life style...because quite frankly it makes FAR TOO MUCH SENSE!!!!!!!!

Incorporating progesterone cream into your daily routine will improve things for you. Not to mention one of the benefits is to help support your thyroid function. Please view this as I "team" type of thinking...as opposed to ONE problem or the other...they are all inter related.

Now, why I suggest you search for a DR who's knowledgable about this is because we are talking powerful stuff when we are dealiing with hormones...and you need the guidance of a knowledgable Dr to help US get balanced. They know what to look for, and what blood tests to have you get done, and how to read them for your OPTIMUM WELL BEING. As MUCH as we are desperate to "do it yourself" when we can....Lucy, some of us NEED a higher strength then what you can get over the counter...and in the end we don't want to mess up something or only feel slightly better...when feeling WONDERFUL AND NORMAL is acheivable with the right TEAM behind us.

I will definitely keep you informed on this very subject. It seems complex...but, like the thyroid, eventually the information makes sense.

 
Old 12-02-2004, 06:20 PM   #7
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

This is so true! I know that once I turned around 45, I started sinking into depression, I could not lose weight for nothing, and was ALWAYS TIRED! I think you are absolutely right. The symptoms are the same. Some things I have read says it could be estrogen dominance...we still produce estrogen, but practically no progesterone. It's very interesting. This could all be linked to low thyroid. As a matter of fact, I have read recently that around 20 percent of women age 50 and over are borderline hypo or hypo!

 
Old 12-02-2004, 06:48 PM   #8
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Lynn,
Thank you for your response! Gosh you're smart. You've obviously been doing your homework! Good for you, Lyn! and thanks for sharing with us. Yes, I think I will get Dr. Lee's book...I want to know what the docs AREN'T telling us! Now tell me more about the progesterone cream... I've been on the net researching about what to do to relief perimenopause symptoms and so far I see supplements with the dreaded SOY You know for us hypos soy is evil Anyway...you say you like the cream. How exactly has it helped you? How often do you use it? and, hope I'm not being too personal but where exactly do you rub it? Sorry if I'm inquisitive but I'm learning and no so little about this. By using this progesterone, does that make us women less estrogen dominant? Any side effects to speak of? Details, my dear, please...details Thanks!

Silly,
I feel you on that depression stuff and God knows I know the feeling about not being able to lose weight. ARe you on meds now? If so, what do you take and are you feeling better? Depression gone? any weight lost? I've been soooo frustrated in the past 6 weeks. I'm usually a very cheery upbeat person...always believeing something better is around the corner or just up the road. Lately...I don't like anybody or anything!!...especially the "anybody" part. I don't want to talk to people...don't want to participate in activities. It's a little better than it was before my meds were increased and I'm on Cytomel (T3) now so I think that may account for improved mental state, but I'm telling you...it's been rough In the beginning, all I wanted to do was stay in the house, I cried all the time and I hated my life. I went from my cheery self to this stranger in less than a month and I didin't know what happened...it happened so quickly and in a flash. Almost as soon as I turned 45 it's like my body said..."ok now...it's time...just what we've been waiting for...let's get her!" and it has. But I WILL NOT BE DEFEATED ... in Jesus' name I'm STILL going to be victorious. I might be a little loonier right now...but I'm NOT giving up
LucyPearl

 
Old 12-02-2004, 07:54 PM   #9
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

[QUOTE=LucyPearl]Lynn Anyway...you say you like the cream. How exactly has it helped you? How often do you use it? and, hope I'm not being too personal but where exactly do you rub it? Sorry if I'm inquisitive but I'm learning and no so little about this. By using this progesterone, does that make us women less estrogen dominant? Any side effects to speak of? Details, my dear, please...details Thanks!

Lucy, with me, nothing is "too" personal. It's very important that we woman talk about this. Or, how else would we learn?

I put on the progesterone cream just before I go to bed. You have four different places that they suggest...rotating each night. You chest, abdomen, inside legs or inside arms. I do my best to switch spots each night. But, I tend to rub it on my upper chest and arms more often then not. I don't think it REALLY matters...but, perhaps it does? I'll have to ask my new Dr. or the compounding pharmacist this?

Yes, it will help balance the estrogen. If your estrogen dominant...your estrogen is running unopposed. Which is why we suffer PMS, depression, bloating, migrains...etc. It's VERY MUCH the cause of a great deal!

Progesterone is also helpful in osteoparosis avoidance. Progesterone builds bones. Progessterone is a hormone that supports NEWNESS....it's what is necessary to help the egg survive. It supports LIFE..if this makes any sense to you??? It's a PROMOTER. It protects against endrometrial, breast, ovarian and prostrate cancer. It normalises blood clotting. (Excess estrogen causes abnormal blood clotting). It acts as a natural diuretic. Acts as a natural antidepressant. Helps normalize blood sugar levels. Helps thyroid function. Helps use fat for energy. (estrogen coverts food energy into fat). Has beneficial anti-inflammatory effects. Reduces incidence of autoimmune disorders. Is thermogenic (raises body temperature). Helps metabolize body fat for energy production. Helps prevent hypertension. Prevents yeast infections. Increases immuoglobin E (lg-E) to help prevent sinus, respiratory, and vaginal infections and allergic reactions.

This is just SOME of what Progesterone does. While too much estrogen effects us negatively. It's having a hay day with our tired bodies...but since Dr's aren't "UP" on this...they have NO CLUE. Heck, some Dr's even put woman on MORE estrogen...synthetic estrogen....and it's really caused alot of BAD THINGS!!!

Side effects? Well....not any that I've read about with the NATURAL progesterone. It's made from yams actually. So there isn't anything harmful about it. It's almost TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE...but, I FEEL that infact it's wonderfully true.

How have I noticed it's helping me? Well...my actual period lasts at the MOST TWO DAYS. AND Much lighter. But...I can't say that I'm improving just yet with other symptoms...because I feel as though I've had a great deal of stress with several issues in my life within these past six months. Especially with my thyroid meds getting messed with. BUT...again Lucy, this is just the over the counter progesterone cream. I expect the care from the NEW knowledgable Dr. and personally compounded medication that will INCLUDE not only the progesterone, but my thyroid medication and my insulin medication will VASTLY improve my overall well being! They will adjust it TILL I'm "optimal"...I'm assuming anyways.

I hope THEN I will be able to successfully lose weight AND feel good. Not to mention FINALLY not have this annual winter bronchitus bout that I aaaaaallllllwaayyys suffer from.

Lucy...there is TONS of "good" that come from balanced hormones...all of our hormones. But..again, we MUST be careful and balance them correctly!!! I truely believe that the medical community (the ones that are WITH IT ANYWAYS) are at the verge of this breakthrough...but YOU have to go search for the knowledgeable DR....because so many Dr.'s are stuck in the HMO medical nightmare..and our "insurance" company's keep US from getting the quality care. I'm willing to pay a bit more for quality care..and be patient in waiting to be seen by QUALITY DR's...and my compounding pharmacy because ONCE I'm dealt with, I'm WELL on my way to OPTIMAL HEALTH.

THIS IS HOW I TRUELY FEEL!!!

US WOMAN are diagnosed FIVE TO ONE vs men with thyroid health and all sorts of OTHER problems....and WHY? because they are related and are being traced to our HORMONES!!! Our flucutate wildly compared to men....there fore they have GREATER chance of going arye. Not that men's hormones can't be out of whack too...it's just prodomently FEMALES are.

IF your PMS (10 days away from when you start) make you CRAZED...more then likely your estrogene domient. If your breast are tender during PMS....the list goes on and on and on. SOOOOOOOO MUCH of this overlaps with "thyroid" symptoms.....so again, it's not having to CHOOSE here...it's because you are deficent hormonally. OR one hormone is having a field day.

ALL of this is easily corrected. Get that book Lucy. Look in the phone book for your local compounding pharmacy and call them and ask questions. YOU will be AMAZED. Honest!!!!

 
Old 12-02-2004, 08:03 PM   #10
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Estrogene wears away bone. This could be the VERY REASON why we ache when we aren't properly medicated.

Lucy....I won't be home for the next few days...so PLEASE don't think I'm ignoring you after this post..OK? I really want to help you learn about this. It is AMAZING...and I think you will me THRILLED with the "hope" this brings to light.

I'm very excited to start my therapy...and I look forward to the new year because I have a fighting chance again...I believe. My medication is supposed to be done by the end of this week...only I won't be able to get it till next week. I'm so excited and anxious I can't hardly STAND IT! lol...but...I MUST control myself.

You know ME Miss ENTHUSIASUM! lol

Keep reading up on this stuff Lucy. You will read the same information time and time again on how promising this is. Remember it's BIOIDENTICAL HORMONE REPLACEMENT that is benificial. NOT synthetic. Progestin is the synthetic. Premarin is the synthetic. THIS ISN"T GOOD. Remember this! The synthetic causes side effects and is less effective anyways. Our bodies don't absorb anything that's not identical.

They use CREAMS because we get the MOST absorbtion that way. Trust me, the more I LEARN...I will share. Promise.

I just don't want to come accrossed this board that this is the ONLY WAY...but I tell ya...it's HUGE!!!!!! And I think it could make a HUGE difference in sooooooooooo many of us woman.

 
Old 12-03-2004, 04:39 AM   #11
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Lets throw another twist on this mess. There are thyroid hormone receptors on the ovaries. IF the ovaries don't detect enough thyroid hormone they alter the levels of estrogen and progesterone, causing menopause-liek symptoms in many women. Now, knowing that, we have to ask, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

I really believe that many cases of "perimenopause" and "early menopause" are actually un-treated or under-treated hypothyroidism. I feel that if doctors were trained to optimize Free T3 and Free T4 levels rather than the easier "keep TSH in range" approach to treating hypothyroidism, then we woudl eliminate some of that.

This is very intersting to know because right before I found out I had Hypothyroidism, my doctor thought I was starting early monopause because of all my symptoms. I definitely am Hypo though because my TSH levels were sky high. Thanks for the info

Chantel

 
Old 12-03-2004, 04:59 AM   #12
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

[QUOTE=LynnHan]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucyPearl
Lynn Anyway...you say you like the cream. How exactly has it helped you? How often do you use it? and, hope I'm not being too personal but where exactly do you rub it? Sorry if I'm inquisitive but I'm learning and no so little about this. By using this progesterone, does that make us women less estrogen dominant? Any side effects to speak of? Details, my dear, please...details Thanks!

Lucy, with me, nothing is "too" personal. It's very important that we woman talk about this. Or, how else would we learn?

I put on the progesterone cream just before I go to bed. You have four different places that they suggest...rotating each night. You chest, abdomen, inside legs or inside arms. I do my best to switch spots each night. But, I tend to rub it on my upper chest and arms more often then not. I don't think it REALLY matters...but, perhaps it does? I'll have to ask my new Dr. or the compounding pharmacist this?

Yes, it will help balance the estrogen. If your estrogen dominant...your estrogen is running unopposed. Which is why we suffer PMS, depression, bloating, migrains...etc. It's VERY MUCH the cause of a great deal!

Progesterone is also helpful in osteoparosis avoidance. Progesterone builds bones. Progessterone is a hormone that supports NEWNESS....it's what is necessary to help the egg survive. It supports LIFE..if this makes any sense to you??? It's a PROMOTER. It protects against endrometrial, breast, ovarian and prostrate cancer. It normalises blood clotting. (Excess estrogen causes abnormal blood clotting). It acts as a natural diuretic. Acts as a natural antidepressant. Helps normalize blood sugar levels. Helps thyroid function. Helps use fat for energy. (estrogen coverts food energy into fat). Has beneficial anti-inflammatory effects. Reduces incidence of autoimmune disorders. Is thermogenic (raises body temperature). Helps metabolize body fat for energy production. Helps prevent hypertension. Prevents yeast infections. Increases immuoglobin E (lg-E) to help prevent sinus, respiratory, and vaginal infections and allergic reactions.

This is just SOME of what Progesterone does. While too much estrogen effects us negatively. It's having a hay day with our tired bodies...but since Dr's aren't "UP" on this...they have NO CLUE. Heck, some Dr's even put woman on MORE estrogen...synthetic estrogen....and it's really caused alot of BAD THINGS!!!

Side effects? Well....not any that I've read about with the NATURAL progesterone. It's made from yams actually. So there isn't anything harmful about it. It's almost TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE...but, I FEEL that infact it's wonderfully true.

How have I noticed it's helping me? Well...my actual period lasts at the MOST TWO DAYS. AND Much lighter. But...I can't say that I'm improving just yet with other symptoms...because I feel as though I've had a great deal of stress with several issues in my life within these past six months. Especially with my thyroid meds getting messed with. BUT...again Lucy, this is just the over the counter progesterone cream. I expect the care from the NEW knowledgable Dr. and personally compounded medication that will INCLUDE not only the progesterone, but my thyroid medication and my insulin medication will VASTLY improve my overall well being! They will adjust it TILL I'm "optimal"...I'm assuming anyways.

I hope THEN I will be able to successfully lose weight AND feel good. Not to mention FINALLY not have this annual winter bronchitus bout that I aaaaaallllllwaayyys suffer from.

Lucy...there is TONS of "good" that come from balanced hormones...all of our hormones. But..again, we MUST be careful and balance them correctly!!! I truely believe that the medical community (the ones that are WITH IT ANYWAYS) are at the verge of this breakthrough...but YOU have to go search for the knowledgeable DR....because so many Dr.'s are stuck in the HMO medical nightmare..and our "insurance" company's keep US from getting the quality care. I'm willing to pay a bit more for quality care..and be patient in waiting to be seen by QUALITY DR's...and my compounding pharmacy because ONCE I'm dealt with, I'm WELL on my way to OPTIMAL HEALTH.

THIS IS HOW I TRUELY FEEL!!!

US WOMAN are diagnosed FIVE TO ONE vs men with thyroid health and all sorts of OTHER problems....and WHY? because they are related and are being traced to our HORMONES!!! Our flucutate wildly compared to men....there fore they have GREATER chance of going arye. Not that men's hormones can't be out of whack too...it's just prodomently FEMALES are.

IF your PMS (10 days away from when you start) make you CRAZED...more then likely your estrogene domient. If your breast are tender during PMS....the list goes on and on and on. SOOOOOOOO MUCH of this overlaps with "thyroid" symptoms.....so again, it's not having to CHOOSE here...it's because you are deficent hormonally. OR one hormone is having a field day.

ALL of this is easily corrected. Get that book Lucy. Look in the phone book for your local compounding pharmacy and call them and ask questions. YOU will be AMAZED. Honest!!!!


Hi Lynn

Thank you for all of the information. I love these boards, especially when there are smart people like you on them

I have one question though. You said to call our local compunding pharmacy. Would they be the ones that carry this over the counter progesterone cream? I'm asking because I have one where I live and I'm really interested in trying this out. I suffer terribly around my menstrual cycles. I would love some relief if possible.

Chantel

 
Old 12-03-2004, 06:28 AM   #13
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysundy43
...I have read recently that around 20 percent of women age 50 and over are borderline hypo or hypo!
Some experts claim that 20 percent of the population at large has a thyroid problem (most of them hypothyroid), and that the greater risk is for women over 50, so I bet that the 20 percent you read about is actually even higher than that.

The plot thickens...
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Old 12-03-2004, 06:40 AM   #14
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

I am using Emerita natural progesterone cream which I get on ebay pretty cheap and I noticed it helps with depression and bloating. It's a natural diuretic! Other than the cream, I take 1 to 1-1/2 grains of Armour thyroid. I definitely feel much better since I started this regime and have noticed inch loss more than poundage. I always fluctuate around 5 pounds or so. Anyway, the inch loss tells me I am losing fat, not muscle, which I am very happy about. I do a stationary bike three to four times per week for about 45 minutes.

The Armour Thyroid has definitely gotten my body temperature up! My depression is greatly relieved.

I am 49 years old.

 
Old 12-03-2004, 06:42 AM   #15
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Re: Strong Connection between Perimenopause and Hypo symtoms??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Now, knowing that, we have to ask, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Hehehe good one, made me laugh.

Interesting info Meep, as always. No wonder the hormones are all so intertwined, thyroid receptors on the ovaries, interesting and sure explains A LOT.

 
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