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Lady50 · 12-07-2004, 09:04 AM

Does anyone know if you just take t3 will it make your t4 go up too?

Gopherhead · 12-07-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady50

Does anyone know if you just take t3 will it make your t4 go up too?

Hi Lady. Taking T3 (cytomel) or taking a natural med with T4 and T3 will typically make your T4 go down, not up. Many of us taking natural meds also take some synthetic T4 along with it because of this. The ratio of T4/T3 in Armour is higher than it is in humans. Too much T3 can drive your T4 down, making you feel worse instead of better.

Nat

Lady50 · 12-07-2004, 01:56 PM

Well hi and welcome back!!!

That makes since to me. That was kind of a dumb question for me to ask anyway. Little brainfog today I guess.

Thanks

nimbeth · 12-07-2004, 04:32 PM

So would you suggest adding t4 to armour therapy. For example I am currently on 1 grain Armour, and my FT3 and FT4 have gone done since starting 10 weeks ago (i started on 1/4 grain to begin and increased gradually to 1 grain, which I started today.)

I really dont feel any better (except for the 2nd week on a 1/4 grain I felt much better for about a week) What do you think?

Thanks
Nimbeth
Nimbeth

softcrush · 12-07-2004, 06:48 PM

Lady:

I think we were on to this subject in another thread. Its counterlogical in a way, but there is evidence to back up what Gopher's saying. Overtime, the T3 OUTPACES the T4 and that doesn't feel too good. Whether it suppresses the T4 on to top of that, is probably up for much debate...and the whys and wherefors..etc.

Either way, you deal with it by actually adding in a bit of T4. One can do this by simultanelously letting up a little, on your dose of Armour.

There is a "school of thought" that suggests the synthetics will cause some kind of issue I haven't heard of any.

But, one also needs to to weigh the risk/benefit ratio too.

Staying in doors too much, or drinking that cola drink are bad for you, but people do that anyway. Right?

I hope this helps...wish you luck dear!

~S

Felix73 · 12-08-2004, 01:03 AM

Hi,

This is interesting! I'm on Armour and Thyroxine. My Free t4 level is at the top of the range but I need to get my T3 level up.

Which should I increase?

Felix x

Gopherhead · 12-08-2004, 06:23 AM

Felix, are you taking selenium and vit D? These two are very important when talking about converting T4 to T3. Selenium is well documented and you can find information in the Archive thread. You need to start with about 200mcgs a day and then cut back after a few weeks to 100mcg. You don't want to have more than 200mcgs for extended periods of time as you can have too much. Vit D is something I just learned about myself from a biochemist who runs a compounding pharmacy. He explained to me that the receptors for thyroid hormones are the same as those for progesterone and Vit D (which really isn't a vitamine but a steroid hormone) and being deficient in one (thyroid, vit d or protesterone) will affect the others.

The two, Vit D and Selenium, can help your body convert T4 to T3, and it might be all you need right now. Then again, you might be a bad converter and you might need to cut down on the T4 and add in a little more T3.

Do you have your latest labs?

Felix73 · 12-08-2004, 10:55 AM

Hi Gopher,

Thanks for the info. I'm taking Selenium already but the Vitamin D is something I can add.

My last labs were:

TSH: 0.01
FT3 5.1 (2.6-6)
Ft4 22.4 (10 - 22)

The specialist I am seeing is quite happy with these numbers but as I'm still pretty tired, has increased my Armour by 1/2 grain. He wanted to increase my thyroxine but I was scared I would go hyper. I'm now on 125 mcg thyrox and 21/2 grains of Armour. Enough to fell an elephant but it seems like I need it.

What do you think?

softcrush · 12-08-2004, 03:08 PM

Wow....Nice labs!

Vitamin D comes to us naturally from the sun too. In fact it is the "only" natural way to get it. So...don't forget to get outside and expose some skin!

Since I'm living like Count Dracula right now, I'm gonna have to change my pattern.

Good luck!

Hey...Felix, by the way did you ever get your cortisol checked?

~S

Gopherhead · 12-08-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix73

My last labs were:

TSH: 0.01
FT3 5.1 (2.6-6)
Ft4 22.4 (10 - 22)

Those are some really nice numbers, Felix. I would agree with your specialist based on the labs that this is a good place to be - however your symptoms would suggest otherwise.

Have you had anything else tested? As Soft suggested, how is your cortisol? Do you know how your other hormones (DHEA, progesterone, estrogen) are? If you're FTs are up and you still feel fatigued I'd look to see if something else wasn't an issue (adrenals, low iron, b12).

Felix73 · 12-08-2004, 11:50 PM

Not bad eh? Shame the numbers don't seem to reflect real life! But luckily, I've got a doctor who is barely interested in figures.

I'm still waiting for the cortisol results to come back. Fingers crossed that they'll appear this week.

How you getting on these days? Any improvement? Hope so.

I know what you mean about living like a vampire!! Can't wait for the summer as I missed it all this year due to this thyroid malarky.

Felix x

softcrush · 12-09-2004, 06:01 PM

Felix:

Hmnn.. Were you speaking to me?

Believe it or not, I went to my compounder today. He's the only human I've encountered in since April. He believes the same as I do about SO much. Amazing huh? We've talked about Kirlian photography and how something natural like an Armour pill would give off more light than a "dead" Synthroid pill.

I picked up my fresh bottle of Snythroid and dropped off my 5 mcg Cytomel script to be time-released. It should be done being mixed in 10 days. Can't wait.

Right now, I'm almost a week into my little-sliver-of-Armour test (7milligrams). I've been adding it to my morning regime of two (50mcg's) of Synthroid. I feel worlds better. Its like someone just dug me part way out from under the Empire State Building or something. My face smiles when I do. LOL

I now want to kill all those people who said that 100 percent t4 is the way to go. ARG!!! I've starved myself of it all this time! Well...since September anyway. Some of the brutal muscle aches have lifted...and I can hold a pen in my hand and write a lot easier.

My mental state seems almost normal...I can think!!!!

I've heard myself laugh a couple times. Didn't know where that awful cackle noise was comeing from...Then I realized it was ME.

LOL

I sat out on the back step for 30 minutes to get some sunlight in my body. Did you know that you innerds enjoy sunlight...even if it doesn't shine there! LOL

My migranes have improved...my skin is not looking so covered in acne! Its nice. Just 7 milligrams of Armour. Amazing!

I bought some melatonin from GNC and some Lipoic-Acid...and some Magnesium. I tried the Magnesium...and it kinda didn't feel too good in the tummy. I hope that was just a fluke.

I'm gonna do the Melatonin tonight..and see what happens.

Does anyone know if you shouldn't take it with a trycylic?

Something strange seems to be going on with the cortisol results...so I'm like you FELIX...and am waiting with my fingers crossed. The lab says they've hit a snag that I thought I'd ALREADY straightened out.

Everything should be in by tommorow...

I hope you get what you are looking for too!

And so it goes...

~S

Felix73 · 12-10-2004, 12:50 AM

Hi Soft,

Sorry I was talking to you and I'm so glad you are seeing some improvements with the Armour. It worked great for me - its the difference between night and day as far as I am concerned. It's been fairly up and down since I started but I think that was because I started messing with my dose and got in a pickle!

Try a search as there are loads of sites that check drug interactions for you. Am I allowed to say??? Try the links on the international pharmacy site. Worth a look.

Fingers crossed for the cortisol results. I'm hoping that this will help clear up some of my remaining symptoms - one way or the other.

I'm so happy that you are "getting there". Isn't it great when you start seeing the light at the end of this very dark tunnel.

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the time-release meds. I don't think such a thing exists in the UK.

Felix x

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