Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Hi,
Could you please tell me how long it took you to feel better after starting these meds? I'm doing miserably on my Synthroid and have an appointment with a new endo tomorrow. Hopefully, he will either add Cytomel to my regime or switch me to Armour. I've been out of work for a week and am very close to going out on Disability. I have a vacation coming up (it's a week and a half long), and I'm wondering if there's any possibility that I will be feeling better by the time my vacation is over.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
I'm doing great on 2 grains of Armour, taken in split doses. You really need to start out slowly with Cytomel or Armour, so you body can adjust to the T3.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
The T3 in those products is short-acting. Some people feel the effect immediately, or within about a week.
But as levels fluctuate during the inevitable dose adjustment periods, it's possible to feel really well for a few days or weeks, then crash again. I don't want to discourage you, but getting this right takes patience and time for most people.
Just a word of advice. Ask for Armour right away. Only accept Cytomel if it's the only option he gives you. There are other, less well-understood, hormones in Armour which may play a role in how well it works for more people than the synthetic combinations.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Thanks for your replies, Sillysundy and Midwest.
Midwest, I'll ask for Armour first. Do most people start off with just Armour and then add synthetic T4 later? I've read on this forum that many people take Armour with some form of added T4. I've been taking Synthroid (112 mcg) for so many years, and I'm concerned about my T4 dropping drastically with a low dose of Armour.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Can you please tell me how someone might feel if they just began taking full dose Armour and not taking it slowly and gradually? I switched from Synthroid to Armour and I didn't do it slowly or gradually. I am not really feeling well. I feel heavy and tired.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Did you go from the same dose when you switched? Usually you need to drop down a little when you switch to Armour from straight T4 (synthroid). The T3 in the Armour is much more powerful than T4 so the same dose of Synthroid and Armour can actually be higher in the Armour.
Are you splitting your dose or taking it all at once? If you went from a single dose of synthroid to a similar single dose of Armour then you might very well not feel well.
Nat
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
I was taking 125 of Synthroid and switched to one and a half grains of Armour, about two weeks ago.(one grain pill and a half a grain) My temperature did not rise until I began taking the one and a half grains, however, I did not feel well. My arm will tingle for a a few seconds throughout the day, and I would feel stressed and heavy. I thought I might be taking too much, so for the last few days I began taking just one pill. I started breaking the pill in half and taking the halves 10-12 hours apart. My temperature went down to 97, again, however, I am still not feeling well.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
I take generic synthroid and cytomel and it works well for me. Before, not taking cytomel, I was really still feeling poorly. It didn't take long after starting cytomel that I was feeling good again. I lost 16 lbs, which put me at 100 now, I am small only 5ft 1 inches so this is a ideal weight for me. I am not as tired as much as I used to be, but weekends I really need a nap. I never got to try Armour but hear many successes with it also. Good luck in finding the right meds for you!
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Quote:
Originally Posted by almondjoy
I was taking 125 of Synthroid and switched to one and a half grains of Armour, about two weeks ago.(one grain pill and a half a grain) My temperature did not rise until I began taking the one and a half grains, however, I did not feel well. My arm will tingle for a a few seconds throughout the day, and I would feel stressed and heavy. I thought I might be taking too much, so for the last few days I began taking just one pill. I started breaking the pill in half and taking the halves 10-12 hours apart. My temperature went down to 97, again, however, I am still not feeling well.
Thanks for any ideas and suggestions.
Yeah, going from 125mcg synthroid to 90mg of Armour would be too much, Almondjoy. The T4 in Armour would be equivalent of 57mcg, the T3 at 13.5mcg would be the equivalent of 67 to 121.5 mcg of T4 (T3 is 5 to 9 times stronger than T4). So thats equivalent to 124 to 178mcg of T4.
The 1 grain is more in line with the same dose of Synthroid you were on previously. Breaking it up is a good idea, but you're spreading it out too widely. T3 lasts about 8 hours, but can take 2 hours to peak, so you'd want to take the second dose about 6 hours after the first. It could be that you're taking that second dose too late in the day, which would mess with your sleep.
Are you taking the Armour well away from any food or supplements?
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Yes, I am taking the medication without food and a time distance between food.
Is there an adjustment time for the addtional T-3 to the body, or is there an adjustment time for the T-3 and T-4 to work together. ( What I am asking is why do some people start taking the Armour in small dosage and increase over time?)
If 1 or 1 1/2 grains is too high for me, which is it I am getting too much of? The T-3 or T-4, or both? Or, do I just need an adjustment time and the 1-1 1/2 grains is accurate.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
We start off taking smaller doses because too much too soon places stress on an already stressed body - as you found out Usually a week or two is enough to adjust to the dose, sometimes it's less.
We work our way up with thyroid hormones, whether we're taking natural desiccated thyroid (Armour, Thyroid, Natur-throid), Cytomel (synthetic T3) or Synthroid (or any of the other T4 meds). Armour advises starting with either 30mg or 15 mgs (1/2 or 1/4 grain) for two weeks then increasing every two weeks until you reach your optimal dose. T4 meds are the same, you start off low and work your way up, but more slowly because T4 takes longer to reach optimal levels (weeks for T4 as opposed to days for T3).
If 125mcg of synthroid was right for you then 1 grain is probably a little too low, 1 1/4 might be right. If at 125mcg of synthroid you didn't feel 'great' you might need the 1 1/2 grains, eventually.
It could be that you're getting too much of the T3, the ratio of T4:T3 in Armour is off (pigs have more T3 than humans do). Many of us end up having to drop our Armour down a little and add in some T4. Once you get your dose figured out you can check if your FT4 is OK and then decide from there.
Nat
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
OK...that's what I was thinking....I maybe be getting a bit too much T-3, too quickly. TSH tests say I was ok at 125 mcg of Synthroid but I have so many symptoms of low thryroid. Another doctor, different from the first, prescribed the Armour. She said take 1 grain. My symptoms continue, so I tried taking the 1 1/2 grains because I noticed the Armour reccomendation chart suggests 1 1/2 grains is place of 125 mcg of Synthroid. I have been experimenting with this new medication for about 2 weeks now.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Quote:
Originally Posted by almondjoy
TSH tests say I was ok at 125 mcg of Synthroid but I have so many symptoms of low thryroid. Another doctor, different from the first, prescribed the Armour.
Based on what your first doctor said to you, I'd stay with the new doctor. TSH has no bearing on your dose once you start meds - it's meaningless. You had the symptoms of low thyroid because your thyroid hormones were probably low (TSH is not a thyroid hormone). The new doc, who prescribed the Armour, probably has a better handle on thyroid.
Have you had your thyroid hormones tested lately? Your FT4 and FT3? These are what you use to determine your dose. You want those FTs in the upper 3rd of the lab ranges, until you get them to move up you wont feel better, regardless of what your TSH is (again, TSH = meaningless!)
Nat
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
I have taken thyroid medication since I was 16 and now I am in my 40s. I took 1 grain of Euthroid, daily, for years and years. Then a doctor changed my medication to Synthroid.The dosage was always .125 mcg. I took it for about 20 years. The last time I had my lab work done, the doctor( I moved to another state) only did a TSH test and said my TSH level was fine and to keep taking the Synthroid, even though my hypo symptoms were increasing and becoming worse.(this doctor was young and very narrow minded) Then I went to another doctor and told her this story, and she looked at the lab results. She said to take 1 grain of Armour. She didn't tell me how, or to take it gradually. She just said take it.
Thankyou for reading this long story and thanks for any ideas and help.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
It's really sad how uneducated most doctors are about thyroid. If it weren't for the information and the helpful people here I'd probably have gone on thinking there really was nothing physically wrong with me - at the very least I woulnd't have had the strength of conviction to stick out the battle as long as it took to find help.
I've never heard of someone being on the same dose for that many years; usually adjustments are needed. I hope you get this figured out, almondjoy, and you start feeling better.
Hugs
Nat
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
I think you have to keep positive and keep trying until you find your perfect balance point of thyroid meds. Everyone is different. That is evident by reading these boards.
I've been doing this for years and have a very cooperative endo. He is very willing to test me and give me what I want. That's probably as good as it gets for a Doctor.
I've been tested twice in the last 6 weeks. First time I was on 2.75-3 grains of armour. And I tested very high on t3, out of normal range. It confirmed what I felt-- that t3 is powerful stuff and can mess you up if you take too much. It's like it turned my cells on high. Too much sensitivity. Messed up my digestion--which was a new one for me. Not good. And it didn't take weight off me, it made me heavier by making me retain water. Just made me feel weird.
Then I went to 100mcg of levoxyl and 1 grain of armour. After four weeks I tested -- two days ago-- and interestingly I tested a little low. TSH was 5.68, Free t4 1.32 and free t3 2.91. I went in and got tested because something wasn't quite right. It was better than the armour, but the initial perfect balance I felt had worn off and my body started hurting again and I couldn't sleep.
So you would think I'd go a little higher on the meds to correct it, right? Nope. The night after I tested, I cut the armour in half and hit the great balance point again. I did it because I knew I was either a little high or a little low and both have very similar symptoms but the shallow sleep was the key. Often when I'm high, my sleep is just a little too shallow. It wasn't an easy call because sometimes when I'm heading toward hypo sleep is fitful too. Anyway, I guessed right. I slept great and woke up in a balanced state. The body felt great. I didn't have the test results and went the other way and I was right.
My point is that here I am within normal ranges on the free ts and tsh showing I need a little more more but it wasn't true. If I had taken more it would have gotten worse. I guessed right. Now, I know that 100mcg of synthetic and one grain is my upper end 100mcg of synthetic and 1/2 grain my lower end.
My point to you is this is how much work and how tricky this stuff is to get just right-- in my opinion. But, you should be able to get pretty close to what a normal body does for a person-- if you keep on trying.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellajoon
I take generic synthroid and cytomel and it works well for me. Before, not taking cytomel, I was really still feeling poorly. It didn't take long after starting cytomel that I was feeling good again. I lost 16 lbs, which put me at 100 now, I am small only 5ft 1 inches so this is a ideal weight for me. I am not as tired as much as I used to be, but weekends I really need a nap. I never got to try Armour but hear many successes with it also. Good luck in finding the right meds for you!
Hi Bellajoon,
May I ask what dosage of Cytomel you take? Also, do you split your dose or take it all at once?
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Chiming in:
I just started 10 milligrams of Armour, and 5 mcg of Time-released Cytomel four days ago. They are added to my 100mcg Synthroid.
The doc doesn't know about the Armour. I wish I had not given the Armour up back in September and gone along with straight T4. That was a big mistake. Back then..I was able to go out for a walk at least...and I hadn't aged a million years.
Since then...I've been aging rapidly, crippled...and psychotic in bed.
With the additions.... I'm still draggy...but more clear...not as tearful...not as much pain. Still very blue...though...but I see a little spark.
Re: Question for people who are doing well on Armour and Cytomel
Softcrush,
I can relate to those symptoms. Sorry you're feeling so awful.
You're taking 3 different thyroid meds (Armour, Cytomel, and Synthroid)? Wow, that sounds like a lot -- but hey, if it's helping you, that's what counts.
I didn't know that Cytomel comes in a time-released form. That's good to know.
Usually a week or two is enough to adjust to the dose, sometimes it's less. 
