Anyone out there have any experience with porcine thyroid pills bought over the internet? I don't know where to find any valid information regarding Nutri+Meds whole desiccated glandular concentrate - Porcine thyroid medication. Any and all info. would be appreciated.
Thanks, but I can't seem to access it. I don't know if I am doing it properly or not, but I tried a few different approaches. If it's not too much trouble - could you walk me through it? If it is too lengthy then don't worry about it.
The Board format doesn't allow clickable links, so you'll have to copy and paste the URL into your browser address window.
The thread is dated 9/30/04, and this is one response to the original poster's question regarding a thyroid extract she was given by her herbologist. She was told the preparation is exactly like Armour, but this may have been untrue, since the active hormones must be removed from any such product distributed in the US or Canada. Here's more of what one very knowledgable member, Meep, has to say about it:
Originally Posted by Meep
Any thyroid preparation that contains measurable amounts of T3 or T4 cannot be sold without a prescription. What that means is that unless he has to write you a prescription for it, it has T3 and T4 removed from it, and is NOT the same thing as Armour. The fact that it contains not measurable T3 or T4 means that it will not likely be a problem to take it with your Synthroid
Will it help you? That remains to be seen, because it may still contain traces of other thyroid bits that might help you feel better. On the other hand, it may not do a thing for you.
Would I buy it? Probably not. If you want Armour or its equivalent, find a doctor that will prescribe them to you. The real thing is very likely much less expensive than what the herbologist is trying to sell you.
I'm not sure that we are talking about the same thing though. The bottle says WHOLE DESICCATED THYROID. From what I have read, the way around not needing a script is that it is sold as a supplement. Also, from what I know the T3 and T4 in Armour or any "natural" thyroid hormones is not measurable. That is why (also, from what I have heard) Doctors are so reluctant to prescribe it - because you cannot be sure of how much T3 or T4 you are receiving from pill to pill. I don't know- maybe I'm grabbing at straws?! Just another desperate attempt to get regulated! Thanks for the help though.
You don't say whether you were able to read the entire thread, so here is part of the original question...
Originally Posted by foxtrot
The bottle doesn't say armour it says Raw Thyroid Grandular. Is this the same thing as armour? ... Each capsule contains Raw thyroid tissue....130mg (1 grain per 65mg of pure thyroid concentrate). Does this mean that 1 capsule if 2 grains?
I don't know either, if this is the same product you're asking about, but it sounds very similar.
The amount of thyroid hormone in an Armour tablet is very measurable. Each 1 grain (60 mg) tablet contains 38 mcgs T4 and 9 mcgs T3. This amount is so impeccably titered and standard from batch to batch that Armour has never been recalled by the FDA for potency problems, but synthetic T4 meds are regularly recalled for that reason. Doctors always spout that tired old rhetoric about Armour being "unstable" because there is more money in prescribing $ynthroid, or because they're too lazy to learn anything beyond what they were taught in med school.
All that said, I understand completely the frustration of being unable to find a doctor who will work with you to restore your health... So I also understand how you'd be tempted to give this product a try. I trust Meep's advice far more than I did some of my doctors... If you read much of it by searching the archives, you'd see why I do... So if he says that the active hormones have been removed from any over the counter raw thyroid product, I believe him.
That's not to say the product would not do you good, because it might... but it might not. Even if it does contain the active hormones [and that's a big 'if'], I wouldn't count on it being as accurately titered as Armour, and that could be dangerous.
I don't remember hearing your story... Are you in treatment now, but not satisfied?
Or, are you still trying to get diagnosed and want to help yourself in the meantime? Do you live in a place where Armour is never prescribed.
If you've already told your story in another thread, forgive me for asking you to repeat yourself.
I don't mind. I had my thyroid removed through 2 seperate surgeries - the last one being 7 years ago. Since then I have battled the usualy hypo symptoms from weight gain, water retention, lethargy, hair loss etc. The most disturbing battle has been with depression. I have 3 small children, I am recently divorced,(the divorce actually gave me a jolt of joy!) going to school and working. Some days it is all I can do just to get myself up and going in the a.m. My TSH levels have continuously come back as either "normal" or "slightly hyper". I never had any other tests done. My dosage has gradually been decreased from .175 levoxyl ( where I actually felt somewhat normal) to .150 and finally to .137. Throughout all of this I have continued to tell my doctors that I don't fell normal or hyper - in fact I feel hypo! They refer to the TSH and tell me that is not the case. Finally after I cried when the Doctor told me that she wanted to decrease my levoxyl even more - she agreed to do some additional tests. Those being of course the free T3 and free T4. Not surprisingly my free T3 came back low. I was started on .25mcg Cytomel and .l37 levoxyl and had my labs done again 6 weeks later. I still felt hypo. but the depression had started to subside and the brain fog felt more "bearable". My labs came back:
Free T3 up from 199 to 232 (normal range 230-619)
Free T4 down from .73 to .56 (normal range 0.7-1.9)
TSH down from 0.09 to 0.02 (normal 0.5 - 6.)
As you can see my T3 is in the very low end of normal. As far as my own body goes I think that I would feel alot better if it were at least in the mid-range. She wasn't comfortable with the very low TSH levels and really didn't want to keep me on Cytomel long term. I asked about Armour and she told me it was "unstable". So now I have an appointment on April 19th at Tuft's University Medical Center with the Cheif Endocrinologist (Boston). I'm hoping to have an opportunity to take a more active role in my treatment. Until then I was so afraid of plummeting emotionally yet again that I wanted to find something to maintain the levels that I have now. They aren't great, but they are more bearable than the alternative.
No, not sorry at all. We all need to be heard and understood, and it makes me furious that the profession we're supposed to trust won't even try, making boards like this one necessary. I've been coming to this board for over 2 years now, and I hear the same story several times a week! Why the he** don't they understand that feeling physically terrible would depress anybody!!?
All I can say to boost your spirits is that I know there are MDs out there who do understand this illness, but it can be such a tremendous burden for ill people to find them. Just don't give up! I really hope that the folks at Tufts will know what to do for you... I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Meantime, get a copy of Dr. Stephen Langer's book, Solved: The Riddle of Illness, which gives hope to people with clueless doctors; and perhaps Dr. Ridha Arem's The Thyroid Solution, which deals with the connection between the "mental" aspects of thyroid disease, like brain fog and depression.
Best of luck to you. I'll be watching for updates as you get them.
Thanks so much! I came to these boards not knowing what to expect. I felt like the "new girl in school". I have received so much positive reinforcement and validation. I feel like this has been a very positive step towards helping to balance my physical and emotional wellbeing.
I set up an appointment to see a Boston (chief thyroid) Doc and found him to be EVEN more clueless than the typical endo. He is a teaching doc...so it verified for me where all the other Endos get their bad training from. He teaches at Harvard...and has the biggest wall covered in plaques that you have ever seen. He knew of the New England Journal study indicating the efficacy of T3, but dismissed it since "it hasn't been verified by any other study."
He also told me chasing lab values is like chasing a mirage...and there was no use in adjusting the medication. He said a lot of patients think that they'll get better with certain lab values, but it simply isn't true. When I explained I felt MUCH better with Armour, which generated more balanced lab values....he said that there is no medical reason why that would be the case. So...you see I want you to realize...going to big hospital in a big City...doesn't mean you'll get a great mind to talk to.
Since I left that appoitment...I felt much better. I made up my mind right there an then..that eliminating Endos altogether from my thryoid med management was going to me my new plan. Now..I go to a Naturepath. He's not the most knowlegable thryoid guy in the world...but he's not about to fight me or interfere with my game-plan. He "gets" what I'm talking about I think. That in the end, has been my only way to even partial wellness. He is ready to take any blood test I desire and prescribe what I want.
Armour...can pull you back to happiness. I'm no longer in the clinches of psychotic depression...intead I'm just rather ****** off. For me that is a good thing. A much healthier outlook! Its been four months since I've laid eyes on an Endo...and that is a saving grace for me right now. I can drive the car without being dizzy and I my energy is returning finally.
Two authors have written great books on the subject of returning to metabolic healthiness. Drs. Barry Durrant-Peatfield and John Lowe. I have the Ridah Arem...book and found it to be a sympathetic understanding of patients...but not helpful in terms of understand how to manage the meds. That is really what I had been looking for. By the time I had a plan together...the books really confirmed that I was on the right track. That in the end, is what a lot of need since we can't find a good partner in an Endo.
Just...keep your chin up. Don't give up if the guy turns out to be a dud. Ask him lots of questions to see what his level of sophistication he has. Then...decide from there. Remember, its not the end of the world if he's not up to snuff. There are alternatives...and you can be much better than you are now.
WOW!! Not what I was hoping to hear! Knowledge is power though-so with what you have told me I am no longer putting all of my eggs in the "Tufts basket". I am going to start searching tomorrow for a reliable Naturepath and make an appointment with him/her as well. I will go with whichever one I feel more confident and comfortable with. It is ironic that the only time my doses have ever felt somewhat adequate was when I was being treated by my osteopath. My sister is a Reike Master and will most likely be able to point me in the right direction as far as Naturepaths go. Thanks alot for your input. I think that I had my hopes up way too high for this appointment. I'll be alot less disappointed now if things don't go as I had hoped they would. I'm not looking for much, just to feel normal again and be in control of my own physical and emotional ups and downs.(at least as much as any normal person)