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Old 03-18-2006, 09:07 PM   #1
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Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Ok, I just read this from a book....

"Doctors perform thyroid function tests on blood samples to determine whether the gland is functioning normally, but they base the diagnosis of Hashimoto's thyroiditis on the symptoms, a physical examination, and whether the person has antibodies that attack the gland (antithyroid antibodies), which can easily be measured in a blood test."

Why is it then that I had thyroid tests, I have SOOOO many spmtoms, I had physical exam, inflamed thyroid (from U/S) and I have antibodies! NO BASE for a diagnosis???? Ughhhhhhh

 
Old 03-19-2006, 05:58 AM   #2
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hi, I just wanted to ask (I forgot if you posted it) what doctor you are seeing. My family doc put me on a hundred different pills for allergies, sinuses, headaches; told me to get a lot of rest for the body aches, and was about to put me on an anxiety pill. All this stuff when I had every symptom known to man of a thyroid disease. As soon as I saw an Endo, she knew exactly what it was, ran more tests, and told me I have Graves Disease. My suggestion to you is to keep going to Endos until you are satisfied. From many posts I've read here, even Endos can be quacks. I gave up for a long time (almost 4 years) before I decided to be in control and demand answers. These docs are getting paid for their services. Make them perform!

Take care, and I hope you find the answers you need
Tuesday

 
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Old 03-19-2006, 08:24 AM   #3
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

hi....i was refered to an endo after 2 years of complaining to my family Dr who like you, said stress, anxiety, rest, blahhh blahh!

My labs are normal so "they" think i;m normal.

finally my test showed antibodies N now i am going thru testing w/ an endo but even she seems to think we'll jus wait around and keep sampling the blood being that all the other tests are in "normal range".

i'm just learning and i am determined not to live with my hair falling out, heart palps, foggy brain, no concentration, diareah, exaughtion, hot flashes, panic attacks, pain behind my eyes, loss of weight (20lbs in a year).......constant HUNGER, nervousness, anxiety, adrenaline rushes, hand shakiness and hmmm.....I can go on!

how did you end up at an ndo? where do you live if you dont mind? I'm in N.Y.
Did your results come up possitive right away? was it a struggle for you to get a diagnosis?

Let me know as I would be intersted in hearing your story.

God Bless!
Rachel

 
Old 03-19-2006, 09:16 AM   #4
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Rachel...
I haven't been reading all your posts, because your issues seem to be hyper-related, and it isn't my best subject. But your problem piqued my curiosity, so I scanned some of your older posts.

You have antibodies, yes. But it appears you haven't had a thyroid-stimulating immunoglobulin test - TSI for short. TSI antibodies are the ones associated with Graves' disease. You have all the hallmark symptoms of Graves', not Hashi's.

Hashi's is associated with TPO and Tg antibodies; Graves' is indicated by TSI antibodies, sometimes in conjunction with TPO and/or Tg antibodies in smaller titers.

Make sure the endo runs a TSI test, or you may still be "confused" a year from now.

 
Old 03-19-2006, 12:42 PM   #5
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hi Rachel,
My story spans many many years (now that I know what I had that whole time), but I'll try to summarize for you. I've had every symptom known to man with thyroid problems since I was in my 20's. Since I hit the 30's, they have gotten really bad. As I stated before, all the docs thought I was crazy. Anyway, to answer your question, I ended up at the endo after I was in the ER 3 times this year since January. Heartrate in the 160s, confusion, shaking, spasms, thought I was dying...in short, they thought I was having a really bad anxiety attack. However, when they gave me a bunch of medicine, it didn't stop. They were puzzled. They ran a bunch of blood work, and happened to do a TSH test. It came back at .02 (.4 - 5 is norm). The ER doc called it Superventrical Tachycardia, put me on heart medicine, and sent me to my family doc. He also said that I had something wrong with my thyroid. At the family doc, they ran more tests (blood, scan, ultrasound)and said I was hyperthyroid and put me on Tapazole (along with the heart med). My Gyn said my doc was crazy because my T3 and T4 levels were in the normal range and I couldn't have anything wrong with my thyroid. I'm glad I didn't listen. My family doc gave me a referral to the endo, who is in Mansfield, Ohio. I live in Ashland, Ohio. They got me in surprisingly fast (they have a 4 month waiting list) - in 2 weeks. The endo ran more tests, including the TSI antibody test. My TSH came in even lower than before, and I was positive for the TSI antibodies. It confirmed that I had Graves Disease. So, even though my family doc was kinda wrong, she was right too - if that makes any sense. I'm very lucky to have found these docs. At least they are doing something about it now. NONE of the doctors I have dealt with in the past almost 4 years have even tested my thyroid. So that's kind of my story. Hope it helps! Tuesday

 
Old 03-19-2006, 04:27 PM   #6
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Confused.....

The book may be using physical exam to blanket "exam and labs" in together. I can tell you what I was told about diagnosing autoimmune diseases.

A diagnoses is made when the patient has chemical imbalances in the body (abnormal labs), symptomatic, elevated presence of antibodies (not necessarily over the "normal" ab range). With the presence of at least two of the conditions listed above a diagnoses can be made.

Of course, your doctor would have to be educated on autoimmune disorders. Some drs are just not the "brightest crayon in the box" when it comes to autoimmune disorders. Sorry can't help you there! LOL! You might try showing some verifyable research (published articles, stuff from medical websites) to your dr. Anything that will back up what you've learned. A good dr will be willing to at least look at what you bring in.

Are you the one that has a drs appt next week? And you're going to get a copy of you last labs with ab tests right? Hopefully I haven't gotten you confused with someone else.

Best wishes,
Hyperkim

 
Old 03-19-2006, 07:15 PM   #7
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hi Tuesday, wat a pretty name

Thx for sharing and might I say how fortunate you are to have found or have had 2 Dr's who caught this, finally.
I wish for you happier days now that you've come to find out what was the cause of your problems.....

I'm sure we'll speak soon again, Till then, god Bless!
Rachel

 
Old 03-19-2006, 07:20 PM   #8
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Thx HyperKim,

Yes i am the one w/ the appmt next week. I hope I get some answers.

You've been helping me along the way.....can I ask you & I have posted this on a seperate post......What should I say to the endo if she tells me she wants to just wait and keep redoing the tests till something other than the antibody one shows possitive?

Thx hyper.
Rachel

 
Old 03-19-2006, 07:28 PM   #9
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hi Midwest,

Thx for taking the time to view thru my posts....I cant say how helpful this site is.

Im not sure if this helps but the origional tests that my Dr ran before refering me to the endo were, thyroxine Free, TSH, Microsomal antibodies, and Thyroglobulin antibody...

Now I have the bill, NOT the results AND remember this is the tests he FINALLY ran as a last shot of "Hmm, lets jus try one more thing".

After running this he called me 2 weeks later and told me to see an endo who has been doing further tests.

This coming week I will get all the results.

as far as what antibodies were possitive, i dont know but he did say the were possitive for thyroid inflamation. He didnt really want to go further into it but said whenever i get the time, see an endo but didnt think much of it.

Knowing this (the tests he ran) does it help anything here?
Love, Rachel

 
Old 03-19-2006, 08:37 PM   #10
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

The microsomal AB test is older than the TPO test, but that's probably OK as a substitute. The two antibodies tests you had, microsomal and thyroglobulin (Tg) are primarily used to diagnose Hashimoto's thyroiditis, which causes hypothyroidism.

You have mainly hyperthyroid symptoms, so I can't stress it enough.... Insist on a TSI test. It is diagnostically conclusive of the primary cause of hyperT due to Graves' disease.
In addition to that, you want TSH, free T4 (aka 'thyroxine Free'), and free T3. Free T3 is just as important to measure as free T4, but lots of MDs don't know it. Insist on that as strongly as TSI antibodies.

 
Old 03-19-2006, 11:49 PM   #11
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by confused725
Hi Midwest,

Thx for taking the time to view thru my posts....I cant say how helpful this site is.

Im not sure if this helps but the origional tests that my Dr ran before refering me to the endo were, thyroxine Free, TSH, Microsomal antibodies, and Thyroglobulin antibody...

Now I have the bill, NOT the results AND remember this is the tests he FINALLY ran as a last shot of "Hmm, lets jus try one more thing".

After running this he called me 2 weeks later and told me to see an endo who has been doing further tests.

This coming week I will get all the results.

as far as what antibodies were possitive, i dont know but he did say the were possitive for thyroid inflamation. He didnt really want to go further into it but said whenever i get the time, see an endo but didnt think much of it.

Knowing this (the tests he ran) does it help anything here?
Love, Rachel
You tell the guy you want your test results right now...and you don't mean tomorrow. I'm really tired of the idiot doctors and endos that couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag. None of us should have to get on here to find out what to do. I would suggest you go to a D.O. they are more open...and more educated in how the body works than a regular m.d... They Must test both T4 and T3. MUST MUST. THey still think that is the t4 is ok that the T3 will be also. It is supposed to change to T3.. As a biochemist assured me that T3 doesn't always know this because it can't read (someone like some doctors).. On top of everything else....there is absolutely no earthly reason why you cannot treat symptoms of thyroid disorder...even when your ranges fall within the "so called normal range" it will not hurt you. You doctor must moniter you, but as I last understood it, that is what they are over paid for. Doctors will tell you once you start thyroid mediciine , you will be on it forever... that is not true either. Another news flash for doctors,,, the upper range of TSH is now 3.02 form the American Association of Clinical Endocronologists. HOWEVER that does not mean that that is still too high for you..(if you're hyperthyroid)... If you're hypothyroid, I would prefer Armour unstead of synthoid..first armour is natural.. synthroid is synthetic... armour is t4 and t3...synthroid is only T4.. Most doctors won't consider armour..just look it up yourselves and see the differences. Armour has been around longer than most doctors have been practicing. Hope this helps a little. Oh, by the way...this is all from personal expierence with my mother... after we found a doctor that would treat her symptoms and not her numbers...the other third of her eyebrows, grew back, she has to shave her legs again (that is not a good thing by her! lol)..her hair is not as thin. ,and her body temperature is closer to normal. amoung many other things. (look up symptoms of high/low thyroid)

 
Old 03-20-2006, 04:46 AM   #12
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Confused....You asked me what to ask/say to the dr at your appt this week? I think the last two posts covered it pretty well. Re-read them if you have to.

One thing I don't think was said specifically was that T4 converts to T3 in the body. The body mostly uses converted T3. You can have plenty of T4 production and still have a problem converting it to T3. That is another reason to have BOTH levels checked.

IN a nutshell....You need the TSH, Free T4, Free T3 tested any time your thyroid levels are checked. At this next appt I would request the TSI test. That way you know where all the major anti-thyroid antibodies are at this point. This will give you a clearer picture of what may be effecting your thyroid and your health.

If your dr gives you any grief on ordering any test you request here are a couple of suggestions....1) Remind him/her that it is YOU and/or YOUR insurance company that will be paying for it not the dr. 2) If they just won't give in, request them to sign a note saying they refused a requested test. From what I hear, this will usually stop them in thier tracks.

Remember, at the end of the day the dr will go home to his/her family....You will go home to yours WITH your symptoms to live with. Its your body. Doctors are providing a service. If your mechanic serviced your car and did it wrong...Would you keep going back to him? If your dr won't help or listen to you then find another one. And another and another and another until you find a dr that can get it right for you.
__________________
Hyperthyroidism 11/05
Confirmed Graves Dx 1/06
Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

 
Old 03-20-2006, 06:58 AM   #13
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hi Midwest,
Once againTY.
I will MOST CERTAINLY Demand the tests you told me, n fact i wrote them down already. I was reading an article on this board (I believe by Treefrog) about the Hmos and how they work w/ the Dr's by giving bonuses so the Docs dont run off too many tests. Pretty interesting especially with thyroid sufferers.

Ok now, I jus need to ask you this. you mention that the tests they ran on me were most likely to diagnose Hashimotos SO if something came back possitive (thats why the dr called me & refered me to the endo) based on those tests, wouldnt that mean I have the antibodies to hashi??

Oh Midwest, I feel like i just keep repeating myself. forgive me if I am, I just dont want you to have to scroll back to other posts to recall things, so even tho my brain is in a fog, I'm actually repeating myself on purpose.

Look foward to all your help.
TY So Much!
Rachel

 
Old 03-20-2006, 07:56 AM   #14
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Hiya Finres,

As I thank everyone for there replies, let me TY as well.

As far as hair goes, LOl.....I should only be so lucky to lose whats on my legs (instead of my head)

You say i should see a DO? Excuse my ignorance but embarrased as I am, I'll ask, what is that?

I'm so new to this but have learned so much from all of you on this board in such a short time but I am not aware of what the t3 chemically does or t4 so I just wrote dwn what everyone here told me to MAKE sure gets tested and I will demand it.
If I cant get her or my primary to test those, then I'll move on, altho it may be difficult because I have an HMO insurance by the state and need referals for any new specialists.

Thx so much for helping me out!
Bless you all!
Rachel

 
Old 03-20-2006, 09:02 AM   #15
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Re: Drs base diagnosis on....BUT.........

Rachel,

DO stands for Doctor of Osteopath. They are just like an md but believe in the power of the body to heal itself if given the oppurtunity. I have read that a DO or a holistic md are best at treating thyroid disorders.

T4 "converts" to T3 in the body. The converted T3 is the thyroid hormone that is mostly used by the body. Also, some people do not convert T4 properly. That is why it is important to test both hormones at the same time.

If your dr won't order the tests you request, you can order labs yourself online at HealthchecksUSA. I think the TSH, FT4, and FT3 cost about $75 plus a draw fee. Then just take those to your dr.

Hope that helps
__________________
Hyperthyroidism 11/05
Confirmed Graves Dx 1/06
Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

Last edited by hyperkim; 03-20-2006 at 09:03 AM.

 
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