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Old 04-25-2006, 12:10 PM   #1
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How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

I just got back my TSH at .86 & I'm wondering how can I possibly have Hashimotos (Autoimmune thyroiditis) with a TSH so low?

If my thyroid is being attacked, umm, then I would be going hypo......shouldnt that mean that my TSH should be rising to the top?

I'm not having any horrible hyper sypmtoms (I pray they dont come back)

Meanwhile my
T4Total 8.6 (4.5-12)
T3Uptake 32.9 (22-35)
T4 Free Calculated 2.83 (1.53-3.85)

Is it me? I would expect with my diagnosis to have a higher TSH & a lower t4, t3?
Whats going on here? Could they have mistaken me .....
Last check,
TPO 183 (<10-35)
Tg 74.1 (<40)
TSI 104 (125%)

Whats your oppinions?
THX!
Rachel

Ahh, PS:

My laST labs were,
3/2/06

TSH w/ Free T4 RFX 1.36 (.40-5.50)
T4 Total 10.5 (4.5-12.0)
T3 Uptake 32.0 (27.8-40.7)
T4 Free Calculated 3.36 (1.53-3.85)
T3 Total 155 (60-81)
If this helps.
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:32 PM   #2
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Have you been taking any meds between these labs?

You shouldn't be treating by TSH levels. Treatment should be based on where your T4 and T3 are. So I wouldn't pay much attention to the TSH.

All your levels seem to have come down a bit. Is it possible you "were" in a hashi's flare-up? And now you have settled down. Maybe a hashi's veteran will come around soon.
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Hyperthyroidism 11/05
Confirmed Graves Dx 1/06
Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

Last edited by hyperkim; 04-25-2006 at 01:35 PM.

 
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:27 PM   #3
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Just the presence of TPO Abs is enough to diagnose Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. That may not be medically exactly correct, because Hashimoto's is really the effect of the Abs, not the Abs themselves. But, close enough for our purposes.

But the TPO Antibodies killing off your gland is a relatively slow process, and can take several years, or can happen much faster. Especially in the beginning stages, your thyroid gland can have periods where it can keep up. As long as your FT3 is at a decent level, your TSH should echo that. But you can also have periods where your thyroid gland is not keeping up, your FT3 drops, and thus, your TSH rises. You may be in this early stage.

In the middle stages, there is no mistaking that your thyroid gland cannot keep up, symptoms are more prevalent, because FT3 is more consistently low. You should see a corresponding rise in TSH. However, after each elevated attack of the TPO Antibodies, your thyroid gland often seeps excess thyroid hormone. This seeping equates to a temporary rise in FT3, and drop in TSH. This could also be where you are at. After this seeping, your gland is then left more damaged than before, and less able to keep up - dropping FT3 and causing a rise in TSH.

In the end stage, the gland the TPO Antibodies have finished killing off the gland, and there should be little fluctuation, at least from the gland itself.

Your TPO Abs level is significant, and certainly high enough to kill off your gland, but it isn't the highest I've seen. So you do have Hashimoto's, and you will be hypothyroid. You may not yet be hypothyroid, or you may be, but just having a bit of a spike, making your blood work appear more normal.

Unfortunately, you also have TG Abs, which can cause fluctuation in free levels, and to my knowledge, will have for the rest of your life.

The TSI Antibodies are relative to the hyper side of things (Grave's), and I'm not knowledgeable on that to know if 104 is significant. Note that your TT3 is elevated, so it would be good to hear from someone on the Grave's side on this. Again, it could be evidence of Grave's, or it could just be a temporary spike from the Hashimoto's damage.
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Old 04-26-2006, 05:22 AM   #4
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

I have graves and I believe in previous threads the graves side of Confused's issues has already been covered. I think she falls in with having BOTH Graves and Hashi's.

My own opinion is that she is in a tug of war between the TPO/Tg and the TSI antibodies. Which could leave a person with "normal" labs. I have no experience, as of yet, on what the TPO/Tg antibodies actually do. What Divermon says makes sense though and is along the lines of what I have read in the past.

It will depend on which ab's are in the dominant postition at to what will actually be going on with thyroid levels. So monitoring the ab's becomes more important for those with both Graves and Hashi's than for those that have only of of them. I think MyBowTie has the same issues.
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Hyperthyroidism 11/05
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:15 AM   #5
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Hi Rachel, just wanted to give you my support ... I wish I could help you out more but I don't have the expertise yet in the meds and blood work area. But, as HyperKim said, you're in a "tug of war" (good phrase HyperKim) with all this and from what I've read from previous posts, it does sound like it ... hope it all works out for you, bye for now, Marty

 
Old 04-26-2006, 01:28 PM   #6
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Hyperkim, why do you think Rachel has Grave's along with Hashi's when her TSI testing is "in range". I've read all the other posts on it but still don't understand. I'm following with interest because I feel I may also be dealing with hashitoxicosis but my TSI antibodies were considered normal at 88% (range: <125% of baseline).

I spend just as much time hyper as I do hypo (if not more; I actually started out hyper) but my labs don't reflect either instance; they're always "perfect" (meaning a TSH between 1 and 2).

Hope you don't mind me asking questions in your thread Rachel ...I'm feeling pretty confused though (not uncommon in the last couple of years ).

Divermom, why would a person still have Tg antibodies if their thyroid is not producing hormone anymore? Won't the antibodies stop being produced once the gland is nothing but scar tissue?

You know, I thought I had a clear understanding of things but I'm starting to feel like I don't have a handle on anything .

If someone wants to reply to me in a new thread I'd appreciate it (I don't want to hijack your thread !!)

Kelly

 
Old 04-26-2006, 02:23 PM   #7
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Kelly, this is going to be a quickie note as I am at work.....

On Rachel....because she has significant levels of TSI (for graves), and TPO and Tg (both for hashi's). MyBowTie has seconded my opinion at one time. He has the same problem.

The antibodies are a part of our immune system. They are not actually produced by the thyroid. The effect the thyroid. That is my understanding of it anyway. I could be wrong. I don't know what makes them not produce anymore.

On the TSI, you might try to do a search on my previous posts. I think you can click on my name (above left) and search that way.

In short, I have been told I have graves because I presented with hyperT labs and symptoms, I have skin issues including on my shins, and I have mild eye symptoms. I also have the TSI ab - 97 (range <125). This TSI was taken approx three months after my labs that showed hyper. At the time of this TSI my thyroid labs showed a slight decrease in levels. I have been told that the TSI "could" have been higher at the time of the higher thyroid labs. Then come down with the thyroid levels.

Plus those with full blown Graves are not considered to be in remission until their TSI is below 20 (or it may be 2 can't remember right now).

Hope that helps some
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Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
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Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

 
Old 04-26-2006, 10:14 PM   #8
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

That's what I had read...that ppl with Grave's are expected to have Ab <2 so why are mine "normal" at 88% and Rachel's at 104%.

I also have TPO and Tg antibodies; yet I have hyper AND hypo symptoms in the presence of normal labs.

It does sound like MyBowTie, Rachel and I may be dealing with the same thing (hashitoxicosis); yet what on earth does a person do about it? I know...that's the million dollar question .

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I'll look up your post! And thanks Rachel for letting me use your thread .

Kelly

 
Old 04-27-2006, 05:11 AM   #9
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Kelly you gave me a thought....OH NO!!!! Anyway....

I have mostly hypo symptoms with few hyper symptoms. Though I am currently fighting to stay away from hyper lab levels. I wonder if even the small presence of TPO and Tg ab's that I have are the reason for that? Hmmmm...

More to think about.
__________________
Hyperthyroidism 11/05
Confirmed Graves Dx 1/06
Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

 
Old 04-27-2006, 12:36 PM   #10
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Hi guys, Sorry i didnt reply sooner. I've been so busy with this other dilema in my life but i read all the posts and yes, it does certainly look like hashitoxicosis to me as well. I'm thinking, only time will tell. I'm trying to remember bowties story (I know he has 3 ab's as well) but cant figure out if it makes the difference of having inflamation of the thyroid? Hmmm? Why has his thyroid not been burnt by the tpo ab's? I dont really recall at this moment but all i can do is hope that SOONER or later my thyroid will burn itself out.

Kelly, you crack me up! LOL.......Please dont apologize for taking over my thread. I cant tell you how funny that is. You've actually enlightened this post by further investigating, while I was just sitting back (filing my nails)

Hi hyper......no i'm not taken any meds (which is fine w/ me), most of my hyper symptoms are gone and as long as they're not bothering me, I feel better. Yes tired and all but I can cope.
What is a hashi's flareup? hmmm.....If I do have hashitoxicosis, do you think my labs will always "even out"? Do you think the more dominent ab will eventually take over, Finally allwing me to have a pROPER diagnosis? (Hashis or graves) or do you think i'll be in a tug of war forever?

Somanyfeelings, Thx for your support! Cant tell you what it means!

Divermom, yes, my Dr explained to me just as you have. Funny though at the time the blood was drawn, I was over the hyper symptoms so I really expected to see a little higher TSH & lower t3 & t4.

I'll be honest....as Kelly said, I feel like I got it all in good understanding and then, BAM!! I'm lost again

This thyroid thang sort of reminds me of religion.........The questions, never end!
Rachel
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:12 PM   #11
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

TG Antibodies attack the proteins in your blood. These proteins bind the total hormone, leaving free hormone left over. Anytime the TG Abs flare up and attack, they destroy thyroglobulin. The result is less binding, and thus, more free hormone.

So this antibody is more responsible for fluctuation in the amount of FT3 and FT4 from given amounts of TT3 and TT4Ö.. rather than destruction of the thyroid gland itself (although they might play a part there too, but I havenít checked into that).

It is the TPO Abs that attack the thyroid gland, and destroy it. Once the destruction is finished, the Abs may just go away (think Midwest knows of this Ė I havenít done my own research on this point).
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:08 PM   #12
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

On the tug of war thing....My "guess" is it could go on forever or until the thyroid is burned out and quits working/hits shut down mode. I'm still investigating this myself. But this is what I have found so far.

It seems popular "western" medicine doesn't acknowledge a problem if thyroid lab levels are "anywhere" in the "normal" range.
__________________
Hyperthyroidism 11/05
Confirmed Graves Dx 1/06
Adrenal fatigue Dx 8/06
Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

 
Old 04-29-2006, 06:51 AM   #13
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Bumping up for Ansy and afraid...
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Fibromyalgia Dx 1/08
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Dx 1/08

 
Old 05-02-2006, 06:41 AM   #14
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Re: How can I have A.I thyroiditis w/ TSH like this?

Thank you HyperKim

 
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