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Old 08-31-2006, 01:14 PM   #1
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talper HB User
thyroid and joint pains

i started having pains in my shoulders and wrist 10 months ago after starting weightlifting in a gym.
the pains spreaded and was still there even when i stopped training and a few months ago i was diagnosed with fibromyalgia by tender points.
the pain got worse month+ ago and i didnt want to live with "uncurable disease" and started searching for help and solutions.

my symptoms are as follow:

*joint+muscle pains that started gradually since weightlifting 10 month ago(lower/upper back, legs(knees and above), shoulders,neck, wrist(and i think the start of pain in the second wrist, etc)
*sometimes muscle twiches that doesnt hurt
*sometimes feeling like something is crawling at me
*the last few months muscle farigue and fatigue
*white/yellow coating on the tongue that say "no" for yeast test on the tongue
*this clicks/poping(noisy) on my elbow, when i do fast movment with hand forward i hear noisy poping.
*chronic nasle for 2 years and more
*2 years ago i had dry eyes for months(with hurting jaw) but didnt found a thing, it went away.

i have seveare pains in my wrist(mostly when trying to spin it) and i know its not one of fibro triger points, but still it is one of the first pain i had(and still has) after the shoulders(which are now better)
maybe its carpal tunnel syndrome and not fibro pain?

i dont want to live with pain and with "uncurable disease", so i started looking for information.
i found candida(started treating it) but also found hypothyroidism.
at the time i did my first tsh test after the pains started was 5 months ago and the level was 1.3.
when i started searching for information a month+ ago i droped the hypo idea because of the low level.
i then realise that i can still be hypo with normal tsh.

--but-- i got anotrher tsh test a few weeks ago and got the result yesterday and its 3.05!! i know that can be called "hypo".

my mother has thyroid disease! i think she has hyper(low tsh of 0. something).
is it possible that the stress from the weightlifting caused pains and thyroid malfunction but at the time of the first tsh it was much more normal because i had much less pains?
and now 5 month after that i have more pains the level is up?
can hypothyroidism cause exact fibro feeling with fibro trigger points?
i will thank you very much for every idea or help you can give me.
does some of my symptoms(the poping maybe?) can be related to thyroid and not fibro?
i also heared about metal toxicity(i have bracles) and really want to find a cure, as im very yound and dont want to live with pain.

big thank you

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Old 08-31-2006, 02:13 PM   #2
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

i think i forgot to say i also have chest pain.
the pain also started after physical stress(not weight training but dips if you know it)
again-hypothyroidism can also cause tender points of fibro pains? (ant not obly "joint pains")??

Old 08-31-2006, 02:26 PM   #3
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dryblueyes HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

I can tell you that I am hypo (strong family history of thyroid disease too) and went to 3 docs who told me that I was 'within the range of norms.' I refused to give up, went to an endocrinologist and he agreed that my symptoms were classic of hypoT and that the lab range is not true for all people. My symptoms have included joint pain, popping joints, muscle aches, dry eyes, dry mouth, dry skin, tingling skin (especially legs and feet), fatigue and chest pain. I had other symptoms as well but those are the ones that seem to match yours. IMO you need to find an endo or some other specialist who can help you determine if hypoT is your issue . . . reg docs just don't cut it on this illness. It's been 8 months of trial and error on adjusting my meds but I'm definitely feeling better! Good luck to you!

Old 08-31-2006, 02:33 PM   #4
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

as my english isnt that good, im not sure what poping joint are! (:
is it this wired noise that you here like this, well, poping sound(i think i know what this word mean) not painful ones when you do special and not necesery natural movment? (i dont feel this sound when i dont do this special movment that i need to hear the sound..-hand straight forward as i can pushing from the elbow)

what joint pain do you have? i actually have pains --all-- over my body in all 4 quatres, some places hurts more then the other.
is it true that even big fibro specialists wont be able to know if someone having hypo and not fibro? (because this person will have pains all over his body, fibro triger points, and of course the doc will only send him to tsh tests)
i mean-both illneses are so alike that even big specialists of fibro wont be able to tell the difference sometimes?
or there is different in the severity of pains, that real fibro specialist will come and say-"you have fibro!(by tender points) dont bother looking for someone else!!"


Last edited by talper; 08-31-2006 at 02:36 PM.

Old 08-31-2006, 07:42 PM   #5
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

can i please get more responseS? its really important to me.
thank you.

Old 09-01-2006, 09:36 AM   #6
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Posts: 1,778
elmhar HB Userelmhar HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

Hi Talper,

When you were dxd w/fibro, did the doc run any blood tests to rule out other possible causes? You should at least be screened for autoimmune disease.

If you are trying to differentiate between fibro & hypoT, it's most helpful to have the following tests run: free T3, free T4, and thyroid antibodies. If your doc refuses, you can order your own tests through Health Check USA. Or, if you're still a minor, your parents can sign. When you get the test results, it's a good idea to see where your numbers fall within the reference range. Very often "normal" results at the low end of the range result in symptoms. That's where I would start, if I were you.

There are a few fibro specialists who feel that most fibromyalgia is due to endocrine glitches. If you're up to a lot of tech detail, you can ask for the book The Metabolic Treatment of Fibromyalgia, by John Lowe, at your local public library -- they may have to get it through interlibrary loan.

Best wishes.

Old 09-01-2006, 10:04 AM   #7
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

actually i talked to doctor lowe, and know he thinks fibro is thyroid problem.
i will take ft3/ft4/and ask for thyroids antibodies on sunday..
my rehomatologist did tests for autoimune diseases(anca, anti dna and all this...) and it ws negative... (also ebv and hepathatis who is familier with fibro patients i think was negative)
do you, or other people know people who were dx with fibro and evantually had thyroid problem?
but did they dx by a specialised rehomatologist that checked for triger points(which they had)? or just a regular doctor who told them they have fibro(because they have joint pains) without even testing them?
thyroid can cause fibro triger points?

and why do you think that the tsh level was increased to 3.05 from 1.3 in 5 months? maybe because after 5 months i had much more joint pains?

Old 09-01-2006, 09:12 PM   #8
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

can you please please help me?>
its very very important.
any help will be great

Old 09-02-2006, 11:25 AM   #9
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elmhar HB Userelmhar HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

Hi Talper,

I'm glad you've had some rule/out testing & that it was negative for AI disease.

About your TSH question: TSH can vary by several points within a 24 hr. period. It is really a poor test of thyroid function -- TSH is a hormone put out by the pituitary gland. That's why it's much smarter to measure levels of free thyroid hormone, directly.

I was dxd w/fibro by an internal med doc who did tender points testing. I have autoimmune issues as well but haven't seen a rheumie for confirmation of the fibro dx. My symptoms fit fibro very well.

I was one who had to order my own frees & antibodies to convince my IM doc that a trial of thyroid hormone would be worthwhile. I was reduced to using a walker at age 52 (having previously been healthy & active) & nothing he'd recommended was helping, so he said, sure, why not, let's try a little TH.

Having adequate levels of TH (esp. T3) on board has been critical for reducing/eliminating my pain levels. My TSH had been "normal" for decades while I was experiencing all sorts of suffering, esp. joint pains attributed to AI disease. When my frees were tested, both my free T4 & free T3 were very low. Taking T4 meds (synthroid) was somehat helpful & did raise my T4, but my T3 was not coming along with it. So I've added T3 meds & have had significant improvement. Especially in the joint, muscle, & tendon pain that has been attributed by my docs to AI disease and/or fibro. I rarely need to use my walker any more.

I've also found that testing for estrogen & testosterone levels was very helpful for my fibro. Even though we gals need very little testosterone, it is critical for muscle repair in women.

If you do some research on fibro & Substance P, you'll see studies have shown that most (> 80%) of fibro sufferers have elevated SP, a cytokine that functions as a sort of megaphone for pain, amplifying it. There are any number of factors that can affect/modulate SP. However, the primary dampener of SP signals in the body is thyroid hormone. So it makes sense that people with low levels of thyroid hormone can be predisposed to suffer more pain than those with adequate levels of TH.

However, fibro is a set of symptoms for which there may be more than one cause. I'm guessing that in the years to come, researchers will find different subgroups, with different causes, among fibro sufferers. I like Lowe's theories, but have a hard time swallowing anything that's one-size-fits-all.

So, you'll know more after you get your test results back on the frees & AB. Maybe you're one for whom thyroid issues contribute to fibro pain. Or maybe not.

Best wishes.

Old 09-02-2006, 12:20 PM   #10
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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talper HB User
Re: thyroid and joint pains

the reason i asked if you were dxed by rehomatologist is because the one that diagnosed me is a top worldwide fibro specialist.
he didnt do any magic, but checked my tender points(or trigger?...) both time i have been to him(second time month after the first).
he said "you have fibro for sure!!" and i know fibro as a variety of symptoms that doctors dont know what cause them, but thyroid problems can mimic fibro tender points that well that even top world wide rehomatologist will say "you have fibro for sure!!"??
i mean without proper thyroid exams that will show bad thyroid function, every patient with tender points and joint pain will be diagnosed with fibro, right? (after ruling other diseases like arthritis or something, and having them for x period of time).

can you please describe to me the pain you had? which tender points, and where in the body?
i have pains all over! including the wrist which i know isnt a tender point but was one of my first pains.
do you know what carpal tunnel syndrome is? i know it cause pains in the wrist, and i know its one of hypothyroidism symptoms.
do you think i may have it in my wrist? or its just pain caused by the fibro(which of course isnt a disease)?

last question-when do you think that doctors will find a cause(and a cure) or atleast find few different causes(low thyroid etc)??
is it number of years? maybe more then 10?
i mean, i searched google and found alot of resources claiming fibro is vitamin d deficiency, thyroid problems etc..
are we really close to solving the solution of fibro? or it will take a few years to find a cause and then more to find a cure?
is fibro an orpahn disease? or there are many researches working to find a solution and the solution is closed?

*im oging tommorow to ask for:
free t3/t4
vitamin d
thyroglobulin antibody
thyroid peroxidase antibody
and tsh..

do you think the doctor (family) wont approve one of them?
are they expensive? (i dont pay for the test but im a member in a helath care here that has its own doctors and tests, so doctorst dont cost too, just monthly payments)

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