It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Thyroid Disorders Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-08-2007, 06:32 PM   #1
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 91
meisha HB User
Unhappy Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Hi everyone,
I have been on the board a few times reading and trying to learn more about the disorder. I just got the results of my labs for antibody testing and it appears that my numbers are ONCE AGAIN all in range:

TPO: <10 range: 0-34
Antithyroglobulin: <20 range: 0-40

I'm very disappointed, even though that sounds strange, because now I have no explanation for the symptoms I'm experiencing other than "depression". It's very discouraging since I've been on medication off and on for several years, with little improvement. I still am curious to why the numbers have a less than sign in front of them and if the results show that I actually do have antibodies, but just not an abnormal amount. If so, is it normal to have any antibodies at all? It seems to me that there should be none at all--but like I said I am still learning. Then I got to wondering if maybe having them is not good and the thyroid condition is just in the early stages, so the levels will eventually get higher and the symptoms worse? Am I reading too much into this, because I really hope this whole thing is not in my head?!

 
Old 05-09-2007, 12:23 PM   #2
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 731
ErinBeth HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Posting to bump for midwest1, but do you have any other thyroid lab results? If so, please post name of lab, result and lab range for each in this thread and list any symptoms you have you think might indicate a thyroid disorder. That will make it easier for her to speak what she knows.

As for the "less than" symbol, your lab results mean your TPO normal range is 0-34 and your result is less than 10. Your Antithyroglobulin normal range is 0-40 and your results is less than 20, so you fall within normal range there. IOW, the labs don't indicate Hashimito's. It is normal to have some antibodies as long as they don't go out of range. It would also be considered normal to have no antibodies detected. That's why bottom of range is 0.

Disclaimer: If midwest1 or someone who has been studying this longer than I have says I am wrong, I probably am. The above is what I understand, but I have not read as extensively as midwest1, nor will I ever probably.



 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 05-09-2007, 12:50 PM   #3
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 202
enigmatics HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinBeth View Post
Posting to bump for midwest1, but do you have any other thyroid lab results? If so, please post name of lab, result and lab range for each in this thread and list any symptoms you have you think might indicate a thyroid disorder. That will make it easier for her to speak what she knows.

As for the "less than" symbol, your lab results mean your TPO normal range is 0-34 and your result is less than 10. Your Antithyroglobulin normal range is 0-40 and your results is less than 20, so you fall within normal range there. IOW, the labs don't indicate Hashimito's. It is normal to have some antibodies as long as they don't go out of range. It would also be considered normal to have no antibodies detected. That's why bottom of range is 0.

Disclaimer: If midwest1 or someone who has been studying this longer than I have says I am wrong, I probably am. The above is what I understand, but I have not read as extensively as midwest1, nor will I ever probably.


I've heard similar explanations from general practitioners and I fail to understand the logic. Even if you have antibodies that fall within range, they're still antibodies to begin with and shouldn't even be there. Those antibodies attack the thyroid no matter how small in nature. They're also very fickle, sometimes lying dormant in the thyroid. That would explain why 10&#37; of Hashimoto's sufferers don't show any antibodies in their panels.

Last edited by enigmatics; 05-10-2007 at 02:43 PM.

 
Old 05-09-2007, 10:33 PM   #4
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 12,274
midwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

ErinBeth explained why the "less than" signs are there. Because you have less than the numbers named, which renders the tests negative for antibodies. Some ranges use >2 as abnormal, meaning that more than 2 would be a positive result. It's my belief too that more than that is not normal, and that while 2 or 5 or even 10 TPO antibodies per unit might not cause any trouble at all, that small number might increase and cause a great deal of damage, as you know.

We don't really know if you have 0 or more than 2; we just know you have less than 10 and 20. Most MDs would consider these tests negative for Hashi's. I'm sorry they didn't prove anything for you.

 
Old 05-10-2007, 07:10 AM   #5
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 91
meisha HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Thank You everyone that replied. I am having a pretty bad morning, just sat here on the couch with my husband crying and trying to explain how I feel. Whenever I lay down or take a brief nap I awake feeling my heart beating strongly, feeling very jittery, weak, exhausted (but not sleepy) kinda woozy and very emotional. I know it's not anxiety, because I take my pulse and it's normal..81, but my blood pressure is low 96/65. Then later in the day I will have no energy and have to force myself to stay awake even though I slept 11 hours last night.
ErinBeth, I did post symptoms and my old labs back in March I believe. If you want me to cut and paste I will post them again.
MidWest1, If my levels were 0 wouldn't the lab just report it that way? I also think that if I have any antibodies at all that is not normal, because why would our bodies be producing them unless it was trying to destroy the gland? Do you know why that some people with Hashis don't have antibodies? How are they then diagnosed with that instead of just hypo-t?
BJM

 
Old 05-10-2007, 07:38 AM   #6
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 93
cougars HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Hello,

Just wanted to say that I have about the same antibody readings as you (so technically 'negative'), but I was found to have Hashis through a FNB. So, it appears you can have Hashi's with these type of antibody readings. My labs have been on the hyper side though (but still within range), so I am not sure what is going on.

Good luck to you!

 
Old 05-10-2007, 07:41 AM   #7
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 91
meisha HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Cougars,
Thank you so much for the info. Could you explain what an FNB is please?

 
Old 05-10-2007, 07:49 AM   #8
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 93
cougars HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Hi Meisha,

It is a Fine Needle Biopsy, because I have thyroid nodules. So, they were testing for cancer and found the nodules to be benign, but the pathologist said I have Hashimoto's.

I am on no medication and have my good and bad days. Like I said, when I feel bad, it is mostly hyper symptoms and my labs have been in the top of the range for the Free T's and low end of range for the TSH. My endo feels it might be the early stages of Hashis, where you can be hyper until the thyroid dies out.

It is not a lot of fun, I know. Do you have nodules too??

 
Old 05-10-2007, 07:50 AM   #9
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 389
sparkles916 HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Meisha: A percentage of people do not show antibodies on their test, yet still have Hashi's I had read this some time ago. Midwest mentioned something to me when I first started visiting the forum, that only a test of the thyroid gland by fine needle aspiration FNA would be able to prove definitively that the thyroid was under attack by anti bodies, and it was unlikely a dr would do this.

Anyway, it is hard to "prove" to your dr that you are one of the percent of people who have hashis, but no antibodies.

I was a bit confused about your #s, so I checked back at your old posts. You were saying that in Jan last year, your TSH was 1.19, then TSH was .6 in November. Recently, in Feb, you TSH was .9 and a FT4 of 1.16 (.75-2.0).

Now you have negative Hashi's antibodies tests.

Have you had a free T3? It may shed a bit more light on your situation.

I can't really explain your situation, except to say that from looking up the two labs, lower TSH and lower FT4, ( I know that they are both "in range", but on the low end, and FT4 below mid range) = secondary hypothyroidism.

Of course, it could mean something else entirely, as I am not really familiar with anything outside the "classic" hypo labs.

I think it might be useful to get an new opinion from the experts here, with all your info in one place and asking if your results lean toward secondary hypo. I had trouble understanding your situation, until I looked through your old posts.

 
Old 05-10-2007, 08:40 AM   #10
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: greasy rock, tn
Posts: 3,340
accessn12 HB Useraccessn12 HB Useraccessn12 HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

ErinBeth is entirely correct. So are the rest when they say fna can detect antibody damage to the gland even though there are no antibodies present in the blood at the time. Sparkles has a point too about secondary hypo which is very rare but those kind of labs can also be found in illnesses other than thyroid. Sometimes you see things like that in a systemic illness that has nothing to do with the thyroid itself and sometimes you see them in perfectly normal people.

As to why a person can show some antibodies, an antibody or immunoglobulin is a large Y-shaped glycoprotein belonging to the immunoglobulin superfamily. It is used by the immune system to identify and neutralize foreign objects like bacteria and viruses and such.

It's a very, very complex system that usually stays in check. Autoimmune disease occurs when this system, for some currently unknown reason, runs amok and starts attacking things it shouldn't.

The body requires a huge repetoire of antibodies in order to protect itself. However, although a huge number of different antibodies are generated, there is not an equally large array of genes available, in a single individual, to make as many of the different antibodies as a body needs.

The body has developed certain tricks to deal with this little problem. It has the ability to take one antibody and make it useful against several different things. It uses certain things like somatic recombination, somatic hypermutation, isotype switching and a whole bunch of other big words that basically come down to the fact that one antibody can change it's role and it's structure and be used as an antibody against something else.

Most people, at some point in time are probably exposed to something or other in the envirnment that produces a particular antibody. As long as that stays in check and doesn't run amok, there's no problem. It's one of the reasons doing an antibody check after a raiu and scan is absolutely assinine. The thyroid was attacked and therefore it's going to put out antibodies in order to defend itself and it will continue to do so until it's sure it's safe again.

Top that off with the fact that technology is not advanced far enough for the laboratories that run these tests to be able to absolutely, perfectly detect exactly the type of antibody it's looking at all the time, it becomes necessary to say as long as most people have no problem when we see this number, then it must be ok. Most of the time, they will be right.

Diagnosis is not an exact science yet. Sometimes it's just a best guess.

I really hope you find an answer to your problem soon. It's a horrid experience to feel bad and not have an answer.

Hugs,
Helen

 
Old 05-10-2007, 09:03 AM   #11
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Posts: 91
meisha HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Ok here goes..sorry this is so long, but I'm taking sparkles advice to put it all in one post.
I've had problems since around 2001 with the following symptoms:
Depression in the past--took lexapro
Heart pounding (consistent in the last year)
a few hairs intermittently growing in weird places
no sex drive
cold extremities
fatigue cycling with feeling keyed up (excessive adrenaline?)
Difficulty concentrating/attention/brain fog
infrequent periods (every 3 months)
occasionally feeling of a lump in my throat
Periods of throat being sore
breast discharge (milk)
Dry skin, hair, and brittle eye lashes
Shakiness/jittery? (especially in the am)
Difficulty sleeping (take Trazodone or will wake up numerous times)
Periods of heat flashes(not anymore)and coldness (more current)
Chronic constipation (daily)
Neck, Backaches and joint pain(knuckles)
Eye bags/dark circles/right lid looks droopier than left.

In the past 5 years I've been tested for a pituitary tumor (MRI a few years ago), menopause (they actually told me my levels were post-menopausal in 2001--I was 38!) and more recently hypoglycemia--nothing was found.

1/30/06: referred to an Endo in Hershey for Galactorrhea and missed periods.
TSH…1.19 (only thing tested) he stated that my estrogen, progesterone, and prolactin were normal based on previous labs. I was to return in 6 mos and chose not to because he did nothing, except put me on birth control and said it was menopause!
About a month after that visit I started getting the heart pounding and jittery symptoms to the point that I actually changed jobs over the summer thinking it was stress. I could barely function at work.

11/06: The symptoms persisted even with the job change, so I went back to my PCP and he retested me.
TSH... .6 I was told it was normal and my estrogen and progesterone were also normal..

1/07:symptoms persisted so went back into my family practice for Dysphasia and the physician's assistant sent me to a gastroentrologist. The gastro said it was likely reflux ,put me on prevacid and scheduled an endoscopy. The throat symptoms went away in about a month so I cancelled the endoscopy.
The morning symptoms of jitteriness, along with the feeling of my heart beating stronger and fatigue, depression was making it so hard to get to work so on February 27th, I went back to Hershey to see a female endo and she suspected hypoglycemia and ordered tests.

2/27/07:
Cortisol Random..8.54
C-Peptide...1.54 (.8-3.1)
Insulin Fasting...3 (<17)
Prolactin...21 (1.9-25)
FreeT4...1.16 (.75-2.0)
Ultra Sen TSH....91 (.47-6.9)
Fasting Glucose...89 (70-110)
Glucose 1 hr....126
Glucose 2 hr...103

4/03/07: Went to a new doctor in my PCP office. He decided to change my Lexapro to Effexor CR since I've been taking it for the past year and am symptomatic. Recommended a stool softener for severe constipation..said we would tackle my list of symptoms together…but is treating me for depression <sigh>

4/26/07: I ordered my own antibodies testing online.
TPO: <10 range: 0-34
Antithyroglobulin: <20 range: 0-40

5/07/07: returned to new PCP..He increased the Effexor CR and put me on prescription meds for sever constipation because the softener didn’t work even above the maximum dose! I didn’t have the antibody results so didn’t mention them. I’m scheduled to see this doctor in June again as well as my Gyno. The PCP wants my Gyno to handle the lack of periods, etc. I plan on asking my Gyno why he thinks I’m not in menopause. He did his own labs back in Dec. and said my ovaries are functioning??

Given my persistent symptoms, yet normal levels should I request my PCP run another TSH, FT4 and FT3 when I go back in June?

Last edited by meisha; 05-10-2007 at 09:08 AM.

 
Old 05-10-2007, 02:46 PM   #12
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 202
enigmatics HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by meisha View Post
Thank You everyone that replied. I am having a pretty bad morning, just sat here on the couch with my husband crying and trying to explain how I feel. Whenever I lay down or take a brief nap I awake feeling my heart beating strongly, feeling very jittery, weak, exhausted (but not sleepy) kinda woozy and very emotional. I know it's not anxiety, because I take my pulse and it's normal..81, but my blood pressure is low 96/65. Then later in the day I will have no energy and have to force myself to stay awake even though I slept 11 hours last night.
ErinBeth, I did post symptoms and my old labs back in March I believe. If you want me to cut and paste I will post them again.
MidWest1, If my levels were 0 wouldn't the lab just report it that way? I also think that if I have any antibodies at all that is not normal, because why would our bodies be producing them unless it was trying to destroy the gland? Do you know why that some people with Hashis don't have antibodies? How are they then diagnosed with that instead of just hypo-t?
BJM
I go thru the exact same things you do. I hate waking up because it's the worst time. I seriously feel like I'm rudely awoken with a siren in my ear every morning. My heart feels tight, it's beating heavily.....my eyes burn.... my calves and feet ache.....I can't seem to calm down. Not to mention, no matter how much sleep I get, it's NEVER enough.

 
Old 05-10-2007, 02:47 PM   #13
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 202
enigmatics HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by cougars View Post
Hello,

Just wanted to say that I have about the same antibody readings as you (so technically 'negative'), but I was found to have Hashis through a FNB. So, it appears you can have Hashi's with these type of antibody readings. My labs have been on the hyper side though (but still within range), so I am not sure what is going on.

Good luck to you!
How did you get someone to do the FNB? Did you have questionable numbers or was it obvious from the panels?

 
Old 05-11-2007, 12:15 AM   #14
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 93
cougars HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Hi enigmatics,

I have nodules, which is why they did the FNB. My numbers are all still within range. So, they weren't testing for Hashis.

If you have nodules, then maybe you can ask your doctor to order a FNB.

Good luck!

 
Old 05-11-2007, 11:28 AM   #15
Senior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: midwest
Posts: 123
m. m. HB User
Re: Antibody results ??--Midwest or anyone's advice

Meisha,

I have lab values similar to yours and some of the same symptoms as you (but not all of them). I recently saw a new doc who is waiting on some bloodwork results and I don't see him again until the end of May. He indicated he suspected there was nothing wrong with my thyroid directly but suspects I'm having a dysfunction with either hypothalamus, pituitary or adrenal gland which are affecting my thyroid....i guess in other words, not "primary" thyroid problem but secondary.

I've had many thyroid tests b/c every time i see a doc they always suspect thryoid. This new guy is the only one who picked up on strange relationship in my labs. Most recent values:

TSH: .78 (.34-5.6)
FT4: .76 (.5-1.5)
FT3: 3.2 (2.5-3.9)

The strange relationship is the relatively low FT4 in the presence of a low normal TSH. With a TSH at .78, he would have expected to see a much higher FT4 level.

He also said he suspected I had some mineral deficiencies as well as possible food sensitivity.

Realize this doesn't give you answers - but hope it helps some. I definitely agree something is going on in your situation given your physical symptoms (which are hard to chalk up to depression alone). I've been through the same drill with anti-d's but now that I have physical symptoms I'm finally getting somewhere (hair loss, skin changes, very low blood pressure, rashes, etc...).

Michelle

 
Closed Thread




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Armour
Cytomel
Levothroid
Levoxyl
Potassium
  Synthroid
Tapazole
Unithroid
Xanax
Zoloft




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



sammy64 (666), midwest1 (627), FinnMaid (308), Reece (224), lisa789 (196), Tree Frog (80), mkgbrook (72), cd37 (56), ladybud (45), Bran'sNana (44)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1164), MSJayhawk (997), Apollo123 (898), Titchou (832), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (758), ladybud (745), sammy64 (666), midwest1 (665), BlueSkies14 (610)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:25 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!