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Old 10-23-2007, 11:31 AM   #1
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Tsh Levels and symptoms

I've had a heated discussion with my GP regading my recent tsh test.
Which came back as 3.15 (range 0.5 - 4.50). It has risen from last October which was 2.92.

She is adamant that someone with a tsh of 3.15 DOES NOT experience any thyroid related symptoms. I'd like to know if anyone has symptoms with a tsh around the same level as mine.

My first TSh text came back at 2.62 and I'm convinced that I had thyroid issues then.

I feel like I'm baning my head up against a brick wall at times.

 
Old 10-23-2007, 12:26 PM   #2
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

SHe is wrong. 0.3 - 3.0 is the latest range for normal thyroid function. Optimal is about one. Obviously she doesn't keep up with the changes just as the labs running the tests do not keep up with the changes. You need to find a new doctor that will listen. A MD search can be long and tiring.

You are hypothyroid. You need to have your FT3 and FT4 tested as well. To ensure Hashimoto's is not the cause you need to have TPOAb and TGAb run as well. Positive values here confirm Hashimoto's.

WHat symptoms are you suffering from?

Sincerely,
MG
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Last edited by mkgbrook; 10-23-2007 at 12:27 PM.

 
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:11 PM   #3
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

Hiya,
I've had lots of symptoms for over 5 years now, so I will list some of them, but I may forget a few as I don't seem to know any different now.
1 Swollen eyelids, blurred vision, dry eye
2 tiredness, even after doing housework I have to sit down,
3 Legs feel like lead
4 always feel cold
5 tinnitus
6 have bouts where I wake up, not being able to swallow. LIke Im choking to death, very scarey.
7 can't seem to lose weight. My GP has decided to put me on diet pills, which I'm not taking as I have read so much about them.
8 Periods have gotten lighter and becoming earlier and earlier each month.
9 No interest in sex at all, no libido
10 Feel very depressed (Dr has offered me Anti depressants).
11 Hair falling out.
12 Can't remember things very well. Forget what Im on about half way through sentences. If you gave me a book on instructions, I can't understnad them like my brain has died.
13 Knees creak, joint pains
14 My neck seems to have gotten fatter.
15 Spots, which when squeezed omit a very thick toothpaste discharge (disgusting) sorry.
16 No interest in life it self
17 HIgh cholesterol. Dr thinks its diet, just been living on baked potato and salad for the past week.

I'm just sick of feeling this way ALL the time. I can't seem to find a GP in the UK that understands how I feel as everyone I've seen has put it down to either my weight, or being depressed.

 
Old 10-23-2007, 03:29 PM   #4
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdn5764 View Post
I've had a heated discussion with my GP regading my recent tsh test.
Which came back as 3.15 (range 0.5 - 4.50). It has risen from last October which was 2.92.

She is adamant that someone with a tsh of 3.15 DOES NOT experience any thyroid related symptoms. I'd like to know if anyone has symptoms with a tsh around the same level as mine.

My first TSh text came back at 2.62 and I'm convinced that I had thyroid issues then.

I feel like I'm baning my head up against a brick wall at times.
That dr doesn't know much about thryoid issues does she. You can have a TSH of 1 and still have symptoms. Has she ever tested your free levels? Tested you for antibodies? There are other tests that along with the TSH can diagnose a thyroid problem. TSH alone, in range or not, does not tell the complete story. TSH is a pituitary response not a thyroid hormone. It is telling what it thinks your thyroid is doing and it can tell it wrong. The free levels are the actual thyroid hormones and tell what is actually available to your body. If they are not high enough in the range you will have symptoms regardless of where and how so called "normal" your TSH looks.
Sounds like it may be time to find a new dr.

 
Old 10-23-2007, 03:45 PM   #5
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

I feel awful as well. I just had my blood tested a week ago. My endo said the levels were "perfect." My TSH is 2.45. However, I feel hypo. I'm sooooo tired and depressed. My hair isn't the same. Lots of muscle aches, cramps. Why does this happen?

 
Old 10-23-2007, 04:03 PM   #6
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

You have classic hypothyroid signs. I know there are others from the UK on the board and hopefully you can get there attention. Maybe you can post.. all in the UK treating thyroids.. list your MD/DOs. I wish I could give you a magical name. But I can not. I do know that it is your thyroid.. now you need to get them to treat it. If you can get your FT4 and FT3 levels tested and they are low this will give you room to argue. Also get the documentation about the changes in TSH ranges.

Using that you know what search on "**** TSH range recommendations 0.3-3.0 Spencer" This is jam packed with information for you. Now this is the American Association of Clinical Endocrinology.. but it is a valid source. Get all the info you can and take it to your GP. Also ask for a full thyroid panel to be run. FT3, FT4, TPOAb, TGAb, T3 Uptake, RT3.

SIncerely,
MG
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:16 PM   #7
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by bothered View Post
I feel awful as well. I just had my blood tested a week ago. My endo said the levels were "perfect." My TSH is 2.45. However, I feel hypo. I'm sooooo tired and depressed. My hair isn't the same. Lots of muscle aches, cramps. Why does this happen?
This is typical when the dr does not check anything but the TSH. Are you on meds now or are you trying to get a diagnosis?
If you are trying to get a diagnosis then you need to convince your dr to check more than the TSH. He should at least check your Free T4 and check you for antibodies. The Free T4 should be in the mid to upper part of the labs range and you should test negative for antibodies. If not, then there is a problem.

 
Old 10-23-2007, 08:56 PM   #8
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

I am sitting right here in a blood testing laboratory and our normal patient range for TSH is 0.465 - 4.68 uIU/mL. As a person who has suffered a lot of similiar problems just let me say do not limit yourself to saying this is a thyroid problem. There are dozens of things that could be causing your symptoms. TSH is a chemical sent by the pituitary gland to signal the thyroid to make Thyroxine. I think it is the thyroxine that makes a person feel good or bad. Usually, if the thyroid is not making enough thyroxine--lethargic, weight gain, ect. (hypothyroid), the pituitary sends out a boatload of TSH, signalling the thyroid to try and make more thyroxine (so TSH level is high). When thyroxine is high because the thyroid is overproducing--weight loss, cant sleep,etc (hyperthyroid) the pituitary usually shuts off the TSH (making TSH level low) to try and bring down ones thyroxine level.
You can pester your doctor and get a Thyroxine level done on your blood
(known as T4---the preferable test would be the Free T4..the non-protein bound active molecule---better indicator of treatment).
Doctors usually just do a TSH as screen because usually if it is ok, then the
T4 level will also be normal.

There are lots of other hormones that can affect ones wellness, it is just that thryoid is most common. Maybe have your serum cortisol, ACTH, and aldosterone checked...these involve your hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal glands, all of which can cause some of this stuff. See if your doc will refer you to an endocrinologist...hormone stuff is confusing

Then there is Lupus, Lyme Disease, MS, Celiac Disease, Depression.. that all may be worth looking into. With some of the similiar problems I have had, I have looked pretty thoroughly into these and found some surprises. Example 1: in about 50 percent of cases of Lyme disease, there is no bullseye rash involved and Lyme disease has been found in every state in the US. Example 2: about 40-50 percent of those with confirmed Celiac Disease don't list diarrhea as a symptom.
Both of those diseases as well as the others have very wide ranging symptoms and are worth looking into IMO.

Good Luck to you.

 
Old 10-24-2007, 01:44 AM   #9
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

No I haven't had any T3's or T4's tested as my GP only tests these if you are on thyroid treatments.

I have been told by my GP that even if I changed GP's, I still WILL NOT be treated for a thyroid issue as the lab ranges will be the same.

I'm sick and tired of it all, it is causing alot of problems. I'm too ill to work, yet my boyfriend wants me to work. It is causing alot of friction. He does not believe how I feel, as the GP says I'm fine. He thinks I'm being lazy and do not want to work.

Totally at the end of my tether now and I wonder how much longer I can carry on being like this. Every day is living hell.

 
Old 10-24-2007, 06:40 AM   #10
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

nebakenezer,

What is your lab policy about updating the ranges for TSH. The A C E E and N A C B recommended a shift to 0.3-3.0 as the normal range back in 2002. I know with my quality control EPA standards I a required to do monthly updates and checks to make sure testing follows the most recent EPA guidelines. I would think it would be the same for a biological testing lab as well. Just curious here.. because my expertise lie elsewhere.

To all in general:
Currently the following groups A C E E, N A C B, and A T A are looking at refining the recommended TSH normal range to 0.5-2.5 mU/L. These studies are utilizing males with euthyroidism, monthly TSH testing over a 1-year period to show a high degree of consistency. First, TSH levels pulse diurnally: they peak during the night, reducing to lower levels during the day. Ideally, samplings should be conducted at the same time of day, or between the hours of 8:00 am and 6:00 pm. Samples collected at 8 am will be higher than those at 6 pm. The average of the two results allows for determination of the gaussian peak center. Once again these studies involve healthy no history of thyroidism or antibodies or thyroid dysfunction. So far results put these males ranging from 0.66-1.1 in TSH. The average for the few hundred patients was 0.89. This is a far cry from 3.3 an d 5 and any of the other supposedly normal findings.

I am not saying the pituitary/adrenals/hypothalimus are not responsible.. but getting tested for such in my experience is much harder than getting tested for thyroid issues. And one can clearly gauge ones thyroid health reliably with early morning testing of their TSH, FT3, and FT4. The real issue comes when GPs and PCP and FPs take the lab range for granted and say you are a hypochondriac these results are normal. But as many can attest "Normal" for one is not necessarily "Normal" for another. 300 lb football player Bubba is not going to have the same body chemistry and petite 90 pound Bubbette.

So all the blame for care and treatment can not be blamed on the lab tests and out of date ranges.. but on the doctors unwillingness to explore and search for a solution as well as keep up with the latest research and results. One should take into account the symptoms as well as the numbers.. because while statistical math is grand in dealing with probabilities there are always out lying results. The art of medicine is just that, experimental art. You look at the symptoms and the labs and then have to make a probability weighted guess.. if this doesn't work you move on to the next most likely culprit.. ans so forth and so on. However in my personal experiences finding a true MD that is willing to heal you and find the source of a problem is rare. Often they ask you what you think is wrong and as long as it is not serious.. toss you some meds and say run along. I wish it was so with thyroid medication.. they hand out antibiotics like candy.. but one test trial of synthroid for a three month period to see if symptoms are relieved.. nope nada.. we could never do such a thing. ::GRUMBLE:: This is not acceptable in my opinion. But I am a scientist and engineer and deal in results and solutions.. not minimal management of chronic conditions.

I am venting here because like my Endo, who had her nurse tell me over the phone yesterday.. "She does not treat symptoms.. and would not look into my pituitary, hypothalimus, and adrenal function. All my issues were from my Hashimoto's and I need to just treat the symptoms with my allergist(AI flare responses of swelling and respiratory distress), dermatologist(serious skin crud), cardiologist(palps, tachycardia, irreg HB, murmur), ENT (two sinus surgery, tonsillectomy, adenoidectomy, chronic sinusitis), internal med guru(blood chem issues and digestive track.. he serves as my GP), OBGYN(female problems), and neurologist-opthomologist (visual loss migraines)..
My Endo thus let her nurse tell me (cowardly woman) that she will not manage my care.. that is for a GP. She will wait til my thyroid is dead from Hashimoto's and see me back then. So much for that $250 office visit.. might as well have flushed it. So she has no more good thoughts and recommendations coming from my quarter. And i am back on the thyroid specialist hunt once more.

Sincerely,
MG
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Old 11-05-2007, 02:11 PM   #11
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

I feel so bad for you as I feel exactly the same, why does no-one listen? It makes you feel worse when GP doesn't seem to "believe" how difficult symptons make your life.

 
Old 11-06-2007, 01:53 PM   #12
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

This makes me so angry and sad. I am feeling pretty crappy right now, with obvious hypo symptoms. (High blood pressure, brain fog, indigestion, DIZZINESS.) These are my labs:

Felt great right before:
5/22/2007
TSH: 1.59
FT4: 1.5 (.8-1.8)
FT3: 332 (230-fourhundredtwenty)

10/24/2007
TSH: 2.25
FT4: 1.3 (.8-1.8)
FT3: 269 (230-fourhunderdtwenty)

I am fortuante that my Naturopathic doctor recognizes that I am hypo even though my numbers are all 'in range'. But it makes me sad that the medical profession has no clue about this disease and that so many people are suffering because of ignorance on the part of the doctors.

Keep looking for a doctor that will listen to you. I'm not sure how things in the UK work. Do you have Naturopathic or Homeopathic doctors there? I currenlty take Synthroid but doctors who prescribe Armour or other T3 meds seem to be more understanding of thyroid issues. Check the Armour website for doctors who might prescribe that or call your local pharmacy and ask them if they can recommend a doctor who prescribes Armour or other T3 meds.

Good Luck!

 
Old 11-08-2007, 05:34 AM   #13
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Re: Tsh Levels and symptoms

hi
i am in the uk, nottingham.
i was having really bad problems and i thought it might be my thyroid, my gp said no it wasnt because they were in range tsh was 5.35, so i asked her for a referal to an endocrinologist and i went private.
i am now seeing a great endo who said i was hypo, we are still trying to get my levels right, but he treats on mainly symptoms not blood results as he says they are only a guideline.
it costs me about £110.00 every 2-3 months, if you can go privately it is well worth it .
good luck

andrea

 
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