I been taking Synthroid for years along with my Nardil antidepressant with no problems until a doctor told me to lower the Synthroid dose and I didn't listen and got sick and went to emergency room. Ever since then I been having problems increasing and tolerating higher doses of Synthroid. I am on 100 mcg of Synthroid with probably about 15. TSH by now. Every time I increase my meds I get bad jitters. When I take my vitamins/minerals it reduces the jitters alot. I am supposed to increase my Synthroid but can't tolerate the increases and I am stuck with my TSH being high. I don't know what to do. I was most of the years on Synthroid, then was also switched to Levoxyl then Unithroid back then and went back on Synthroid. Why can't I tolerate Synthroid? One other different doctor said to reduce my Nardil and I did and that helped me increase easily when the Synthroid dose was lower. Now am at the higher dose of Synthroid and can't do it. I used to take 2 Nardil's a day and lowered it to one a day and been on one a day since. Do I have to stop taking Nardil altogether? Not sure if my Nardil is causing my problem or I just may have built up antibdies against Synthroid being I took it for years and stopped and went back to it and or because I haven't listened to lower Synthroid when I was told to. Reason for that is because I went thru 3 different doctors with different opinions, they kept changing the doses and brands. I was thinking of coming off Nardil but Nardil has been reformulated and scared to get off of it. My psych doesn't want me to come off afraid I will get worse. Sorry for confusing story. I just have to somehow find out what's causing my intolerance to Synthroid. My TSH is normal if on 150 mcg but was severely jittery on that dose, but my t3free was low. He wanted me to go on Cytomel but was so nervous already I decided dont take Cytomel. So I am now on 100 mcg of Synthroid and my jitters are mild but still uncomfortable. I also take Centrum vitamins/minerals and calcium citrate and iron supplement and wondering if those are giving me high TSH blood test readings and taking higher doses of Synthroid really too high for me and not needed. I try to figure it out what it is and Ic ome up with all different thoughts.
As far as I know, none of the vitamin supplements you take are going to give you false high TSH readings.
Jitters and nervousness is not really an indicator of a true "allergic" reaction. Certainly, when your TSH is high and you are hypo, your body is going to be very sensitive to increases in thyroid hormone. Some people notice it very easily and others don't feel anything with med changes. I have read a lot of people who have issues when trying to take more and more thyroid hormone. They get jittery for a few weeks, it goes away, and then the cycle starts again when they increase the dose.
It could be that you have a very sensitive nervous system and sensitive cardiac state. Many doctors, when faced with a patient who fills jittery on thyroid meds, will prescribe a beta-blocker medication such as propanolol. This lowers the heart rate and takes the nervous systems off of "alert" which the meds can cause.
I may have missed this in your post but do other brands of thyroid hormone work better for you? If so, I would try that. If not, I would seriously talk to the doctor about taking a beta blocker in combination with an increasing dose of thyroid hormone. It is not good for you to stay with such a high TSH long-term.
Thank you for replying about my problem. I can't really have beta blockers being I am asthmatic and also I take Nardil and can't have propanolol. I just can't understand why doctors can't help me. I was wondering about other brands but I hear it's not good to change brands too and I have done that in the past and wondering if that was part of that caused this jittery to begin with along with the other stuff I went through. I may have to find another doctor. I always go to bed feeling ok and I sometimes wake up with jitters too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA
As far as I know, none of the vitamin supplements you take are going to give you false high TSH readings.
Jitters and nervousness is not really an indicator of a true "allergic" reaction. Certainly, when your TSH is high and you are hypo, your body is going to be very sensitive to increases in thyroid hormone. Some people notice it very easily and others don't feel anything with med changes. I have read a lot of people who have issues when trying to take more and more thyroid hormone. They get jittery for a few weeks, it goes away, and then the cycle starts again when they increase the dose.
It could be that you have a very sensitive nervous system and sensitive cardiac state. Many doctors, when faced with a patient who fills jittery on thyroid meds, will prescribe a beta-blocker medication such as propanolol. This lowers the heart rate and takes the nervous systems off of "alert" which the meds can cause.
I may have missed this in your post but do other brands of thyroid hormone work better for you? If so, I would try that. If not, I would seriously talk to the doctor about taking a beta blocker in combination with an increasing dose of thyroid hormone. It is not good for you to stay with such a high TSH long-term.
I don't know if this helps, but I often get jittery in the morning and it can last several hours. I never know when it is going to happen, but morning time is the worst for me (even if I don't happen to take a Levoxyl that day).
I am a very anxious person at times and, according to my doctor, I just produce a lot of adrenaline (always have even as a baby). I think that it is just part of my "cycle" to produce a lot of adrenaline in the morning. I'm certainly much more calm in the evenings. I consistently have a fairly high resting pulse rate in the A.M. and it will be back down to around 68 beats per minute in the evening. It's odd and it's just me.
I'm thinking that you are similar to me in that your body is VERY sensitive to the hormone changes. It's just one of those things I think you might have to work through. It would be very helpful if you could find a doctor who would work with you on this. I understand about not taking the beta blocker but there are other meds that do the same thing (calcium channel blockers) that might work with your condition. Also, a little Xanax or Ativan could get you through the rough patches until you normal. Antidepressants can actually be quite stimulating so that may not be helping.
I been taking Synthroid for years along with my Nardil antidepressant with no problems until a doctor told me to lower the Synthroid dose and I didn't listen and got sick and went to emergency room. Ever since then I been having problems increasing and tolerating higher doses of Synthroid. I am on 100 mcg of Synthroid with probably about 15. TSH by now. Every time I increase my meds I get bad jitters. When I take my vitamins/minerals it reduces the jitters alot. I am supposed to increase my Synthroid but can't tolerate the increases and I am stuck with my TSH being high. I don't know what to do. I was most of the years on Synthroid, then was also switched to Levoxyl then Unithroid back then and went back on Synthroid. Why can't I tolerate Synthroid? One other different doctor said to reduce my Nardil and I did and that helped me increase easily when the Synthroid dose was lower. Now am at the higher dose of Synthroid and can't do it. I used to take 2 Nardil's a day and lowered it to one a day and been on one a day since. Do I have to stop taking Nardil altogether? Not sure if my Nardil is causing my problem or I just may have built up antibdies against Synthroid being I took it for years and stopped and went back to it and or because I haven't listened to lower Synthroid when I was told to. Reason for that is because I went thru 3 different doctors with different opinions, they kept changing the doses and brands. I was thinking of coming off Nardil but Nardil has been reformulated and scared to get off of it. My psych doesn't want me to come off afraid I will get worse. Sorry for confusing story. I just have to somehow find out what's causing my intolerance to Synthroid. My TSH is normal if on 150 mcg but was severely jittery on that dose, but my t3free was low. He wanted me to go on Cytomel but was so nervous already I decided dont take Cytomel. So I am now on 100 mcg of Synthroid and my jitters are mild but still uncomfortable. I also take Centrum vitamins/minerals and calcium citrate and iron supplement and wondering if those are giving me high TSH blood test readings and taking higher doses of Synthroid really too high for me and not needed. I try to figure it out what it is and Ic ome up with all different thoughts.
IMHO, IMMHO, you are talking serious drugs here. Nardil is not just an anti-depressant; it's a monoaminedoxidase inhibitor. That's serious business, my friend!!!!
EVERY SINGLE DRUG YOU TAKE MUST BE RUN THROUGH THE DOCTOR WHO HAS YOU ON NARDIL, OR IT CAN KILL YOU! I'm sorry to sound melodramatic, but I believe that the MAOUI's are the best drugs for depression, far better than the phony SSRI's and SNRI's, they have very severe problems, as I'm sure you know. You can eat the wrong food and DIE! Them's no small potatoes.
BE certain to check with the doctor who is prescribing the Nardil, how your Synthoid may interact. This is very important. If your doc doesn't answer, I always find that my pharmacist is the best source of this kind of info, anyway.
Good luck to you. It's an uphill battle, because one doesn't go on a Maui, unless the depression is severe, and I will hold good thoughts in my heart for you.
Allergy, not likely, but bad interaction, very possible!
Take care of you.
I am thinking same thing there is an interaction between my Synthroid and Nardil but all the doctors and pharmacies are telling me no. Yeah you are right about Nardil which I am very careful of what I eat. I been on it since 1986. I do talk to my shrink and doctors. My shrink don't want to take me off Nardil and I kind of do because he's afraid I will get worse. I only take one a day, a very low dose too. I sometimes think it's my body's reaction to the Synthroid being I never lowered the dose when I was supposed to and got very sick from it and been having problems ever since, that's why I think it's a possibility my body might be fighting the Synthroid, rejecting it. Who knows but you could be right also. I wanted to get off Nardil just to see if it stops. Someone else in this message board told me she gets jitters too on her thyroid meds. I could be very sensitive to it now. Who knows, right? Hopefully I'll have this figured out. Thank you for responding and also for caring about me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig
IMHO, IMMHO, you are talking serious drugs here. Nardil is not just an anti-depressant; it's a monoaminedoxidase inhibitor. That's serious business, my friend!!!!
EVERY SINGLE DRUG YOU TAKE MUST BE RUN THROUGH THE DOCTOR WHO HAS YOU ON NARDIL, OR IT CAN KILL YOU! I'm sorry to sound melodramatic, but I believe that the MAOUI's are the best drugs for depression, far better than the phony SSRI's and SNRI's, they have very severe problems, as I'm sure you know. You can eat the wrong food and DIE! Them's no small potatoes.
BE certain to check with the doctor who is prescribing the Nardil, how your Synthoid may interact. This is very important. If your doc doesn't answer, I always find that my pharmacist is the best source of this kind of info, anyway.
Good luck to you. It's an uphill battle, because one doesn't go on a Maui, unless the depression is severe, and I will hold good thoughts in my heart for you.
Allergy, not likely, but bad interaction, very possible!
Take care of you.
Allergies to synthroid are the result the dyes used in certain concentrations and various inert ingrediants.
In this case the 50 mcgs are dye free and have the least inert ingrediants. Some patients take 3 50's versus a 150.. or 1.5 50's versus a 75 mcg tablet, if they have known dye allergies. The other option is the generics.. they do not have the same inert/fillers as synthroid. Only parallel is the dyes. However you can do the 50 multiples there as well if the dyes are an issue.
I am betting it is an interaction between your other meds. You have been able to reduce your depression meds.. if your depression was the result of your thyroid, continuing to take it after the source is correct could make you over anxious and jittery as well. I would seriously discuss all your medications with your thyroid MD as well as your psych. I would trust your thyroid MD a bit more, because they would know how the endocrine system funcitons and effects EVERYTHING else.
SIncerely,
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Hi, thanks for responding. You too get jittery? Wow, isn't this sad we have to go through this. Me too I get jitters in the morning about an hour and half later after taking Synthroid. I guess that's when it kicks in. Mine last several hours too but too strong and scary that I end up taking my multivitamin/minerals to stop the jitters being it has iron and calcium from carbonate. I just can't stand going through this at all. I used to take Levoxyl too about few years ago. I think they went and removed the coating from pill where the pill would melt in my mouth before I could swallow it with water. Do you recall that? Not sure if it was that that got me sick. Yeah morning is my worse too and calmer at night. I am an anxious person too. Me too with the heart beat counts. Yeah I have Ativan here maybe I don't take enough dose but it doesn't get rid of the severe jitters. Dose is 0.5 mg and doctor don't want me to take more than 2 a day. I try only one or none but the most I took was 3 but not all at once. I'll have to find out about the calcium channel blockers. I spoke to doctor about those one time before. What do you do about your jitters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA
I don't know if this helps, but I often get jittery in the morning and it can last several hours. I never know when it is going to happen, but morning time is the worst for me (even if I don't happen to take a Levoxyl that day).
I am a very anxious person at times and, according to my doctor, I just produce a lot of adrenaline (always have even as a baby). I think that it is just part of my "cycle" to produce a lot of adrenaline in the morning. I'm certainly much more calm in the evenings. I consistently have a fairly high resting pulse rate in the A.M. and it will be back down to around 68 beats per minute in the evening. It's odd and it's just me.
I'm thinking that you are similar to me in that your body is VERY sensitive to the hormone changes. It's just one of those things I think you might have to work through. It would be very helpful if you could find a doctor who would work with you on this. I understand about not taking the beta blocker but there are other meds that do the same thing (calcium channel blockers) that might work with your condition. Also, a little Xanax or Ativan could get you through the rough patches until you normal. Antidepressants can actually be quite stimulating so that may not be helping.
Hi thank you for responding. Yeah I now take the 50 mcg tablets in two's to total 100 mcg and still get the jitters but not as bad when I was on the higher doses. The highest I went was 150 mcg and it was really bad. Am still very uncomfortable even on 100 mcg and my TSH is high now. Being you mentioned generics, I wonder if I would do better on it then the Synthroid. I have been able to reduce the Nardil but that was the old Nardil which made it easy. They reformulated the Nardil and now it feels scary to try to come off it, like it's short acting and you have to take more. I used to take 2 a day and now been on 1 a day ever since. But had the jitters on the old Nardil with the Synthroid or Levoxyl. I forget what I was on when this happened. Back then I went thru 3 doctors and changed the brand 3 times and the doses up and down up and down. That's when I told them to put me back on Synthroid and today still living with same jitter problem. Ever since I didn't listen to them about lowering my dose of thyroid meds I been having problems since because I been on Nardil for years on thyroid meds and never had a problem. Sorry to keep babbling. I do have an endocrinologist and psychiatrist and my primary medical doctor and none of them are giving me answers. My sister a nurse wrote a letter to this other endocrinologist and he never responded to take me as a patient. I'll just keep trying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook
Allergies to synthroid are the result the dyes used in certain concentrations and various inert ingrediants.
In this case the 50 mcgs are dye free and have the least inert ingrediants. Some patients take 3 50's versus a 150.. or 1.5 50's versus a 75 mcg tablet, if they have known dye allergies. The other option is the generics.. they do not have the same inert/fillers as synthroid. Only parallel is the dyes. However you can do the 50 multiples there as well if the dyes are an issue.
I am betting it is an interaction between your other meds. You have been able to reduce your depression meds.. if your depression was the result of your thyroid, continuing to take it after the source is correct could make you over anxious and jittery as well. I would seriously discuss all your medications with your thyroid MD as well as your psych. I would trust your thyroid MD a bit more, because they would know how the endocrine system funcitons and effects EVERYTHING else.
What is the exact TSH and FT's that you have right now? I am curious if your ratios are off. Getting my Aunt B's ratios balanced was a chore. They finally found her optimum by mixing Armour and synthroid, because she couldn't tolerate the cytomel.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Hi I just had another blood test and will know the results tomorrow or next day because it's being mailed to me. My last blood test was couple of months ago and I was on higher dose of Synthroid of 137 mcg and I was 7.53 TSH and my t3 and t4s and t3free was normal. Now am on 100 mcg of Synthroid and my TSH will be more higher. I will let you know the details when I get it. I told doctor to please do the whole panel this time. When I used to be on 150 mcg my TSH was normal like 3. something but my t3free was low and even my iron saturation got very low to like 7% and my vitamin b12 always high like 1400. I do have all the t3 and t4 details for you from my old and new test results and I will come back here and post them to you. Thanks so much for caring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook
What is the exact TSH and FT's that you have right now? I am curious if your ratios are off. Getting my Aunt B's ratios balanced was a chore. They finally found her optimum by mixing Armour and synthroid, because she couldn't tolerate the cytomel.
Aha! There's a possible clue--or not. The iron saturation is low. Does that mean she may be anemic?? In that case, she wouldn't tolerate the thyroid meds well at all.
A TSH of 3 is not normal.. nor is 7.53. Low ferritin causes hypoT symptoms to be amplified. It shouldn't interfere with thyroid med sensitivity though. That is more an immune response.
Your thyroid is still under treated. I take it from your comment that the T3 was low.. that there is a large discrepancy between your T4 and T3 concentration. This would indicate that you need T3 supplementation. I have heard of more people having an issue with cytomel as a form of T3 supplementation than Armour or one of its counterparts. But with hypoT levels the jittery/anxious feeling can not becoming from an over dose of thyroid meds. You are most likely looking at your Nardil as the culprit. It also looks like you were severely hypoT. I had depression with secondary hypoT.. and I caught mine early. It is highly likely that the depression that was being treated was a symptom of hypoT and as you get closer to optimal treatment.. the depression meds are affecting you adversely. I am going to look up the pharmokinetic specs on Nardil later and get back to you.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Hi, thanks for responding. I even asked my doctors if I was anemic. My mother was. They kept telling me no being my other iron levels were normal along with my hemoglobin being normal and they kept ignoring the iron saturation being very low. I was very disappointed them doing that. I noticed the higher the Synthroid dose the lower my iron saturation got. Would I still be anemic if my other iron levels are normal and saturation low? Now that I am on lower dose of Synthroid my iron saturation went up to but still borderline. I will be back later to post my blood results for iron and thyroid. Am waiting for results in the mail. Should be here today around 3pm, if not, then tomorrow. I was hoping the iron saturation level would be the answer but doctors say no. So finally my doctor after few visits told me to take iron supplements being my ferritin was low, which I saw was borderline. Talk again soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sue1234
Aha! There's a possible clue--or not. The iron saturation is low. Does that mean she may be anemic?? In that case, she wouldn't tolerate the thyroid meds well at all.
Thanks again for responding. Yes my TSH is not normal, it's probably lots higher now being I lower my Synthroid more. Probably in the teens or 20s which I know is worse. I will be getting my blood results today or tomorrow and I will post here. My t4 and t3 was always normal but the t3free was low when I used to be on 150 mcg. Today am on 100 mcg. I also noticed I have hard time increasing the dose or just taking the meds gives me the jitters. I feel more better when I lay down then being upward maybe possibly because of blood pressure from my Nardil or Synthroid. Not sure. Anyway, I will be back later to post my recent blood results. I told him to give me full panel blood test. That's nice of you to look into Nardil. I was put on Nardil for panic disorder. Thank you. Talk to you later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook
A TSH of 3 is not normal.. nor is 7.53. Low ferritin causes hypoT symptoms to be amplified. It shouldn't interfere with thyroid med sensitivity though. That is more an immune response.
Your thyroid is still under treated. I take it from your comment that the T3 was low.. that there is a large discrepancy between your T4 and T3 concentration. This would indicate that you need T3 supplementation. I have heard of more people having an issue with cytomel as a form of T3 supplementation than Armour or one of its counterparts. But with hypoT levels the jittery/anxious feeling can not becoming from an over dose of thyroid meds. You are most likely looking at your Nardil as the culprit. It also looks like you were severely hypoT. I had depression with secondary hypoT.. and I caught mine early. It is highly likely that the depression that was being treated was a symptom of hypoT and as you get closer to optimal treatment.. the depression meds are affecting you adversely. I am going to look up the pharmokinetic specs on Nardil later and get back to you.
MG
Last edited by midniteblue; 02-05-2008 at 11:28 AM.
Reason: Added more sentences.
Hi I got my blood test results and as usual I didn't get the full thyroid panel done. I asked for it too. I see on my blood lab TSH, 3rd Generation is 15.51 and my T4, Free is 1.0 normal and I see the normal ranges for T4, Free is 0.8-1.8 ng/dL. But when they increase my Synthroid to get my TSH normal I get severe jitters but am not getting it now at 100 mcg of Synthroid. Here are my other tests. My TIBC under Iron is high of 474 and the highest normal is 450 and my Transferrin Saturation is closer to normal which is 15 and normal range is 15-50%. Usually when my Synthroid dose is lower my iron saturation gets closer to normal but the other way it drops. My Iron total is normal of 73 and normal ranges are 40-160. My Ferritin normal of 13 and normal is 10-232 but on the lowest side and I take my iron tablets. My vitamin B12 is 1882 high. I wonder if my Centrum vitamins are doing this. My creatinine is normal but my bun/creatinine is high 39 and highest normal is 22. My urea nitrogen is high of 28 and normal highest is 25. I gained alot of weight too 200 lbs now and used to be 175 lbs. Maybe because of teaspoons of smart balance omega peanutbutter I have couple of times a day to keep my blood sugar normal. It feels like it drops bad but the numbers are in the 90s but feels too low. Ever since I had my gall bladder removed I have sugar problems or maybe the Nardil is doing it which I hear is a sugar eater in the body. Am so sorry I piled all this information to you. Hope to hear from you if you heard anything about Nardil. Thanks
QUOTE=mkgbrook;3427251]A TSH of 3 is not normal.. nor is 7.53. Low ferritin causes hypoT symptoms to be amplified. It shouldn't interfere with thyroid med sensitivity though. That is more an immune response.
Your thyroid is still under treated. I take it from your comment that the T3 was low.. that there is a large discrepancy between your T4 and T3 concentration. This would indicate that you need T3 supplementation. I have heard of more people having an issue with cytomel as a form of T3 supplementation than Armour or one of its counterparts. But with hypoT levels the jittery/anxious feeling can not becoming from an over dose of thyroid meds. You are most likely looking at your Nardil as the culprit. It also looks like you were severely hypoT. I had depression with secondary hypoT.. and I caught mine early. It is highly likely that the depression that was being treated was a symptom of hypoT and as you get closer to optimal treatment.. the depression meds are affecting you adversely. I am going to look up the pharmokinetic specs on Nardil later and get back to you.
Okay this is what I dug up on Nardil. And the more I read the more I think it is the Nardil not the Synthroid. Your body is exhibiting many of the symptoms due to too much Nardil. Look over the list of common and moderate side effects below and tell me what you think on the matter.
Nardil is a potent inhibitor of monoamine oxidase. Because this enzyme is widely distributed throughout the body, diverse pharmacologic effects can be expected to occur. When they occur, such effects tend to be mild or moderate in severity (see below), often subside as treatment continues, and can be minimized by adjusting dosage; rarely is it necessary to institute counteracting measures or to discontinue Nardil.
Common side effects due to over treatment include:
Hi, thanks again for responding and going through all that research. I seen these side effects before but never really thought to put two and two together. I only take one 15 mg tablet a day of Nardil. I hear other people take lots more. I used to be on 2 a day and had to decrease to 1 a day to be able to increase the thyroid meds. Now am on higher dose of SYnthroid I can't lower Nardil anymore being I am only on one a day, so that tells me I have to get off of it totally. I see the symptoms listed below and I do get the tremors, some insomnia, jitters. The jitters start after I take the Synthroid in the morning but got a lot less since I lowered the Synthroid. I feel the Nardil may not be letting the Synthroid do its job. But I feel the Nardil somehow helps stop the jitters. It's so confusing which meds is causing it or maybe both together. The jitters don't start when I take the Nardil. What do you think?
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Last edited by moderator2; 02-13-2008 at 03:26 PM.
Reason: please do not ask members to post against the rules
If I were you I would try to get off the Nardil. Maybe try it every other day at first then every third day.. etc. Talk with your MD not your psycologist about this, you can not do with out the Synthroid.. however if the thyroid meds are treating the source of your depression then it taking Nardil will be like taking uppers.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Last edited by moderator2; 02-13-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Reason: do not reply to posting rules violations - instead, click Report Bad Post and let the moderators handle it
You're right I should get off the Nardil but am so frightened being they reformulated the Nardil couple of years ago. But I just may have to somehow. Iasked my MD he don't seem to care to help or psychiatrist. I heard of this Richmond Behavioral Associates where I live in Staten Island NY and they put people on antidepressants and wondering if they can help advise me too and what they think too. Youre right I can't live without the Synthroid. More important than the Nardil. Am not on Synthroid for depression. I don't have much of depression. I am on Nardil for panic disorder and Synthroid for hypothyroid only. Unless you're saying being the Synthroid helping with hypothyroid that it helps the depression same time and panic disorder. I see what you mean. Wow can you imagine Nardil like an upper, I don't like that. What I can't understand is after I take Synthroid the symptoms come and I take Nardil 3 hours later and much better. I should get off Nardil. So I guess getting of Nardil try every other day then every third day. I like that better than what someone else told me, He told me go even slow and cut the Nardil in half then in 1/4's. I am nervous opening up Nardil.
Last edited by moderator2; 02-13-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Reason: posted commercial website
Could I be allergic to Synthroid 
