Hey all. I'm a 34 y/o male who for the past couople of years have been dealing with regular fatigue, lack of labido, tired all of the time and just all out lack of energy. I was speaking with an endocrinologist over the internet in a Q & A session and I gave him the results of my last set of routine labs. Here are the results with regards to my thryoid tests:
I was told my the endo that in his opinion, the TSH and T3 where high (even though within reference range) and that they warranted further testing. Since this was an "online' endo he advised me to see my GP. Armed with that information I went to my GP and asked him about these results and told him what the online endo said. Per my GP's opinion since I was within the reference range "I was perfectly fine and that I should be very happy with those results."
Is there anybody else on here who had thyroid results similar to mine that was deemed to have "hypothyroidism"? Given the results posted above, do you think I should opt to see an endo?
My last labs were over a year ago and I still feel lousy: lack of energy, constantly tired, fall asleep on the drop of a dime, extreme lack of sex drive (my wife is very irritated with this one), etc.,. I also regularly have a body temp of 96 - 97 deg. and have frequent night sweats. I just had another set of labs done last week and I am currently awaiting results. I'll post those results on here for you guys to see once I get them back. Additionally, I do have sero-positive Rheumatoid Arthritis which as I understand it puts you at even more risk for Thyroid disorders. My Rheumatologist says that in his opinion it was not likely that my RA would cause lack of sex drive, low body temp, etc.,.
Your doctor is nut- anyone your age should not feel like you do.
Something is wrong obviously. He is probably working with what are really "old" ranges. Your tsh really should be below 3.0 anything above that suggests hypothyroidism.
I'd call around to doctors in your area and see if you can locate one that works with the new more updated ranges. Or that at least will consider treating your symptoms along with your lab work. My sister was in the "so called" range also - after much suffering and two years later they finally put her on a low dose thyroid hormone. She turned around almost overnight. But she was within range.
From what I've read, TSH in men does run higher than women.
That said, 4.0+ is still moderately raised for a man. "I was perfectly fine and that I should be very happy with those results."
That makes me very - if you FELT "fine" that would be one thing. But obviously they need to dig deeper due to your symtoms
Like Barara says, I'd go doctor shopping. If you're on an HMO, you can always call your medical groups local office & ask for primecare-Dr's who are informed concerning Thyroid issues.
Hi ta2d. Your androgen levels (testosterone and dhea) seem dismally low as well especially for a 34 year old male. This could indicate a poorly functioning adrenal gland or something in the feedback loop of these hormones (pituitary gland). Kind of sounds like "Andropause" which is similar to the female situation of menopause.
Have you ever had your cortisol tested? High Cortisol can suppress DHEA levels and I think testosterone too. I think you have more than just a thyroid issue going on.
I hope you quickly find someone to work with who can help you get this sorted.
Everyone is different with tsh levels and symptoms. With symptoms and an elevated tsh, you need further testings. Especially autoimmune tsts. I ran in the 3's then low 5's a few yrs ago, then latest in Jan was 7.66. Not one doctor ever tested me further or even suggested a thyroid problem even though I had EVERY symptom!!!!!! Now with further tests have found my thyroid is TOTALLY destroyed from Hashi's!!!! If they had caught it earlier I would not have suffered all these yrs, 20+!!! maybe not have had so many needless surgeries to boot!! makes me so angry!!! My new endo said I've has this since my teens, now I'm 51, so a lot of doctors ignorance in between.
__________________
Hashi's / Hypo Jan 2008
C 5-6-7 fusion
L-5 s1, discectomy, ddd, o/a, scoliosis
Hysterectomy
Thanks for all of the replies. I found a doc that came highly recommended by others with similar issues to mine. He is a "D.O." *(Doctor of Osteopathy) which as I understand it is one of the best to go to for issues like this. The back thing is that I have to drive (6) hours one way to get there. I see him on May 5, 2008. Hopefully it's worth the trip and he doesn't tell me I must be dealing with depression as others have.
Hey read my weekly care and concerns post.
[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=597479[/url]
You are definitely hypoT and that post has journal articles posts and citations from the American Association of Endos and National Association of Clinical Biologists.. etc. It goes into detail on what optimal is and where you should be. For a MALE 90% are in the 0.89-1.1 TSH range. NONE should be above 3! Your Fts should also be in the 50-80% of range. Males tend to have higher levels of Fts than females and slightly lower TSHs. Metabolically they have higher caloric demands and needs. I have found no information where men trend higher in TSH than females. I will dig into it though. the study to determine the new TSH was a solid MALE studies of 4000 normal thyroid function males without thyroid dysfunction in their family 90% were in the 0.89-1.1 range back in 2002. A Gaussian bell curve statistical approximation was applied and the new normal was deemed to be 0.3-3.0 with optimal about 1.
You are hypoT and need medication.
MG
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 pg/mL = 21% TOO Low far from optimal.
T4,Free(Direct) 1.09 0.61-1.76 ng/dL = 41.7% Still low.. Also much higher and out of balance with your T3.
You need testing for low ACTH and high cortisol/aldosterone as well as testing for RT3 production. You most likely will need some T3 supplementation in addition to T4 supplementation.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Last edited by mkgbrook; 04-23-2008 at 08:37 AM.
Reason: Keep adding facts.. scatter brain day.
Hey read my weekly care and concerns post. You are definitely hypoT and that post has journal articles posts and citations from the American Association of Endos and National Association of Clinical Biologists.. etc. It goes into detail on what optimal is and where you should be. For a MALE 90% are in the 0.89-1.1 TSH range. NONE should be above 3!
You are hypoT and need medication.
MG
mkgbrook,
Thanks for the reply! I just found your thread that you mentioned. If I am hypothyroid that would explain alot and hopefully resolve some if not all of my symptoms. Hypothyroidism runs in the family on both my mother and fathers side. Both grandmothers have it, one grandfather, my aunt, my great aunt, etc.,. Two of them have Hashimotos. I've felt lousy for so long (over 5 years) that I wouldn't know what it was like to feel right again. I don't understand why its so hard for docs to take their patients seriously and why most of them go strictly by #'s with labs and do not take symptoms into account. If their going to go by #'s they should at the very least have knowledge of the current "normal" ranges.
I'm currently counting the days until May 5th when I get to see my new doc!
Good luck. Be sure to educate your old MD. Maybe you can teach him a new trick. It is a myth that old dogs can not learn new tricks. Maybe old MDs can learn new ones too. Oh.. that was just catty of me. I am a bit hormonal.. I apologize.
MG
P.S. Given the familial history.. you should be getting all your relatives and you tested for Hashimoto's and Graves. It may explain away lingering chronic conditions that meds are just not fixing. I am betting you have Hashimoto's doll.
Invite your family to the board! My mom is just getting used to a computer mouse and not running screaming too the hills. I am working on her to join.. but that will take a bit more effort.
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Good luck. Be sure to educate your old MD. Maybe you can teach him a new trick. It is a myth that old dogs can not learn new tricks. Maybe old MDs can learn new ones too. Oh.. that was just catty of me. I am a bit hormonal.. I apologize.
MG
P.S. Given the familial history.. you should be getting all your relatives and you tested for Hashimoto's and Graves. It may explain away lingering chronic conditions that meds are just not fixing. I am betting you have Hashimoto's doll.
Invite your family to the board! My mom is just getting used to a computer mouse and not running screaming too the hills. I am working on her to join.. but that will take a bit more effort.
MG,
My new doc is faxing over orders to the lab to get my Thyroid Antibodies tested. I planned to call the docs office and ask, but do you know if there is a certain time of day that is better to get blood drawn for this? Also, should a person be fasting for this?
Fasting doesn't matter nor time of day with antibodies. The TSH will be the highest early in the morning. The Fts should be lowest in the mornign as well. make sure you take no TSH surpressors a few days before you get your blood work drawn. Known TSH surpressors are ibuprofen, naproxen sodium and other NSAIDs. You are not on thyroid medications so you do not have to worry about that. Smoking will surppress TSH while stimulating thyroid function as well... it is not a good stimulation either.
Fasting is not necessary unless they are running pituitary and adrenal blood work or testing liver/cholesterol function. Once on thyroid medication you have to get your blood work drawn before 9 am and before you take your morning thyroid medication. But that is another topic of discussion.
Good luck. I am glad that your new MD didn't quibble over the hashimoto's testing. That is a good sign.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Fasting doesn't matter nor time of day with antibodies. The TSH will be the highest early in the morning. The Fts should be lowest in the mornign as well. make sure you take no TSH surpressors a few days before you get your blood work drawn. Known TSH surpressors are ibuprofen, naproxen sodium and other NSAIDs. You are not on thyroid medications so you do not have to worry about that. Smoking will surppress TSH while stimulating thyroid function as well... it is not a good stimulation either.
Fasting is not necessary unless they are running pituitary and adrenal blood work or testing liver/cholesterol function. Once on thyroid medication you have to get your blood work drawn before 9 am and before you take your morning thyroid medication. But that is another topic of discussion.
Good luck. I am glad that your new MD didn't quibble over the hashimoto's testing. That is a good sign.
MG
MG,
Thanks for the reply. Last Monday I had more bloodwork done that included FT3, FT4, RT3 as well as other hormone bloodwork done with regards to my low testosterone. I was indeed fasting for these tests. I don't smoke and I can't take NSAIDs due to ulcer issues so I don't have to worry about those things effecting the test.
My doc now wants me to get the thyroid antibody tests to check for Hashimoto's so I have to go back and get jabbed again...lol. I tell you, between all of the monthly blood tests that I have to get done due to my Rheumatoid Arthritis and now these, I feel like a dart board. This will be the fourth time I've had blood drawn since last Monday.
Anyway, hopefully I'm getting to a point where I can start nailing some of this down. My new doc is very understanding and is great to work with!
Thanks for the info. I"ll let you know how it pans out.
My record is 11 vials of blood drawn at once. I was fasting. The lab tech was not sure which needed to be separate.. so she did each in there own vial. My last big draw was 9 vials.. Two weeks back I had six vials drawn. I am glad I have a good vein. They better not blow it.
Good luck. Make sure it is the TPOAnb and TGAB that they run.. not the 20 year out of date AMA.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Based on these findings my doc has stated "no Hashimoto's Thyroiditis". However, based on the rest of my thyroid labs he has diagnosed my with hypothyroidism. He has started me on Armour Thyroid to deal with the hypothyroidism.
He also ran labs to check for Adrenal Fatigue. Everything with the adrenals came back within normal ranges, however he stated that my Cortisol was right on the edge and that a few more points would have put me in the "high" catagory. He said that I was about to enter Adrenal Fatigue.
Your Ft4 level is at 40%. This is suboptimal.
Your Ft3 level is 23%. This shows you are low in T3 in comparison to your T4. Thus you are out of balance. Your RT3 is not high.. so the slight imbalance can be attributed to your high normal cortisol output.
Putting you on Armour is a good call you need a boost in T4 and an added boost in T3. It would be interesting to see if your saliva cortisol was high the rest of the day. Also did your MD pull an ACTH to see if the pituitary was firecting cortisol accordingly.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Your Ft4 level is at 40%. This is suboptimal.
Your Ft3 level is 23%. This shows you are low in T3 in comparison to your T4. Thus you are out of balance. Your RT3 is not high.. so the slight imbalance can be attributed to your high normal cortisol output.
Putting you on Armour is a good call you need a boost in T4 and an added boost in T3. It would be interesting to see if your saliva cortisol was high the rest of the day. Also did your MD pull an ACTH to see if the pituitary was firecting cortisol accordingly.
MG
MG,
Thanks for the reply. The cortisol result was actually an average over a 24 hour period. He has not done a ACTH test yet. He did a complete blood workup and in addition to the thyroid issues he has also found that my testosterone is dispicably low. Range for the testosterone was 45 - 85 and my results only came back at 32. He has offered to treat me for that also. I'm currently researching testosterone treatment to see what all it entails before I make my decision.
I have to say that I'm very happy, as I've finally found a compassionate, caring, knowledgable doc that actually listens to what I have to say!
There is one question that I forgot to ask the doc. Maybe you can help me with it. Once you have hypothyroidism, does the condition and treatment last for life? It doesn't really matter, as I have Rheuamatoid Arthritis and I'm on meds for life for that so it's really nothing new. I'm just wondering.....
Yes. Once hypothyroid all but a rare few are that way for life. Even with thyroiditis flares normally it is a sign that your thyroid will give up the ghost early. If the thyroid is broken it needs to be corrected with supplements.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.
Ta2d, I hope you don't mind me encroaching on your thread but I have a similar question that I would like to check with MG. (Or anyone else who may know about this.......
I will start a new thread.....Sorry
Last edited by hopalong_too; 05-22-2008 at 08:13 AM.
- if you FELT "fine" that would be one thing. But obviously they need to dig deeper due to your symtoms
Oh.. that was just catty of me. I am a bit hormonal.. I apologize. 
