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Old 04-29-2008, 08:10 AM   #1
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Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Hello,

I am diagnosed as subclinical-hypo.
I am not taking any meds.

Last year, around december, I had a TSH of 4.2,
with normal F-T3 and F-T4 (mid-range) and negative
anti-thyroid antibodies (very low numbers in the range).

Since, then I have been having a huge increase in symptoms
(twitching, tingling, fatigue, constipation, cramps & pain).
My TSH has gone up (last January) to 5.7.

Could this increase in symptoms be related?

My F-T3 and F-T4 are still normal (mid-range).
An ANA test has turned out positive with a result of 10 (range = 0-9.99).
But my doc doesn't want to recheck the anti-thyroid antibodies
because she says it can't become positive in a short period of time (about 5 months).

Is she right?
Is it possible to start having Hashimoto and go from negative to positive
in the span of a few months?

I would like to have your input or experiences please!

Thanks to all!

J

 
Old 04-29-2008, 11:48 AM   #2
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Mine jumped from 285 to 1675 in 2 months. It is possible. Once an AI activates it can hit the ground running.

MG
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:54 AM   #3
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

mkgbrook: thanks for the input. What was the change in your TSH when that happened ?

J

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook View Post
Mine jumped from 285 to 1675 in 2 months. It is possible. Once an AI activates it can hit the ground running.

MG

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:11 PM   #4
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Well I am secondary hypothyroid, with Hashimoto's, and Primary adrenal insufficiency. My TSH is quite.. irrelevent. But the jump was from 1.56 to 2.077. My FT3 and FT4 levels went from 40 and 45% respectively to 30% and 5% respectively. It was the dramatic drop in hormone levels and the dramatic increase in symptoms that was noted and got my cardiologist to test for an increase in antibodies. My AI condition spread into other systems at this time. Now I am just a AI splattered entity, but I know more about the rarer endocrine system dysfunctions than my own MDs now.

MG
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Last edited by mkgbrook; 04-29-2008 at 12:11 PM.

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:14 PM   #5
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Thanks. As for me, the TSH and symptoms have gone up, bu the Free T3 and T4 have remained the same (mid-range)! This is why the docs are not thinking it is thyroid-related... I don't know where to go from there... But my ANA test was mildly-positive, though I don't understand the range. I got 10 over a 0-9.99 scale, nothing to do with what I am used to see on the web (1:80, 1:160, etc). Do you know how my scale relates to the figures we are used to see on the web ?

J

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook View Post
Well I am secondary hypothyroid, with Hashimoto's, and Primary adrenal insufficiency. My TSH is quite.. irrelevent. But the jump was from 1.56 to 2.077. My FT3 and FT4 levels went from 40 and 45% respectively to 30% and 5% respectively. It was the dramatic drop in hormone levels and the dramatic increase in symptoms that was noted and got my cardiologist to test for an increase in antibodies. My AI condition spread into other systems at this time. Now I am just a AI splattered entity, but I know more about the rarer endocrine system dysfunctions than my own MDs now.

MG

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:27 PM   #6
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

What are the exact ranges? I am betting while in normal range you are not optimal and the longer you are not optimal the more stress your thyroid is put under and the worse things get. With out a As is a TSH on just a T4 supplement greater than 1.5 is hypoT in my opinion. Optimal TSH on a T4 only supplement is 0.89-1.1. The N A C B changes the US TSH normal range to 0.3-2.5 in 2006. Int 2002 it was adjusted to 0.3-3.0. I know you are in canada and things are different there, but a TSH that high would have me fighting tooth and nail for a trial medication increase. Your blood work and symptoms should be taken into account. How can the MD tell you what is normal for you.. unless they listen to what your body tells them? They can not. You have to stand your ground and fight for adequate care. I wish it were not so.. but that tends to be the fate of most of us.

MG

ANA is a general AI marker stating that your immune system is attacking the body. TPOAb and TGAb are the thyroid specific markers. The other way to get a picture of your thyroid is a simple ultrasound of it. In such a scan they can determine how large, how much blood flow, presence of nodules, etc.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:32 PM   #7
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

I don't have my results with me but in both cases (TSH=4.2 and 5.7) my free-t3 and free-t4 were almost exactly in the middle of their "normal" ranges, not near the top of the bottom. So my pit. is sending more TSH to the thy. so the thy. can continue to produce the same amount of t4, that's how I understand it. But if the level of t4 is still the same, how can I be feeling an increase in symptoms? Does TSH alone give symptoms? Or is it that I was lucky (or unlucky) when I passed the test and that usually my free-t4 should be much lower...

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:33 PM   #8
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=597479[/url]

This is the post I mentioned with my take on a few of Hashimoto's quirks and an overview of the basics.

MG
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:34 PM   #9
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

In Canada the normal upper end of the range is 4.2 if I remember correctly, but two doctors have told me that with normal free-t3 and free-t4 they don't consider it abnormal until the tsh > 10 !

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:41 PM   #10
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

The TSH is just a signal that your body needs more thyroid hormone, if your pituitary gland is acting normally. As your body demands more T3 and T4 the liver and other systems communicate with the hypothalamus. This causes a release of TRH telling the pituitary gland to make more TSH and get your thyroid in gear. If your thyroid was working optimally it would put out the needed T4 and the TRH would lower and so would the TSH in series response. HOWEVER, your thyroid is not optimal and it is not increasing output with increased demand so systems that were short a month ago are even more short now. You are in a dangerous downward spiraling sequence. You need medication if you are not on any.. or an increase if you are. If at all possible ditch your current MDums.

MG
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:43 PM   #11
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Thanks for the advice.

I am not under medication. The only diagnosis I got was when at 4.2: sub-clinical hypothyroidism. I will try to see another doc and get a full thyroid profile, including antibodies.

 
Old 04-29-2008, 12:46 PM   #12
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Most of us have went through many MDs to get the one that was willing to work with us. In the mean time we suffer. I went through 5 and an Endo. Even with going to all the relevent specialists and getting the conclusion it is your thyroid not your heart, brain, allergies, etc. The Endo still refused to treat me because my thyroid was normal. Well now I have autoimmune polyendocrine syndrome type II and she will get no more money from me. I have an internal medicine IM that treats me and has been able to diagnose many issues in a matter of 2 months. Do not settle for inadequate care.

MG
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:39 AM   #13
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

John.....you can have Hashimoto's without having any antibodies. In fact, about 10 % of the people who have Hashimoto's don't have any antibodies. I had very low antithyroid antibodies, below the range, seems like the count was 4, and my dr. could tell I had had Hashimoto's for a long time just by feeling of my thyroid. He later confirmed it when they biopsied my nodules.

That is probably why you are having the symptoms with near normal labs.

Last edited by SHMILY; 05-01-2008 at 10:52 AM. Reason: typo....changed "half" to "10 %"

 
Old 05-01-2008, 10:58 AM   #14
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Re: Question: negative hashimoto one month and positive the other?

Sorry, John. I made a mistake in the above post. I meant to say "about 10 % [not half] of the people who have Hashimoto's don't have antibodies.

 
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