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Old 08-16-2008, 03:38 PM   #1
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bittygirl HB User
Antibodies

Hi Folks,
Im hoping someone can explain this for me.
I was at my doctor who ran the TPO antibodies and it was 1,300 up way more than it was last year. She told me my endo needs to scan my thyroid very soon because the high antibodies are causing inflamation and I could have an enlarged thyroid or something, and that could be the cause of my difficulty breathing and my swolen feeling in the back of my throat.
What does a scan show? is this a test for cancer as well? Im a little concernd.
My endo never mentioned before doing a scan and never tested anything other than my TSH. My other doctor recently tested my T3 and T4 and they were low as well and to fight with the endo to raise my dose.
Im on Armour and what seems weird is that my TPO anibodies keep rising no matter what does I am on. When i first started on levothyroxine my antibodies actually were going down until I switched to Armour. I love Armour but im not sure if its causing the increase in the TPO. Does anyone know? Im not sure what to do to try to lower the antibodies.
Thanks

 
Old 08-16-2008, 06:38 PM   #2
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Re: Antibodies

Hi bittygirl,

I'm not sure you can reduce the anti-bodies. My understanding is that the anti-bodies are just a foreign army of organisms trying to eradicate thyroid molecules in your body and eventually turn their attentions to the thyroid gland itself.

I'm Hashi too, and my anti-bodies are over 2,500+ and on thyroid replacement of 50mcg whiich is currently far too low a dose. I felt much better on 100mcg a few months ago, but MONSTER anxiety led to dose reduction.
Armour? ? ? - not too sure about this one.
Let us know how you get on.
Regards, waratah

 
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Old 08-16-2008, 11:08 PM   #3
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Re: Antibodies

This might seem like a silly question to you, but why do you want to lower them? Your thyroid is already damaged beyond repair. Reducing the antibodies won't bring it back.

The brand or type of medicine has nothing to do with antibodies. They wax and wane naturally. The only thing that has been shown to reduce them is selenium supplementation... but it only up to 40%, not 100%... and it does nothing for Tg antibodies, only TPOs.

Once I found out I had antibodies, I never gave them another thought. Knowing that merely clinched the diagnosis of Hashi's. The treatment for hypothyroidism is the same, no matter what's causing it. My current doctor doesn't even run antibodies tests, for that reason.

 
Old 08-17-2008, 03:34 AM   #4
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Re: Antibodies

Hi midwest1,
Nice to hear from you again. So, are you saying that the level of antibodies in one's system has no effect on symptoms.

I'm thinking of symptoms like anxiety, depression, cognitive dysfunction etc. Ok, all are part of hypothyroidism, but recall that a person can be Hashimoto's positive, medically euthyroid, and still have pretty rotten symptom profiles. (here of course I'm talking about myself)
There is so much conflicting information about Hashi and hypothyroidism, all I know is that I'm now on 50mcg Oroxine, but felt a whole lot better on 100mcg. New doc [COLOR="Red"](who is just lovely)[/COLOR] is currently using TSH to guide treatment


Oh brother, swollen tongue, anxiety, confusion, fatigue, the list is just endless, and so too is the advice. all advice is welcome, and much appreciated too.

Nice to hear from you midwest1,
Best wishes, waratah

 
Old 08-17-2008, 11:49 AM   #5
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Re: Antibodies

It's just my opinion and that of the former member who taught me a lot of what I know, that ABs are not tied to symptoms. It's my belief that symptoms are tied to inappropriate levels of thyroid hormones. I have seen, though, the experiences of at least two members who believe they are tied to symptoms. I can respect that.

But, I do have a lot of trouble with the term "medically euthyroid". That's the term that MDs use when all levels are within the boundaries of broad lab ranges. I'm as positive as I can be that "euthyroid" is a meaningless term. Everyone has one place within those ranges that is right for them, so no MD can begin to tell me that every place within those ranges is as good for an individual as their own "sweet spot" in the ranges.

 
Old 08-17-2008, 12:00 PM   #6
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Re: Antibodies

Thank you for your information.
Good to know that the antibodies arent going to cause additional symptoms.
I recently had my armour uped to 60mg and after 2 weeks I stared to feel a whole lot better excpted for a 2 week laps of a viral like thing going on and now im feeling better again. My TSH was 2.8 prior to this and I know that my body does a whole lot better when the TSH is around 1, thats why I insisted my endo up the dose. Also I have 200mg selenium in my multivitamin. im wondering if I should take additional supplementation.
So what is the thyroid scan going to tell me about my thyroid? anyone know?
thanks

 
Old 08-18-2008, 06:27 AM   #7
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Re: Antibodies

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
It's just my opinion and that of the former member who taught me a lot of what I know, that ABs are not tied to symptoms. It's my belief that symptoms are tied to inappropriate levels of thyroid hormones. I have seen, though, the experiences of at least two members who believe they are tied to symptoms. I can respect that.

But, I do have a lot of trouble with the term "medically euthyroid". That's the term that MDs use when all levels are within the boundaries of broad lab ranges. I'm as positive as I can be that "euthyroid" is a meaningless term. Everyone has one place within those ranges that is right for them, so no MD can begin to tell me that every place within those ranges is as good for an individual as their own "sweet spot" in the ranges.



Oh midwest1,

here here here, yes yes yes , you're so spot on with this one again.
regards, waratah

 
Old 08-18-2008, 08:33 AM   #8
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Re: Antibodies

I was diagnosed with primary hypothyroidism 3 months ago and am now on levothyroxine 150mcgs daily, my TSH at the time was 187 and is now down to 4 ish. Ive just got back results from thyroid antibodies and they have shown Anti-TPO Abs at 1142 and antithyroglobulin Abs at 248. Do I just ignore these or do these results have an effect on my management plan or future screening?

 
Old 08-18-2008, 09:48 AM   #9
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Re: Antibodies

dcurran... The only thing the antibody tests did was identify the cause of your hypothyroidism as Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Your treatment won't change because of having them.

 
Old 08-18-2008, 10:51 AM   #10
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Re: Antibodies

Having "antibodies" means you have autoimmune thyroiditis. Some people do get more autoimmune diseases because of this. Like my father, he's diabetic, just diagnosed at age 84 with hypo and high antibodies. His doctor doesn't think he has Hashi's? he blames it on the diabetes...hmm, which came first? All I know is I've got several "autoimmune" diseases and have had them almost ALL my life!!! so, was I born with a bad thyroid? did these diseases start due to the thyroid antibodies? Asthma as a child, mono in my teens, chronic urinary infections, hysterectomy in my 20's due to abnormal paps, many cysts, back degenerations and herniations, vitiligo, porokeratosis, osteoarthritis, abnormal kidney, breast microcalcifications, just to name a few...lol. So trying to "piece the puzzle" is mind boggling. I've been tossed from dr to dr. For me, I'm trying to build up my resistance and add natural nutrients, plus progestrone cream, since I've been w/o for 25 yrs and still have HIGH estrogen levels, go figure? I wish I could tell you there was a "magic bullet" but nope. The best we can do is rid any foreign substances, meds and toxins, add the good stuff and live the best we can.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:07 AM   #11
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Re: Antibodies

Hi! I just noticed you guys were talking about antibodies and symptoms. I actually have TPO antibodies and normal levels of TSH, T4 and T3 but tons of symptoms. I have been tested for lots of autoimmune diseases and they came up with nothing. My doctor told me first that antibodies can NOT cause symptoms and then once we did all the tests and didn't come up with anything else, he told me that it was the antibodies that were causing the symptoms. I don't exactly understand it.

 
Old 08-18-2008, 12:26 PM   #12
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Re: Antibodies

Quote:
Originally Posted by iove2iuvya View Post
My doctor told me first that antibodies can NOT cause symptoms and then once we did all the tests and didn't come up with anything else, he told me that it was the antibodies that were causing the symptoms.
Long story short I finally got medication 3,5 years ago. After like 2,5 months on medication the hypo symptoms had pretty much gone away, my FT4 was 24 something (upper limit 22) and TSH 0,73 as I remember but I still felt ill - my chest would still hurt and I felt very weak but nothing pointing towards hypER. That's when my GP suggested it could be the antibodies causing it. My thyroid was obviously "shutting down" permanently at that time (wouldn't take long for the chest pain to stop and the "downhill" to begin). I've heard also someone else's doctor think that since there's chronic inflammation going on why wouldn't it be possible to cause symptoms .

One thing that can be different due to high antibodies - it is probably not wise to settle for "labs once a year" system since one's hypoT may get worse pretty fast.

Last edited by FinnMaid; 08-18-2008 at 12:48 PM.

 
Old 08-18-2008, 05:28 PM   #13
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bittygirl HB User
Re: Antibodies

thanks for your input.
yeah I was told that I had tons of inflamation due to high TPO. It also seems to me that inflamation would cause symptoms. I have the hives like crazy all the time. Just got back from the allegry doc and said its not caused by allegries but caused by my TPO levels. I just got diagnosed with Asthama today though but the skin ***** test showed I was allergic to nothing. weird.
Anyway thanks for your input.

 
Old 08-18-2008, 10:30 PM   #14
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Re: Antibodies

Touché ladies. Bitty, I completely forgot that TPOs do frequently cause hives. Clearly, I wasn't thinking. In that case, trying the selenium to reduce them is worth the effort, but don't exceed 200 mcgs a day. The risk of toxicity is too great with higher levels than that.

 
Old 08-19-2008, 03:05 AM   #15
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Re: Antibodies

Quote:
Originally Posted by iove2iuvya View Post
Hi! I just noticed you guys were talking about antibodies and symptoms. I actually have TPO antibodies and normal levels of TSH, T4 and T3 but tons of symptoms. I have been tested for lots of autoimmune diseases and they came up with nothing. My doctor told me first that antibodies can NOT cause symptoms and then once we did all the tests and didn't come up with anything else, he told me that it was the antibodies that were causing the symptoms. I don't exactly understand it.
Hi iove2iuvya,

hmmmmm, Do anti-bodies cause symptoms? Oh brother, it would sooo great to get some concrete answers on this question.

Like you, I also have tons of symptoms, very high anti-bodies, and am medically marginally euthyroid.

Midwest1 provided some insight on this one too. If each of us has an "optimal" thyroid level, then it is possible that the anti-bodies are affecting our optimum thyroid levels, and thus we become individually hypo at that level. This makes perfect sense to me, but convincing the docs is another matter all together.

Perhaps we ought to direct the medics to this board. I wonder if any docs or researchers actually look and listen to the expereinces of thyroid people.

Should be mandatory as part of medical training. . . .lol . . .

Just my thoughts for now,
Best wishes, waratah

 
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