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Old 12-01-2008, 12:34 PM   #1
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Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

My question is can you have adrenal fatigue with normal thyroid test results? In my past posts I have had thyroid test results and they are always normal. I was feeling better for awhile but now things are coming back....
Exhaustion
Weight gain
Cold intolerance
hairloss
Hard time getting up in the morning...etc.
I have never had my cortisone tested....I know I need to but my dr already said I need to see a shrink....arrgh....

 
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:41 PM   #2
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

Quote

"one of cortisol’s more important functions is to act in concert or synergy with thyroid hormone at the receptor-gene level. Cortisol makes thyroid work more efficiently. A physiologic amount of cortisol—not too high and not too low—is very important for normal thyroid function, which is why a lot of people who have an imbalance in adrenal cortisol levels usually have thyroid-like symptoms but normal thyroid hormone levels."


I could send you think whole article but not sure i can post links

 
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:29 PM   #3
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

Thank you so much for your help. So my thyroid labs can be normal and I can still have problems with adrenals?

 
Old 12-02-2008, 03:17 AM   #4
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

yeah that seems to be something that takes a long time for people to learn.

I would be interested to know if hyperthyroid suffers also need to take adrenal products. would hyperthyroidism put pressure on the adrenal gland, anyone????

also its said that if you have adrenal problems the thyroid has to work harder in order to achieve its normal functions, and therefore you have an overworking thyroid producing normal results.

if you think you have a adrenal problem, try "vitex", search it and the word adrenal, its worth a try. its a natural product.

Last edited by krisuk; 12-02-2008 at 03:18 AM.

 
Old 12-02-2008, 06:49 AM   #5
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

[url]http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=646472[/url]

Here is a thread that you should check out. It deals with thyroid care and concern and endocrine balance issues. The Endocrine system is very complex and works in team work fashion for adrenal/thyroid/insulin production and management. If one factor in any of the various communication loops is off.. the components of that loop are effected. The adrenals help regulate T4 to T3 conversion. If you have too much adrenal out put you can supress your thyroied conversion process and drive yourself hypothyroid. If you have too little the T4 to T3 conversion process has free reign and you can develop T3 Toxicosis.. which is a Hyperthyroid condition.

The adrenals in particular are a very complex gland set that produce your stress and sex hormones. The use cholesterol and triglycerides as their starting blocks.. so if you are high in cholesterol or triglycerides it could be a hypoadrenal issue. Low B12, selenium, ferritin, and vit D effect adrenal synthesis. DO NOT supplement without first testing your levels. YOU can have TOO much of a good thing in the case of minerals. TOO much Selenium/iron/iodine/B12.. can be toxic to your system. It is always best to get checked out before adding supplements willy nilly.

MG
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:49 AM   #6
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

Thank you guys...ur great. I didnt realize that just because your thyroid tests are normal you can have adrenal issues.

 
Old 12-03-2008, 01:05 AM   #7
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

Mkgbrook thanks for link, just printing it

can i run a theory by you

I have had normal thyroid results for ages yet, low adrenal results.

however my thyroid has a huge impact on my adrenals, my thyroid is swollen and when it gets bad i get very hyper, jumpy, senitive to heat, all the horrible things.

the worse my thyroid the more my adrenals struggle, the more my adrenals struggle the worse my thyroid gets, its a painful loop.

originally my dr tried thyroid meds, but they were impossible to take, which i never understood, was like bering a freak.

then we tried oral cortisol and my thyroid calmed down a little bit and i felt half normal (less jumpy, hyperactivity decreased).

The problem is I'm still think I need to target the thyroid, calm it down.

why do you think that I couldn't just take a thyroid/TSH suppressent on its own?

i would have thought, decrease thyroid production, allow the adrenals to recover, but that never happened??

 
Old 12-03-2008, 05:50 AM   #8
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

krisuk,

The thyroid and adrenals are a codependent system. You can not treat one and ignore the other if you have an issue with BOTH. You are saying you have low adrenal results. Please expand on this. Do you have low aldosterone, cortisol, ACTH? Level and ranges? I need specifics to give any educated replies. Normal thyroid results are not always optimal and definitely may not be balanced. What are your TSH, Ft3, Ft4 levels and ranges?

NOW ASSUMING YOU MEAN LOW CORTISOL:
1) You have to look at your B12, Ferritin, vit D levels. You want them to be at least 50% of normal range.
2) You need to supplement your low cortisol with hydrocortisone tablets.. standard dose for adrenals not producing cortisol is 20 mg - 4(5 mg) tablets.
3) You have to learn when you need to take your HC tablet and stick to the regime.
4) It can take 3 months for your adrenal response to stabilize on a regimented HC supplement scheme.
5) When your cortisol output is regulated and optimal for you, your Ft3 and Ft4 levels should be with in 10% of each other.. barring conversion error due to excess RT3 production.. but that is a different organ T4 processing issue.

IF you are SUBOPTIMAL in thyroid levels. BELOW the 50-80% normal range in Ft4 and Ft3.. supplementation of the thyroid could help you. If your cortisol levels are too low, you run the risk of driving yourself hyperT in T3.. T3 toxicosis. So you have to go slow on the thyroid supplementation until the adrenal issues are regulated.
You may need to just start on 25/50 mcgs T4. And hold while your adrenals adjust. You can not treat one with out the other. You can not NOT treat the adrenals and hope treating your thyroid will solve the issue. To do so will almost guarantee you a visit to hyperthyroid land.

Now have you been tested for Hashimoto's thyroiditis?
Have you been tested for Graves?
Have you had a thyroid ultrasound? Any nodules?
Have you had an iodine uptake scan?

Your transient thyroid issues and adrenal issues really smacks of untreated and poorly managed Hashimoto's. But with out having the tests you can not rule it out. Hashimoto's is a difficult beast to treat, BECAUSE when your immune system is killing off thyroid tissue you get sporadic T4 hormone dumps in your system. Early in Hashimoto's this can cause hyperT swings that are not detectable by TSH testing alone. Hashimoto's can hit you hard even before your FT levels fall below low normal range. ALL because the thyroid CAN NOT chill or calm down. It is hard to CALM down when you are under constant siege. Now if you get a copy of your lab results and post them I will be able to Ohhh, Ahhh.. and speculate in a more personal manner.

MG
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:29 AM   #9
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

hi mkgbrook, thanks for the reply

I read about the low Ferritin in your other article, thats totally new to me, I going to read into it.

here is a bit of background and results.

The biggest issue i can;t understand is why i feel like i have been injected with 2 million ml of adrenaline, its feels like that is causing all the problems and making thyroid swell.


Ok I had an adrneal crisis a few years ago and my adrneal glad went mental, i was so hyper its was crazy. my cortisol was 22.4 in the morning (range 3-8)

as a result my thyroid swelled, (unbelieveably it took 7 dr visit to get a swollen thyoid diagonsed, first they said it was swollen muscle crazy)

now years on i feel like my adrenal glad are always going to crash, when things get bad my thyroid swells more and i am so jumpy, numb, tingling hands.

but if anything my adrenaline is low, i can;t see why i am hyper (although nor-adrenaline a little high)

testosterone 350, 407 range (400 -1200) low
Estradiol 0.1 range (0.5 to1.5) low
Cortisol morning 5.7 range (3-8) normal
Cortisol night 0.1 range (0.5-1.5) low
Progesterone 10 range (25-100) low
DHEA 3.5 range (3-10) normal
adrenaline 35 and 59 range (35-165)
Nor-adrenaline 401 and 469 range (165-460)
TSH 1.7 range (0.4- 4.0)
free T4 19 and 21 (10.3 24.5)
TPO 1 range (1-49)
Prolactin 365 range (53-360) high

I just can;t work out why for years i have been hyper, its feel like a constant adrenaline rush, and that it is causing all my problems.

My Dr tried to calm down my thyroid with a TSH suppressant but my body could not cope and symptoms got worse, it felt like it was going to work but it my body just could not cope.

p.s. had no thyroid scans, only ENT said thyroid was swollen


any of this make sense?

Last edited by krisuk; 12-03-2008 at 08:32 AM.

 
Old 12-03-2008, 10:17 AM   #10
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

You definitely need adrenal supplementation. Hydrocortisone/pregnenolone. See which your MD favors. Normal replacement dose for adrenal insufficiency is 20 mg spaced out throough out the day. I do best with 10 mg upon waking(6-7am), 5 mg 11am-12pm, 5 mg 2-4pm. Any supplementation after 4 pm and I am wired.

You also need your thyroid antibodies tested. Your TPO was tested.. not TPOAB. Low TPO may mean high TPOAb. The two Hashimoto's identifiers are TPOAb and TGAb. These tests have a 80% and 60% positive identification rate for Hashimoto's.

You also need an FT3 and RT3 run in my opinion. Your higher Ft4 level may just correspond to a Hashimoto's tissue destruction T4 dump that was caught by coincidence.. or it may be a sign that you have poor liver conversion of your T4 into RT3 versus T3. We can see it is not due to cortisol suppression of T4 to T3 conversion.

Why haven't they run an ACTH? That is important too? It could be that your pituitary gland is kaput and not asking your adrenal gland to do anything. Ugh!

Okay... My take summarized:

You do not look hypoT or hyperT by your TSH and FT4 results.

You can not tell for sure if you are hypoT or HyperT without a thorough evaluation of your thyroid hormones. FT3 and RT3 included. So for cross confirmation you need a TSH 3rd Gen, Ft3, Ft4 and RT3 test run.

You can not confirm Hashimoto's with out a positive TPOAb and TGAb blood serum tests or a positive thyroid biopsy tissue signature.

Your adrenal hormones are a mess. You are definitely hypoadrenal and in need of supplementation. This is important to get under control now. You need an ACTH run too see where your pituitary gland stands on adrenal output.

To ensure that it is not a microtumor on the pituitary or adrenals causing an issue a MRI and targeted adrenal US would be something I would do and have done. i would also insist on a thyroid ultrasound as well. You have had goiter/visual swelling issues. As a result for peace of mind I would want an US of my thyroid as well.. I have had two and have a third scheduled. US (ultrasounds) are non-invasive and a breeze.

Your prolactin is high your TSH is not running true to symptoms.. these are anomolies that point to your pituitary gland acting up.. hence the ACTH test and MRI. Something is up.. now you have to make your MD search for it.

MG
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:21 AM   #11
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Re: Adrenal Fatigue with normal thyroid tests?

This was very helpful information =-)

 
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