It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Thyroid Disorders Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2009, 03:05 PM   #1
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Question Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Hello,
I would appreciate any help anyone could give- I've been feeling lousy for way too long. I called my Doctor & got my results from my last 3 blood draws. For some reason there are no FT3 results even though I take T3 medication.

May 2008- Thyrolar 1 (Synthetic T4/T3)
TSH- 1.52
FT4- 0.49 (0.58-1.64)

After this result the doctor's office called and said my T4 was low & they wanted to start me on medicine if I wasn't on it already. When I said that I was taking medicine, the doctor said never mind & to stay on the dose I was on.

August 2008- Thyrolar 1 (Synthetic T4/T3)
TSH- 1.12
FT4- 0.97 (0.8- 1.8) Not sure why ranges are different
Total T3- 115 (97-219)

Goofed up the October blood draw- took my Synthroid & Cytomel about 2 hours before the test.

October 2008- Synthroid 88mcgs & Cytomel 12mcgs
TSH- 0.35
FT4- 0.71 (0.58- 1.64)

I have been feeling progressively worse & worse. I am only in my mid-20s & shouldn't feel this way! Some of my symptoms are:

Extreme fatigue- sleep 12 hours & can't make it through day
Cold all the time- fingernails turn bluish when house is 70 degrees
Losing lots of eyebrow hair & eyelashes
Very dry skin
Severe pms
Painful periods that abruptly stop
Slow thinking- brain feels frozen- can't think
Memory problems
Abdominal bloating
Bad acne- even along my hairline & scalp
Low mood
No energy
Weight gain- 25lbs in 8 months
Slow reflexes
Heart burn & acid reflux at night
Dark hairs on chin
Excessive hunger- eat big bowl of oatmeal before bed & wake up in 2-3 hours starving

Last edited by macs4life06; 01-21-2009 at 03:53 PM.

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 01-21-2009, 10:29 PM   #2
Facilitator
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,257
FinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB UserFinnMaid HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Your FT4's have been too low. Also your TSH has been unusually high for a patient on T4/T3 treatment. You need a med increase and always have your FT3 tested too. Your T4 dose should be like 100 mcgs for starters and when you have your FT3 tested you could see which type of dose could be better.

Last edited by FinnMaid; 01-22-2009 at 08:14 AM.

 
Old 01-22-2009, 05:56 AM   #3
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hesperia, CA
Posts: 541
Suey77 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Hi ~

Agree with Finnmaid. Your T4's are low. Doctors seem to forget that there is a HUGE difference between Normal & OPTIMAL. Normal is just barely inside the range, while OPTIMAL is usually about mid-range of those lab levels.

Self education is key. I highly recommend Thyroid Power or Living well w/ Hypo-thy

Last edited by Suey77; 01-22-2009 at 05:57 AM.

 
Old 01-22-2009, 08:09 AM   #4
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Dito on FinnMaid.

You are being under treated and need more thyroid medication. OPTIMAL is 50-80% of normal range for a woman of child bearing age and blood chemistry.

May 2008- Thyrolar 1 (Synthetic T4/T3)
TSH- 1.52
FT4- 0.49 (0.58-1.64)

Your Ft4 level is in the tank and your MD said continue on your meds with out a dose increase? What? You need a new MD. What is your current medication level?

August 2008- Thyrolar 1 (Synthetic T4/T3)
TSH- 1.12
FT4- 0.97 (0.8- 1.8) Ranges vary depending on lab and analytical technique applied to get the results. There are three main methods for determining FT4 levels resulting in three different lab ranges. You are 17% of normal range here. You need to be 50-80% of normal to be optimal in range. You are still hypothyroid.

Total T3- 115 (97-219) There is a 20+% error in the total T3 and T4 tests. You need the FT3 to be sure where your T3 levels are with in +/- 5%. You are 14.75% of normal range here. This is too low as well. You need more thyroid supplementation DESPITE the suppressed normal TSH. DO not let a TSH watcher determine you are normal given your symptom set!

Your TSH is suppressed in the T3 medication. Thus it should be tossed out and ignored. You have to focus on your Ft3 and FT4 levels. Any MD who knows anything about thyroid supplementation SHOULD KNOW THIS AND FOLLOW IT!

Goofed up the October blood draw- took my Synthroid & Cytomel about 2 hours before the test.
This may have caused a temporary spike in your Ft levels. The Ft3 is most affected by taking meds before a blood draw... SINCE your MD didn't bother with an Ft3/T3 you should be able to get an idea where you stand by your Ft4 level.

October 2008- Synthroid 88mcgs & Cytomel 12mcgs
TSH- 0.35
FT4- 0.71 (0.58- 1.64) You are 12.2 % of normal here. You need more synthroid. I can not tell about the cytomel. You need a FT3 test result to determine where you lie in that regard. But the fact your TSH is dropping to zero is a good sign that your actual T3 levels may be climbing.

MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

 
Old 01-22-2009, 02:08 PM   #5
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Thanks everyone! I knew in my gut my thyroid had to be out of whack because of how sick I was. I was getting so frustrated because the doctor kept telling me that my thyroid was normal. Luckily I decided to take matters into my own hands and research thyroid conditions & stumbled upon this site. This site has been a lifesaver for me!

Also for the past couple of months I have been dealing with excessive hunger. Last night I almost fainted twice- once was 2 & a half hours after eating a hamburger. My head dropped back & my eyes rolled back into my head. Today I went to the doctor because I was still feeling weak, slight dizziness while sitting, etc. Doctor took a lot of blood for tests (including FT3- made sure of that ) His tentative diagnosis is reactive hypoglycemia, but is also checking diabetes. I was literally hungry every two hours all day & night. I eat and it seems to barely fill me up & then I'm starving again- I even get headaches. Anyone know anything about reactive hypoglycemia? Could hypot cause this? Could it be insulin resistance? Thanks!

Last edited by macs4life06; 01-26-2009 at 03:17 PM.

 
Old 01-26-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Please help... I am at the end of my rope. Just got my blood results back- I was sure that my numbers would be way off because of how terrible I feel. Instead they are normal again. I even stopped taking my Cytomel for a few days because I wanted to see what my TSH would be without the T3 suppression of the TSH

2pm non-fasting/ Synthroid 88mcgs
TSH- 3.44 (0.4- 4.50) Wasn't this range changed years ago???
FT4- 1.0 (0.8-1.80)
FT3- 269 (230-420)
Glucose- 90 (65-99) This range seems weird- isn't 65 really low for glucose?

Don't know what to do- have a physical scheduled in 2 weeks. Why am I battling these severe symptoms if my numbers are not way off? Doctor did chem panel & CBC also- all normal.

Last edited by macs4life06; 01-26-2009 at 03:16 PM.

 
Old 01-27-2009, 05:47 AM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

macs4life06;

I am at the end of my rope.
Don't be and your TSH is not normal. It exceeds the A A C E TSH recommended normal limits from 2002 and 2006. Normal range is 0.35-2.5 now. If you have antibodies (aka Hashimoto's) the TSH range is even more refined to 0.35-2.0. HOWEVER OPTIMAL TSH range is known to be about 1, you are not optimal and by newer standards are hypothyroid and in need of a dosage change.

Just got my blood results back- I was sure that my numbers would be way off because of how terrible I feel. Instead they are normal again.

Yes you are in NORMAL range, but far from optimal in both TSH and FT levels.


I even stopped taking my Cytomel for a few days because I wanted to see what my TSH would be without the T3 suppression of the TSH


How long were you off the T3 supplement? It has a 2 day +/- a day life spanin your system (depending on whether you are hyperT of hypoT). You need to be off it at least 7 days to get out from under the direct influence of the T3. Then the TSH takes a lot longer to adjust than your blood levels... all in all it is a slow and tedious business adjust medication. The TSH is the last to toe the line when supplementation is added. It takes time.

Don't know what to do- have a physical scheduled in 2 weeks. Why am I battling these severe symptoms if my numbers are not way off? Doctor did chem panel & CBC also- all normal.


Well let us see how far from optimal you are:
2pm non-fasting/ Synthroid 88mcgs Optimal time to get your TSH at its highest is before 9 am.. not 2 pm. Your TSH may have been a point or more higher at 8 am.

TSH- 3.44 (0.4- 4.50) Wasn't this range changed years ago???
You have to remind your MD to check the A A C E recommended ranges. In 2002 they recommended a change to 0.3-3.0 in 2006 this was refined to 0.35-2.5 with a Hashimoto's stipulation of 0.35-2.0 being normal if antibodies are present.

FT4- 1.0 (0.8-1.80) You are at 20% of normal range. A woman of childbearing age is in optimal range with 95% of the population when she is 50-80% of normal range.

FT3- 269 (230-420)
You are 20,5% of normal range here. Why are you on T3 supplementation? High RT3? Right now you are balanced with regards to your FT4 and this taking T3 doesn't appear to be necessary, and may throw you out of thyroid hormone balance.

Glucose- 90 (65-99) This range seems weird- isn't 65 really low for glucose?
You are at a good glucose level. 65 is a bit low but you have to understand that the scientist and mathematicians that calculate the normal range on a given optimal range are looking at a broad picture of a large sample set. When you levels hang below 75 for long periods of time you often are faced with hypoglycemic symptoms.

So you are not OPTIMAL in range you are Normal in range, but far from optimal. I had a hoard of symptoms when I was at your levels as well. I had to get above 40% in range to take the edge off my symptoms. If your MD doesn't adjust your meds given that TSH alone.. well you will be needing to shop for a new one.

MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

 
Old 01-27-2009, 03:40 PM   #8
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

Thanks for your reply MG! You are extremely helpful!

Not sure if I have Hashi's. Endo tested antibodies once a few years ago & just said they were negative.

Did not know TSh was higher in am. My appointment was in the afternoon, so he just drew it while I was there.

Was off of the Cytomel for about 5 days when I had the blood draw. If it takes 7 days for the Cytomel to get out of your system, then I guess the TSH & FTs still could have been influenced by it?

Why are you on T3 supplementation? High RT3? Right now you are balanced with regards to your FT4 and this taking T3 doesn't appear to be necessary, and may throw you out of thyroid hormone balance.

Doctor started me on T3 a few years ago because I was feeling so crummy. Never had RT3 checked- should I?

Whenever I first change a dose or medicine I seem to notice a bit of improvement in how I feel for a couple of weeks & then it goes away & I feel terrible again. Does that make sense? I have never felt well, though since my diagnosis.

Sorry for all of the questions.

Last edited by macs4life06; 01-29-2009 at 05:29 PM.

 
Old 01-29-2009, 03:06 PM   #9
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

MG,

Doctor's office just sent me a note card about how my test were "normal." The doctor wrote in that my FT3 was 296 instead of the 269 (230-420) which the nurse told me my FT3 was. Does that change anything in regards to my levels being balanced? Sorry about all of the questions in the post before this one, but I am on a mission to feel better & you and the others on this board have been more helpful than any doctor or book has been.

Thanks!

Last edited by macs4life06; 01-29-2009 at 05:30 PM.

 
Old 01-30-2009, 06:23 AM   #10
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

macs4life06;

Thanks for your reply MG! You are extremely helpful!
Your Welcome.

Not sure if I have Hashi's. Endo tested antibodies once a few years ago & just said they were negative. Hummm.. I would be interested to see which tests were run and if you were Null in levels or just with in normal range but with antibodies present.

Did not know TSh was higher in am. My appointment was in the afternoon, so he just drew it while I was there.
Understood. Most don't know unless their MD shares the information. I wonder how many MDs know it. Mine writes up a lab order and sends me off to make a fasting appointment for the 8-8:30 am slot on the day of my choosing.

Was off of the Cytomel for about 5 days when I had the blood draw. If it takes 7 days for the Cytomel to get out of your system, then I guess the TSH & FTs still could have been influenced by it? Depending on your T3 dose.. yes it could still have effected your TSH. At 2.5 days you would have been at 50% T3 concentration and 5 days 25% concentration... 7 days 12.5% conc... 9 days 6.25%.. 11days 3.125%.. etc. Thus giving yourself 10 - 14 days is the best bet.

Doctor started me on T3 a few years ago because I was feeling so crummy. Never had RT3 checked- should I?
Well it helps to know if it is a flaw in your livers conversion mechanism OR something else causing low T3 levels. Going on T3 because you feel crummy with out finding out the source of the crumminess is NOT a good idea in my opinion.

Whenever I first change a dose or medicine I seem to notice a bit of improvement in how I feel for a couple of weeks & then it goes away & I feel terrible again. Does that make sense? I have never felt well, though since my diagnosis.

Yes it makes perfect sense. Let me see if I can think of a good analogy.. Ah HAH! Since we just had a round of 6 year old B-days... Your body reacts like a children being given access to an untapped supply of candy with regards to thyroid hormones. When you toss more CANDY out there your body which is hormone deprived gobbles it up. Your toddlers scramble and grab and fight and consume as much of the new thyroid meds as they can. At first they get the buzz.. you know the sugar buzz and the party begins. In the case of the thyroid and being in a hypothyroid state boosting thyroid hormones allows for the attempt to reactivate systems and functions that have been idling or laying dormant in your hypothyroid state. Like with kids and the candy pile, some kids will get an arm full others a piece. This will continue until the parents or teachers step in and establish order in the chaos. In the case of the thyroid, this added hormone gets stretched and fought over until an equilibrium is reached which equals mom making all the toddlers in the room share and have equal portions of candy. This equilibrium state takes 2 weeks to achieve with T4 and 7-10 days to achieve with T3 meds. Once it has been achieved, the body them must run a check and note all the activated functions and systems and their status. Functions and systems that still do not have enough thyroid hormones then must result resumption of an idle state so that the essential systems have what they need. This is seen as a re-emergence of symptoms in that 2-4 weeks post medication increase period.

Sorry for all of the questions. No problem! I am a teacher at heart. I believe there are no stupid questions only poor attitudes. The best way to learn is to question.

Doctor's office just sent me a note card about how my test were "normal." The doctor wrote in that my FT3 was 296 instead of the 269 (230-420) which the nurse told me my FT3 was.
An FT3 of 269 is still suboptimal. It puts you at 34.7% of normal range versus 20.5% of normal range. Given the 20% FT4 level as well. You are still in need of more thyroid hormone. You need more T4 than T3 at this time, but you definitely could use another dosage boost. NORMAL is often not OPTIMAL when talking about our thyroid hormone levels.

Does that change anything in regards to my levels being balanced? Sorry about all of the questions in the post before this one, but I am on a mission to feel better & you and the others on this board have been more helpful than any doctor or book has been.
Your T4 levels are about 20% lower than your T3 levels. This means you should probably hold off on adding anymore T3 supplementation until you get your T4 levels up. OPtimal is 50-80% of normal and you are just not there yet.

MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

 
Old 02-04-2009, 04:11 PM   #11
Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 64
macs4life06 HB User
Re: Doctor says labs are normal- are they?

MG,

A couple of other questions...

Going on T3 because you feel crummy with out finding out the source of the crumminess is NOT a good idea in my opinion.

I agree. My doctor told me that some of his endo friends put their patients on T3 if they still don't feel well, despite normal thyroid levels. So, I agreed to try it believing that my thyroid levels were indeed somehow normal. Then I saw a book called The Thyroid Solution by Ridha Arem MD & it mentioned low doses of T3 as very helpful with depression, which I have been having trouble with. Have you heard anything about T3 helping with depression?

Based on my symptom set do you think I should look into adrenal or other testing at all? The most severe symptoms are the fatigue & cold intolerance- I need over 12 hours of sleep a night & even then I am extremely tired. I never ever wake up refreshed no matter how much I sleep. (The fatigue was equally severe even when I was having zero problems with depression & in a very happy point in my life. I even had it the last time I was at the beach on vacation & having an amazing time with adequate sleep).

Thanks so much!!

Last edited by macs4life06; 02-04-2009 at 04:25 PM.

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
My results are in- Doc says I'm "normal." Why am I still exhausted then??? MrHcaphill Thyroid Disorders 5 11-30-2009 11:00 PM
Iron high and other abnormal labs? robine27 Open to All Other Health Topics 5 08-19-2009 06:52 PM
New Labs, heading towards RA I think keystone206 Thyroid Disorders 5 11-10-2008 02:08 PM
Help with the labs... ketamine Thyroid Disorders 1 02-09-2007 04:03 PM
Doctor Says Everything is Normal dlm248 Thyroid Disorders 4 10-17-2006 08:47 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Armour
Cytomel
Levothroid
Levoxyl
Potassium
  Synthroid
Tapazole
Unithroid
Xanax
Zoloft




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



sammy64 (668), midwest1 (631), FinnMaid (313), Reece (227), lisa789 (196), Tree Frog (80), mkgbrook (72), cd37 (56), ladybud (47), Bran'sNana (44)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1182), MSJayhawk (1015), Apollo123 (913), Titchou (862), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (763), ladybud (760), midwest1 (671), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:49 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!