It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Thyroid Disorders Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-18-2009, 07:10 AM   #1
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Thyroid Antibodies High but with Normal TSH,T3,T4

I would like some advice on the following lab work I had done because of various symtoms I have been having such as tiredness, hand tremors, cold intolerance, coarse hair, numb arms/hands, eyelids swelling, etc.

TPO - 97 high (range 0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab - 142 high (range 0-40)

TSH 1.407 (range 0.45-4.500)
Triiodothyronine, Free 3.3 (range 2.3-4.2)
T4, Free 1.18 (range 0.61-1.76) EDITED TO CORRECT RANGE ON THIS

Cortisol 7.7 (range 4.3-22.4)
DHEA 37 (range 32-240)

Doctor says I don't need medication because my thyroid levels are normal. She did say my cortisol and DHEA are low even though they are in normal range. I was also diagnosed with anemia and low ferritin of 2, so I am not sure whether symptoms are from anemia or thyroid??? Any opinions on lab work would be appreciated.

Last edited by herekittykitty; 02-18-2009 at 09:02 AM. Reason: To correct T4 range

 
Old 02-18-2009, 07:40 AM   #2
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 7
Alisonj29 HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

I have exactly the same question as you!

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 02-18-2009, 07:58 AM   #3
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 12,274
midwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies High but with Normal TSH,T3,T4

You have Hashimoto's thyroiditis, based on the strongly positive TPO and Tg antibodies and very low free T4. Your TSH is "normal", and that's likely what your MD based her decision to withold treatment on. But TSH is frequently - if not usually - falsely depressed when antibodies are so high. You're having symptoms because your free T4 is below range .... too low for a human being to squeak by on.

Treating this now may prevent nodule/goiter formation and will relieve symptoms. Your gland is failing to produce hormone you need. You need to supplement what it can't make. If the MD refuses, you may prefer to start the search for a better doctor, one who knows something about Hashi's and will treat you now.

Last edited by midwest1; 02-18-2009 at 08:01 AM.

 
Old 02-18-2009, 08:58 AM   #4
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Midwest,
I am afraid I posted my T4 incorrectly! It is:

T4 1.18 (range 0.61-1.76)

So, it too is in the normal range. So is she correct in that I don't need medication?

Hi, Alisonj, I hope you can get your answers too!

 
Old 02-18-2009, 10:03 AM   #5
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Missouri, USA
Posts: 12,274
midwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB Usermidwest1 HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

OK... That correction makes a huge difference.

Both your free T4 and free T3 are exactly mid-range. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are high enough for you, however, or that you wouldn't benefit from supplementing your thyroid hormone now. You might or might not.

The only endo I saw begins treatment with antibody counts like yours. She says that it can prevent goiter/nodule growth and relieve symptoms. However, she is probably in the minority of endos who think this way. To be honest, you will have trouble finding a mainstream MD who will treat you now. Mind you, I'm not saying you don't need it, because you still could.

If you have the means to find a holistic-minded professional, like an osteopath, you may have better luck getting a prescription for thyroid hormone. Or if you can find an MD who prescribes Armour thyroid for hypothyroidism, you may have better luck. Armour-prescribers are generally more open-minded about treatment than MDs who favor synthetic meds.

Wishing you good luck.

 
Old 02-18-2009, 10:42 AM   #6
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies High but with Normal TSH,T3,T4

Okay you have hashimoto's thyroiditis. You will eventually go hypothyroid and may have periods where you feel it now.

TPO - 97 high (range 0-34)
Antithyroglobulin Ab - 142 high (range 0-40)

TSH 1.407 (range 0.45-4.500) Optimal TSH is 0.89-1.1. You are trending hypoT, but not there yet. You are right at that normal prepare to slide into hypoT land stage of hashimoto's. Why? Let's look at your Ft3 and ft4 levels.

Triiodothyronine, Free 3.3 (range 2.3-4.2) Optimal is 50-80% of normal range. you are at 52.6% of normal range here. This is right at the bottom of optimal range, supplementation at this time may push you hyperthyroid. Mds want to hold off until there isn't a danger of the hyperT silde. I had to wait until my ft4 and Ft3 levels were 5% and 10% of normal range.. I would have benefited when i dropped to 30% of normal... but I didn't have a good MD to work with at that time.

T4, Free 1.18 (range 0.61-1.76) You are 40.8 % of normal range here. You are beginning to drop in T4 into suboptimal range. But you are still close to that 50-80% window.

Getting thyroid meds at this time will be HARD.

What you need to do is keep up with the TSH and Ft testing. Every 3 months minimum. In the mean time work on getting your ferritin up. Low ferritin can give hypothyroid symptoms. You want a ferritin in the 70-100 range depending on your laboratory range. Ferrous fumarate is one of the best forms of iron you can take. iron sulfate is not good absorption wise... or on your digestive track. You also should try adding 10-20 mg of DHEA to your regime. If you have too much DHEA it will show in the manifestation of acne and excess hair growth on the face.. so start slow at 10 and work up in 5 mg increments.. IF supplementing the DHEA does nothing for your fatigue... then cotisol supplementation may be warranted.

I also recommend you get your B12 levels checked. Low or suboptimal B12 levels effect your adrenal function and fatigue as well.

I have Hashimoto's and Graves and hypoadrenalism and reactive hypoglycemia and IR and PCOS and.. well i have to supplement my ferritin, B12, D, K, Ca, Mg daily. My combination of issues has result in what my MDs call metabolic malabsorption effects. All in all it is treatable, you just become a pill popper.

Early on Hashimoto's stinks. I know I was in your boat 1.5 years ago. Now i am on 100 mcgs of T4, 20 mg of hydrocortisone for my adrenal and thyroid. My T4 will continue to increase as my thyroid is systematically destroyed. Last uptake showed that I was about 20% functional thyroid wise. This matches the body weight calculations that I should need 137 mcg of T4 to meet my needs. We shall see when the time comes.

Welcome to our thyroid dysfunctional family. You are not alone and we will help where we can.
MG

Cortisol 7.7 (range 4.3-22.4)
DHEA 37 (range 32-240)
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

 
Old 02-18-2009, 12:11 PM   #7
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Thank you mkgbrook and midwest!

The doctor, who is an M.D. and a D.O., is supposed to be really good with thyroid issues. She put me on ferrous sulfate, B12, folic acid, vit. D (I was deficient in vit. D as well). I also am having my saliva tested for hormone imbalance and will be going on whatever bioidentical hormones that I may be deficient in. I go back to her next week for a more indepth discussion on lab work (she called on the phone and faxed my lab work initially, but I haven't seen her for follow-up). I would like to be as knowledgeable as possible. She did say on the phone I have thyroid antibodies, but medication wouldn't help.

So, it seems I have a lot of issues going on that I didn't know about and I am overwhelmed about where to start first. As I am reading information, it seems that all of my issues are somewhat tied together. Doctor seemed to want to treat the anemia issue first and called in ferrous sulfate the night she called me with results.

Thyroid antibodies + vit. D deficiency + anemia (ferritin 2) + low normal DHEA and cortisol + hormone imbalance = FEELING LIKE POO!

 
Old 02-18-2009, 12:42 PM   #8
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Posts: 14
wipedout HB User
Talking Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Dear Herekittykitty,

Not sure what you mean by thyroid antibodies, but my new MD tested me for something I had never heard of before: "Reverse T3" which measured my body's production of a substance that was blocking my production of T3. I had forever been on Synthroid which is what most doctors prescribe today or at least its generic. But Synthroid only provides T4 and not T3 which is the more powerful of the two. Your body then has to manufacture its own T3 from the T4, but mine was blocking that process. Yet my TSH was always normal.

I am furious that I have been so mismanaged by the medical buffoons for so many years!!

I did some reading about Armour thyroid and about assessing one's degree of hypothyroidism by using basal temperature measurement (the first temperature taken in the morning before you get up or move around much). Normal basal temperature should be 97 degrees (taken in armpit) or higher. Mine tended to be around 94 degrees which meant I was quite hypothyroid.

Forget about using TSH to determine whether you are hypothyroid - it just doesn't work much of the time and yet that is the measurement that the medical buffoons usually do use. My TSH was always normal so they always told me I was fine thyroid-wise even though I was hypersensitive to cold, extremely weak and fatigued, off-balance, with twitching, hoarseness, thinning hair, and thickened skin (all symptoms of being hypothyroid).

Anyway, my suggestion: Find a doctor who is willing to prescribe Armour Thyroid (a type of natural thyroid supplement). Doesn't matter whether he is an endocrinologist or not - just make sure he has a good reputation as an MD and knows what he is doing. None of the local university endocrinologists that I consulted would even consider using basal temperature or Armour. Needless to say they didn't get my business.

Actually, I have found it is a good idea to avoid university settings altogether when pursuing medical answers. They often have such high opinions of themselves as "being on the cutting edge" but all my experiences with university physicians leads me to the opinion that they certainly are NOT. They are, however, interested in getting their students some experience. . .

So, start taking your basal temperature first thing in the morning when you wake up before you get out of bed. Don't move around much. Have all your supplies - thermometer, flashlight, eyeglasses (if needed) - ready so you won't have to do any physical work to take your temperature. The more you move around before you take your temperature, the more your temperature will rise and it will not be a true basal temperature. Put the thermometer under your arm and then have your arm come down over it so it is snug. If your temperature is under 97 degrees, you are likely hypothyroid no matter what other tests say. If it is 94-95 degrees like mine was you surely are!!

I am starting to feel SO MUCH BETTER on Armour Thyroid (made from natural dessicated thyroid and containing both T3 and T4 - unlike Synthroid which only contains the weaker T4).

A good book about thyroid issues is: Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Broda O. Barnes, M.D. and Lawrence Galton.

Good luck to you.

 
Old 02-18-2009, 11:57 PM   #9
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: US
Posts: 45
Eeps HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

I have hashimoto's too. When my Dr first tested my hormone levels I was just a tiny bit low, so he decide to retest them and the hormones came back normal. He then tested for the antibodies. That's when he dx me.

The thing about hashimoto's is that one can fluctuate between low, high and normal in pretty short amounts of time.

So he started treatment with a very very low dose of levoxil, the plan being that my thyroid, which was still able to make most of the time, would slow production if I was on meds, and would simply be more stable if it slowed itself down.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 05:11 AM   #10
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

This may be a totally off the wall question, but can your body stop attacking the thyroid? I'm thinking that maybe when I get some other issues resolved (like the anemia and low ferritin), things may calm down and some of the other issues, like Hashimoto's, will go away? Has anyone ever heard of a complete remission of this?

 
Old 02-19-2009, 07:44 AM   #11
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Once your Immune system has decide the thyroid is a foreign body and dangerous.. it will not cease to destroy it at every opportunity. Of the .. me, mom, Aunt B1, Aunt B2, Aunt R, GG E1, GGA S.. over seven hashimoto's sufferers in my family the only way to stop the antibody production is to take the thyroid out of the loop. You can do this by RAI destruction.. Not recommended, total thyroidectomy.. preferred in my family, or wait and let your antibodies do it for you. When the antibodies have destroyed all of your thyroid tissue and there is nothing left to chew on.. they will settle down.

Ferritin sulfate is a bad choice to get your iron up. It is the most common prescribed, but absorption wise only 20% is taken up in your digestive track.. the rest goes out the back end and normally gives you black stool and constipation. Ferrous fumarate has a higher absorption rate so you can take 35-40 mg to every 200 mg of ferrous sulfate. Also ferrous fumarate is milder on the stomach. If you call and ask your MD I am sure they will say go for the fumarate it won't hurt you. The ferrous sulfate prescription is reflex for them.

MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

Last edited by mkgbrook; 02-19-2009 at 11:15 AM.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 10:57 AM   #12
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook View Post
Once your Immune system has decide the thyroid is a foreign body and dangerous.. it will not cease to destroy it at every opportunity.

Ferritin sulfate is a bad choice to get your iron up. It is the most common prescribed, but absorption wise only 20% is taken up in your digestive track.. the rest goes out the back in and normal gives you black stool and constipation. Ferrous fumarate has a higher absorption rate so you can take 35-40 mg to every 200 mg of ferrous sulfate. Also ferrous fumarate is milder on the stomach. If you call and ask your MD I am sure they will say go for the fumarate it won't hurt you. The ferrous sulfate prescription is reflex for them.

MG
Thanks for answering my question about remission.

The ferrous sulfate is causing the opposite problem for me, not constipation, but loose stools. Not quite diarrhea, but almost. I will speak to her about getting it changed.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 11:17 AM   #13
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oak Ridge
Posts: 6,749
mkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB Usermkgbrook HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

The back door trots. Ugh! That can be an irritation factor of all the added iron. What supplements are you taking and how are you taking them. Adding vit C with your iron pills will improve absorption.. and in some stomach upset.. such as reflux. But you get more iron in your blood. I know the pregnancy iron sulfate really irritated me.

i hope that you get something that works for you soon.
MG
__________________
If we learn by our mistakes, I am working on one hell of an education.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 12:00 PM   #14
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 480
herekittykitty HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies/Normal TSH,T3,T4

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook View Post
The back door trots. Ugh! That can be an irritation factor of all the added iron. What supplements are you taking and how are you taking them.
MG
I am taking methylcobalamin 1000, methylfolate 1000, ferrous sulfate 150 mg., Vit. D3 1000 i.u., and a multi-vitamin all in the a.m. They all say take with food, except the iron but I have to take it with food so it doesn't upset my stomach any more than it does. Then I take an additional ferrous sulfate and vit. D3 in the p.m.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 03:19 PM   #15
Newbie
(female)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 7
corvelia HB User
Re: Thyroid Antibodies High but with Normal TSH,T3,T4

Hi there,
I'm new to this but this reply suggests you are very familiar with all the ranges! my endo has diagnosed me with hypo but my results look normal:

thyroxine 9.3
T3 uptake 27
T4 free( direct) 1.23
TSH baseline 1.584 risining to 13.8 after hormone injection and returning to 11.8 after one hour.

Glucose T T 84, 152, 204, 212, 197 so glucose impaired ( which is part of hypo)

Low Vit D

thinning hair, fatigue nail problems, peripheral neuropathy
Also, goiter and thyroid adenoma with calcifications ( biopsy inconclusive)

Any comments anyone? This all happened this week!

Seeing Rheumatologist tomorrow for results of RA test as I have had frozen joints and calcific tendonitis as well.

Thanks.








Quote:
Originally Posted by mkgbrook View Post
Okay you have hashimoto's thyroiditis.† You will eventually go hypothyroid and may have periods where you feel it now.† TPO - 97 high (range 0-34)Antithyroglobulin Ab - 142 high (range 0-40)TSH 1.407 (range 0.45-4.500)† Optimal TSH is 0.89-1.1.† You are trending hypoT, but not there yet.† You are right at that normal prepare to slide into hypoT land stage of hashimoto's.† Why?† Let's look at your Ft3 and ft4 levels.Triiodothyronine, Free 3.3 (range 2.3-4.2) Optimal is 50-80% of normal range.† you are at 52.6% of normal range here.† This is right at the bottom of optimal range, supplementation at this time may push you hyperthyroid.† Mds want to hold off until there isn't a danger of the hyperT silde.† I had to wait until my ft4 and Ft3 levels were 5% and 10% of normal range..† I would have benefited when i dropped to 30% of normal... but I didn't have a good MD to work with at that time.† T4, Free 1.18 (range 0.61-1.76) You are 40.8 % of normal range here.† You are beginning to drop in T4 into suboptimal range.† But you are still close to that 50-80% window.Getting thyroid meds at this time will be HARD.What you need to do is keep up with the TSH and Ft testing.† Every 3 months minimum.† In the mean time work on getting your ferritin up.† Low ferritin can give hypothyroid symptoms.† You want a ferritin in the 70-100 range depending on your laboratory range.† Ferrous fumarate is one of the best forms of iron you can take.† iron sulfate is not good absorption wise... or on your digestive track.† You also should try adding 10-20 mg of DHEA to your regime.† If you have too much DHEA it will show in the manifestation of acne and excess hair growth on the face.. so start slow at 10 and work up in 5 mg increments.. IF supplementing the DHEA does nothing for your fatigue... then cotisol supplementation may be warranted.I also recommend you get your B12 levels checked.† Low or suboptimal B12 levels effect your adrenal function and fatigue as well.† I have Hashimoto's and Graves and hypoadrenalism and reactive hypoglycemia and IR and PCOS and.. well i have to supplement my ferritin, B12, D, K, Ca, Mg daily.† My combination of issues has result in what my MDs call metabolic malabsorption effects.† All in all it is treatable, you just become a pill popper. Early on Hashimoto's stinks.† I know I was in your boat 1.5 years ago.† Now i am on 100 mcgs of T4, 20 mg of hydrocortisone for my adrenal and thyroid.† My T4 will continue to increase as my thyroid is systematically destroyed.† Last uptake showed that I was about 20% functional thyroid wise.† This matches the body weight calculations that I should need 137 mcg of T4 to meet my needs. We shall see when the time comes.† Welcome to our thyroid dysfunctional family.† You are not alone and we will help where we can.MGCortisol 7.7 (range 4.3-22.4)DHEA 37 (range 32-240)

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Help! Confused about thyroid results and lab ranges kbennj Thyroid Disorders 8 02-19-2009 08:10 AM
My wife has thyroid disease..... uchan77 Thyroid Disorders 7 11-18-2008 09:40 AM
thyroid problem? cdg829 Thyroid Disorders 1 09-21-2008 04:47 PM
Lab interpretation - Postpartum Thyroid problem?? lmcousins Thyroid Disorders 5 05-20-2008 06:44 AM
Please help! Have antibodies on thyroid... Amos55 Thyroid Disorders 11 04-23-2008 06:36 PM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Armour
Cytomel
Levothroid
Levoxyl
Potassium
  Synthroid
Tapazole
Unithroid
Xanax
Zoloft




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



sammy64 (666), midwest1 (627), FinnMaid (308), Reece (224), lisa789 (196), Tree Frog (80), mkgbrook (72), cd37 (56), ladybud (45), Bran'sNana (44)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1164), MSJayhawk (997), Apollo123 (898), Titchou (832), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (758), ladybud (745), sammy64 (666), midwest1 (665), BlueSkies14 (610)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:25 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!