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Old 06-05-2009, 12:53 PM   #1
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ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

So, I had been on a combination of Armour Thyroid and Synthroid, prescribed by a Naturopath (60 mg armour and 75 mcg Synthroid), and wasn't feeling to great, as I felt a little hypo, with a low heart rate, even though my TSH was 0.1.

My en do agreed to allow me to continue on some form of T3, but he wanted to be in the "drivers seat", so he put me on 125 mcg and 7.5 mcg Cytomel. Within two days, I felt supremely HYPERthyroid, with a resting pulse in the 90's, and just overall feeling very, very quick and unfocused. This continued even when I cut the cytomel to 5 mcg per day. My endo wanted to cut it all the way down to 112 mcg per day Synthroid and 3.5 mcg Armour.

But my question is, how could this happen? I had been on even MORE Armour (Synthroid/Cytomel equivalent is 155 mcg T4, Synthroid/ Armour equivalent is 175 mcg T4). Why would I feel hyper on the lower dose and hypo on the higher one?

Also, is armour really as variable pill to pill, batch to batch as my endo says. I know it has quality control issues, but so does every med. fthdfjufgy.

 
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:00 PM   #2
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

My experience with Synthroid was similar. I became hyper on the smallest dose. Once I switched to a low dose of Armour, I never became hyper again and was able to gradually increase the dose to a full replacement measure. I don't know why this happened. My suspicion is my body just didn't like the synthetic and the natural is perhaps more "gentle" for me. What I do know for fact is that the way different brands work for any one body can vary widely, so that almost no one can switch between brands without some degree of variability in efficacy between them.

There is absolutely no truth to the old saw that Armour is too variable. The synthetics have had far more recalls due to potency and stability issues than Armour ever has... and remember, Armour is about 70 years older than Synthroid, the first synthetic. It's manufactured according to the same USP standards as any other prescription med, but endos refuse to let the untruth die.

A TSH of .1 seems too high for someone taking Armour. TSH will generally be almost completely suppressed when the dose is optimal. My own TSH has never been higher than .02 since I began taking my current, full replacement dose. Something tells me you just needed more of it than you were taking.

I hope you can get the right combination of the right meds that you need. But it seems that you may never be able to tolerate the Cytomel, just as I couldn't tolerate the Synthroid.

 
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:45 AM   #3
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

I am a firm believer in Amour!!!... EVERYTHING negative that is passed through the rumor mill is exactly that, RUMOR. There is no variance in quality or proper dosage or that Armour is being discontinued! I'm not so sure that you should supplement armour w/ cytomel as armour has both t3 and t4 because it is natural. Look at * link to commercial website removed by hb-mod, moderator * Good Luck

Last edited by hb-mod; 06-06-2009 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Please don't post links and/or instructions regarding commercial websites as per Posting Policy. Thanks.

 
Old 06-15-2009, 05:25 PM   #4
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

OK, so update for everyone...if they could give me their thoughts that would be great!

I got so racy on the synthroid (125 mcg) and 7.5 mcg Cytomel daily (even though it was split up 3x/day)...I have never felt worse, including on Synthroid alone. I felt like I needed to bang a wall and SCREAM. So I went back on my original dose of synthroid (75 mcg) and armour (60 mg/day)...I had felt alright on this before (even though I'd had a low heart rate, etc., and felt slightly HYPO), but I got my refill on armour and 75 mcg synthroid's, and still, a week later, I felt REALLY hyper and RACY. a little better than cytomel, but still awful. Exactly a week ago my endo changed the prescription to 88 mcg Synthroid and 45 mg Armour thyroid a day. I feel better, but still slightly racy, and on the cross trainer today my heart rate went up to 190 (!!), and I'm having sleep issues (my room is at 63 degrees and I still sweat a little bit at night, and only can manage 4 or 5 hours). I called my endo this morning and he said that I've switched the dose twice in the last 4 weeks (from 1 grain armour/75 synthroid to 125 synthroid/cytomel, back to 1 grain armour/75 synthroid and then to 45 mg armour/ 88 mcg synthroid), and that it would not be advisable to dose up or down right now, but give my body a few weeks to let this dose even out, and see if the raciness abates. Is it possible it will, and how long will it take? My doc is concerned about weight loss as well, because I'm all of 136 lbs., with a suppressed TSH (.1) for thyroid cancer. Most importantly, I JUST WANT TWO THINGS

1) to have energy (which I have in spades right this minute)
2) the ability to be calm and focus it in (sorely lacking right now)

Anyone with any sage words of wisdom for this 22 year old dude drowning in terror that this will never even itself out and I'll never achieve those 2 above goals simultaneously?


Thanks!

Doug

 
Old 06-15-2009, 06:48 PM   #5
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

I just wanted to say that I'm in a similar situation on the opposite side of the coin After being at a good place for a long time, my thyroid has recently taken a nose-dive and landed me in a bad place. I've recently had my dosage upped from 125 to 150 to 175 to 200 trying to get out of hypo-ville. I keep telling myself to just hang in there and eventually this fog & depression will go away. I agree that it takes a while after each dosage change, but it's so hard to be patient when you are feeling so dang bad!

At 22, I wouldn't worry too much about your heart rate getting up to 190 while vigorously working out. I'm 33 and it's not abnormal for my heartrate to get up to 170 when working out intensely. When I'm in super workout mode, my heartrate is very low at rest as well (sometimes as low as 45). As funny as it sounds, I think being in really good cardio shape has a bigger effect on our heartrate than anything else. So, that may be why you are seeing such a huge variability there. Also, every time I dose up from one Synthroid to the next, I have a few days of heart racing.

I'm sort of all over the place. Just wanted to give you some encouragement and tell you to hang in there. I'd give it at least a week to see how you feel after the dosage change.

I'd do just about anything to find a doctor who will let me try Armour. I've been looking for years, and I'm still looking

 
Old 06-15-2009, 08:08 PM   #6
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

I myself have never taken Synthroid.... I have an allergy to milk and synthroid and thyrolar2 both have a lactose base. I have been on Armour for 3 years now. I take up to 4 Grains a day......just recently went down to 2 Grains and it is just tooooo low for me. I also take 25mcg of Cytomel in the afternoon. My TSH is zero and that is where we want it. Everyone is different but Armour agrees with me.

I did however take Thyrolar2 for a while and I felt great on it.....my Endo pulled me off of it due to my milk allergy just to be safe. Thyrolar is made my Forrest who make Armour....I actually felt better on Thyrolar2 than Armour.

Good luck......... Oleander

 
Old 06-17-2009, 04:26 PM   #7
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

Ok....Now I'm REALLY TERRIFIED. As a thyca patient, my TSH should be around .1


My TSH was 1
My free T4 was 1.4 (.8-1.8)
My free T3 was 424 (230-420) OVER range

I was having HYPER symptoms.

You guys, I'm seriously terrified and don't know what to do. The endo told me to stay on my current regiment (88 mcg Synthroid, 30 mg Armour in the morning and 15 mg Armour in the evening)

I just want to figure out how to feel normal again!!!! AHHHH

 
Old 06-17-2009, 04:27 PM   #8
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

that should read thyroid cancer...not sure why that got starred out.


Anyway, HELP.

 
Old 06-18-2009, 01:01 AM   #9
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

Are you sure it was 1? Maybe a lab error? Sometimes T3 supplements (like Armour) suppress one's TSH on pretty low doses too. The medication isn't supposed to make you be HyperT no matter what the case. But you have been on this new medication such a short time that your body probably hasn't adjusted just yet and your labs may not be showing the real situation.

Last edited by FinnMaid; 06-18-2009 at 01:07 AM.

 
Old 06-18-2009, 07:26 AM   #10
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

Did you take your Synth/Armour very shortly before you had blood drawn for the new tests? If you do that within about 6 hours of the blood draw, it causes an spike in the free Ts that doesn't reflect what cellular levels really are. That would account for the high FT3.

There's no need to panic. Any adjustments in dose need time to even out. Your doc is sincerely trying to get it right. Give him a chance; things will turn out ok.

 
Old 06-18-2009, 12:03 PM   #11
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Re: ARmour/Synthroid vs. Cytomel/Syntrhoid

Well, what makes me nervous is that I've been having anxiety, sort of mild chest tightness with the armour, that dissipates only in the morning, before I take the morning dose, so the free T3 spike doesn't surprise me.

I'm not tired right now on the armour (change since pur synth), but I am physically really uncomfortable.


We'll see what happens


Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
Did you take your Synth/Armour very shortly before you had blood drawn for the new tests? If you do that within about 6 hours of the blood draw, it causes an spike in the free Ts that doesn't reflect what cellular levels really are. That would account for the high FT3.

There's no need to panic. Any adjustments in dose need time to even out. Your doc is sincerely trying to get it right. Give him a chance; things will turn out ok.

 
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