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Old 07-16-2009, 04:04 AM   #1
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Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

I'm sorry to bother you, I know everyone must post results.

I've been so bad hormonally, thought it couldn't hurt to see what you thought.

I was found to have very low T, low ferritin and vit.d and am being treated for those. He started me on a 1% bioidentical cream for the T.

My thyroid results were:

TSH 0.726 on a scale from 0.450-4.500
T4 5.4 on a scale from 4.5-12.0
T3 36% on a scale from 24-39
Free Thyroxine Index 1.9 on a scale from 1.2-4.9

Thyroid antibodies
Peroxidase 15 on a scale from 0-34
Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 on a scale from 0-40

RPR non reactive

Any other results that you need?

My gyn who is also my surgeon said i'm fine in estrogen and progesterone and thyroid. I'm 44.

I can feel that i'm getting ready to go into hormonal hell again this month ...I feel i have PMDD, but refer to it as terrible PMS for short.

Thank you so much,
Salty

 
Old 07-16-2009, 07:58 AM   #2
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Please don't apologize for posting here. That's what this forum is for, to help others as we were all helped before.

It would be very helpful to get some additional bloodwork done, specifically the Free T3 and Free T4. Your TSH is somewhat low but this isn't a good tool to use to diagnose hypothyroidism.

What are your symptoms? Are they hypo?

Low ferritin and Vit D often go with hyopthyroidism. So it's likely that's what is going on but the free T labs will confirm this. I always recommend a saliva cortisol test as well to check the adrenals. Adrenal health is as important as the thyroid as all these parts of the endocrine system go hand-in-hand.

Post your results when you get them and we'll go over them with you.

 
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Old 07-19-2009, 01:14 PM   #3
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

thank you for helping me...please forgive my ignorance w/all this...i'm looking at the test results...the T3 and T4 that i posted were not sufficient? There are other tests for these i should get?

Is there something on these lab results that i didn't post that would help you?

My symptoms seem to be PMS or PMDD related. I start feeling emotional, crying, depressed about 7-10 days before my cycle begins and then into my cycle.

It's strange though because this month, it wasn't half as bad. I'm wondering what the difference was..whether the T cream is starting to work or my ferritin is getting higher or the vit. d or what?

This time, thank goodness, i had a few days of the symptoms and then my cycle started and i'm not as bad. Another difference this month is my primary gave me samples of the migraine med frova (which is specifically for PMS migraines). I used that every night for 4 nights before my cycle (because i always get bad headaches, too) and i'm thinking that may have something to do w/it.

I'm 2 days into my cycle and didn't feel quite as good today so i took a small amount of provigil which i use when i have to function and i had a migraine as well, but took a small amount of excedrin and it's okay now.

The migraine meds help me sleep as well so i try to take them at night.

I am only being retested for Dehydroepiandrosterone Sulfate, Vit. D, 25-Hydroxy, Androstenedione, Ferritin, Iron and TIBC.

Should i call my gyn. and ask for other tests? I am going to the lab this week w/the lab slip.

All i know about cortisol is my gyn. has been saying for years that i get my fibroids and cysts from stress that is released by the stress hormone cortisol. I have been hearing that word for so long.

He did no saliva testing on me and i even asked him about it and he said there's no need, blood work is better, but we weren't talking about adrenals, we were talking hormones.

What should i do regarding the saliva cortisol test? Do i ask for this from him before i get my labs done?

Besides the PMS symptoms, i have been suffering from deep depression and anxiety on and off for 28 years. I have treated w/many meds, mainly SSRIs.

That is why i asked him to put me on the bioidentical T cream 1%. I thought it may be what i have been lacking for so long and thought it would help my mood.

I am grateful that you are helping me. I want to get to the bottom of this...I don't really want anything to be wrong w/my thyroid, but i want the truth.

The thyroid results seemed a little low to me, too.

Please let me know what I should do from here.

Thank you, mcaimless!

hugs,
Salty

Last edited by Administrator; 08-23-2009 at 10:12 PM.

 
Old 07-19-2009, 01:43 PM   #4
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Some others here are better versed on the whole sex hormone thing than I. But these hormones are all tied in together and need to be addressed as a whole. If your thyroid isn't working right there's a whole cascade of other things that will get out of whack. Often once the thyroid is normalized the sex hormones will get balanced out as well.

Ask your doctor to order a Free T3 and Free T4. These are the best tests because they actually measure how much thyroid hormones are circulating in your blood. They both need to be near or top of range for you to be euthyroid. Just having "in range" results does not mean you are "normal".

Saliva cortisol testing is something you'll have to order on your own if your doc isn't on board. Some think that an am and pm serum cortisol will give good results but that's up for debate still. I've found the Canary Club to be the best place to order diurnal saliva cortisol tests. If you are low in cortisol you will not be able to benefit from any thyroid meds.

Your menstrual and mood problems could very well be from hypothyroidism but you really need to get the right tests to confirm or rule it out.

 
Old 07-19-2009, 02:04 PM   #5
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Okay, dear, so the Free Thyroxine Index w/TSH, T4 and T3 is not correct, right?

Bear w/me, please. I'm sorry for not understanding. I thought i asked him for free
T3 and T4 and i'm looking at the results...it must have to read

Free T3 and Free T4 not what i have?

Thank you,
Salty

 
Old 07-19-2009, 02:47 PM   #6
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

This test ~ T4 5.4 on a scale from 4.5-12.0 ~ is a total T4 measure, both bound and free T4. It's better to know just the free portion, that which is unbound to protein. Thus, you need to specify that you want a free T4 measurement.

This test ~ T3 36% on a scale from 24-39 ~ has nothing at all to do with your T3 measure, either bound or free. It's a measurement of the binding protein and is useless for thyroid diagnosis.

This test ~ Free Thyroxine Index 1.9 on a scale from 1.2-4.9 ~ is a mathematical calculation of free T4, only an estimate of actual free T4. It's an outdated, bogus test. The result is arrived at by using the total T4 and the T3 uptake. Disregard all 3 tests. They're outdated and plain dumb, since a direct accurate measurement of free T4 is easily done and far more revealing.

So, do as Mcaimless says and insist on free T4 and free T3 tests. And while you're at it, be sure to get tests for TPO and Tg antibodies. These antibodies are responsible for most cases of hypothyroidism.

Hope that cleared up your test confusion.

Edit: Woops... I see you did have antibodies tests. Both are technically negative, but you still could have autoimmune thyroid disease, since the test has an error rate of about 20%. In short, having negative results is no guarantee you don't have AI thyroiditis.

Last edited by midwest1; 07-19-2009 at 02:50 PM.

 
Old 07-19-2009, 02:58 PM   #7
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Okay, midwest1, thank you. I will get the Free T3 and the Free T4.

I will call my gyn.--talk to his assistant and ask her to add it to the lab slip. She will have to redo the slip and add them on there and mail it to me, but I had sent her a self-addressed stamped envelope to do that w/the slip i have now, so I don't see I can't just do that again and why either one of them would care.

I hope she will do that. I don't know what she or he will think, but i will do that tomorrow.

Oh, here's the thing, what should i do, i won't have the results until i see him and i'm going to want to go over them w/you before i see him.

Do i call to get those 2 results? will they read them over the phone to me?

I appreciate your help...both of you.

Salty

Last edited by salty; 07-19-2009 at 03:07 PM. Reason: added

 
Old 07-19-2009, 03:29 PM   #8
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

You have a legal right to a copy of your lab results. Most Drs offices have a policy that the doctor has to sign off on them before giving to the patient. When the office calls to let you know your results are in ask them to either fax them to you (and if they require special paperwork to release, get it faxed and sign and return) or you can walk into the office and request the report. Some offices will charge for the copying. Also bear in mind, some offices won't call to let you know the results are in so it's up to you to call them and ask for them after about a week. I always like to get my labs before going in to discuss with the Dr so I have time to look at the results at my lesure and make notes and questions for the Doc.

If your doc is a good one he/she won't give you a hard time about adding the tests you want (and you might even be able to educate as to how useless some of the tests that have been ordered are, per Midwest above )

 
Old 07-19-2009, 04:13 PM   #9
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

thank you. I moved my appointment back and requested the Free T3 and Free T4 in a letter to my gyn's assistant.

Hopefully there will be no problem ordering the additional tests and I will post the results when I get them in a few weeks.

When i go to see him, I will also ask about the saliva cortisol test.

Thank you both for you help. I appreciate it a lot.

Salty

Last edited by Administrator; 08-23-2009 at 10:13 PM. Reason: added & changed

 
Old 07-27-2009, 11:33 AM   #10
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

I live in Portland Oregon & the medical college here (and many other state health colleges) are relizing the "normal" levels on charts for thyroid are WRONG! I researched Hypothyroid problems on the internet & many thyroid sites say the same thing. Esp. w/ HYPOthyroidism. They say 80% of people are either misdiagnosed or told "nothing is wrong".
I found a doctor who TREATS MY SYMPTOMS...not what charts say! (I was freezing cold in 78 degree weather...they said "everything is normal...go away! THAT IS NOT NORMAL!) I went to another doctor who put me on thryoid meds & I have felt allot better! My reg. doctor is upset saying my test are now TOO HIGH, but FOR ME things are better!

Drop charts & find a doctor who LISTENS to YOU & YOUR BODY SIGNALS! YOUR symptoms! YOU know what is "normal" FOR YOU!

("average" means to take all numbers & add them together then divide by the number of numbers. So if you have 2 people & one has a "normal" at 25 and another is "normal" at 75 then the "average normal" would be 50...TOO HIGH FOR ONE & TOO LOW FOR THE OTHER!
Everyone is unique & different. Treat YOUR symptoms...not what the chart/book says!)

 
Old 07-27-2009, 10:32 PM   #11
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Hi Salty,

PMS or PMDD does not necessarly mean your hormones or thyroid are off. I had it really bad and hemoraghed (Sp. I'm tired, sorry). I thought for sure something was wrong with my hormone levels, they checked them so often! However, it can be a sign of perimenopause and that is usally what it is. Your numbers look good, so far. The free T3 and free T4 is still a good idea to get. I bet you are just heading down that slope to menopause, sorry It takes about 10 years for this to all come to a halt and it can be a miserable, hard, 10 years for some. I was having the same problems along with vertigo around my cycles. In fact the only time I ever felt good since the day I started my period was when I was pregnant and in my last 2 trimesters. I never felt better, my body worked great and I always felt even keeled and generally good. Anyways, some woman end up having many issues during this perimenopause phase and many things happen like my hemoraghing and fibroids etc. For me it became life or death since a woman can bleed to death within 20 minutes from her uterus. I was SO anemic they were scared to do surgery! Now, I am menopause and even though I take the same dose every day I can't say I feel as great as I did pregnant, but I sure have more quality of life now.

Women have to deal with so much when it comes to their hormones and the facts are...........doctors really don't understand them much at all. We have come a long way though!!

Your anemia and vit D have nothing to do with why your have PMDD, IMO. However, if you are having heavy or frequent periods that could be why you are anemic. Vit D is more bone related and they are finding over 50% of the population are deficiant (sp). You could have joint pain or rickets, called malcenia in adults with low D. Low T for sure can cause exhaution, whether some providers believe it or not. But PMDD? I am not sure. In my endeavers hormonaly, I found that progesterone is the culprit. It is the hormone that makes you feel like CRAP. Estrogen is your feel good hormone. If you are not getting enought estrogen prior to your period (which is normal) and your estrogen drops to low, you can have PMS/PMDD. That is why they put women on the pill for it. Progesterone is the bleeding hormone and we need it to help us stop bleeding, thank goodness I don't have a uterus cause that hormone messes with me!!

You could try a natural over the counter etrogen prior to your cycles to see if it helps. I tell everyone this who's providers refuse to help them. They just don't get it! You could try something like estroven. Check it out.

Keep us posted!

IMO, AM cortisol testing is the best way to test adrenals but you would be having a lot more issues than just PMDD from loss of adreanals (addison's). Is your skin turning dark and you are not out in the sun? Do you have pigment issues on your gums and fingernails? Do you go into "crisis" where you vomit and need steriods?

Have you been checked for autoimmune?

Your gyn is your surgeon? Gyn surgeon? And what has he/she done surgery on you for?

Last edited by kris45; 07-27-2009 at 10:34 PM.

 
Old 07-28-2009, 10:10 PM   #12
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Thank you for your long post, kris, I appreciate it.

The last test results showed i was low in ferritin, vit. D and testosterone, but my gyn does not think i am anemic.

I will post my Free T3 and 4 as soon as i get them.

What did you mean when you said you "take the same dose?" What are you taking? Are you talking about iron?

I'm hoping you are right. I don't want there to be anything else wrong w/me besides what already showed up.

I was having heavy periods before the last fibroid was removed, but they aren't now.

My skin in not turning dark and i have none of the other things you mentioned.

My gyn. has been my surgeon for as long as I can remember. He has removed cysts and fibroids.

I will post my results as soon as I get them.

Thank you sooo much for you help.

Hugs,
Salty

 
Old 07-28-2009, 10:13 PM   #13
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Thank you kaywill. I agree.

I have to have a long talk with my gyn. when i see him mid-Aug.

I'm glad you are feeling better.

Salty

 
Old 07-29-2009, 07:10 AM   #14
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

Adrenal fatigue is not the same as Addison's. Most doctors look for either Addison's or Cushing's diseases when they test cortisol and one AM test will not see adrenal fatigue. You need a diurnal saliva test to see where your cortisol levels fall during different times of the day and night. They should be higher in the am and lower in the PM. * Disallowed website and related information removed by hb-mod, moderator *

I've had a lot of GYN problems for years and have lost my uterus and ovaries as a result of dysfunctional utering bleeding and complex ovarian cysts. I honestly believe it was my thyroid dysfunction that caused this to happen as the symptoms all cooresponded with depression, weight gain and a host of other hypo symptoms about 15 years ago. Of course my TSH was always "normal" so I never received treatment.

I think that it's important to try to get our thyroid and adrenal situation evaluated and under control before we try to normalize the sex hormones. Without proper function of these two very important glands everything else is going to suffer and be out of whack. Adrenals are the most overlooked reason why some don't do well on thyroid hormones. If you've been hypo for a long period of time the adrenals try to take up the slack in your metaboloic dysfunction by producing more cortisol than they normally would. This leads to adrenal fatigue. Cortisol is necessary to transfer the active thyroid hormone T3 from the blood to the cells so if you are deficient in cortisol your thyroid hormone replacement isn't going to work. So the idea is to check and suppliment the adrenals if they are low and then once they are normalized start on the thyroid hormones and get them up to levels where the hypos symptoms are gone. Then it's good to check your sex hormones for any estrogen dominance or other issues. This is all assuming, of course that you are hypothyroid, which we don't know because we haven't gotten the right testing back.

Are you supplimenting your D and low ferritin? These, along with low B12 tend to go hand-in-hand with hypothyroidism and must be brought up to normal levels. I suggest D3 over the D2 that your doc might want to try to prescribe. I currently take 6000 iu of D3 and some recommend up to 10,000 iu a day if you are deficient. Vitamin D is an important part of hormonal balance as well as keeping our bones healthy. Check out the Vitamin D Council on lots of great D info. B12 lab ranges are not a good guide for your levels, the low end of of range should be about 550 and it's better to get these levels up into the 800s.

Just some more pieces of the puzzle for you to look into. Hope you get some good lab testing done soon so you can get a better look at your thyroid function.

Last edited by hb-mod; 08-23-2009 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Please don't post disallowed websites as per Posting Policy. Thanks.

 
Old 07-29-2009, 02:06 PM   #15
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Re: Does Anyone See a Problem w/These Thyroid Results?

more great info, thank you. I am still waiting for the lab slip to arrive so i can get my tests done including the Free T4 and Free T3 (that I requested thanks to you).

I will have to call tomorrow and see what the hold up is. I expected it by now.

I will take all the information on this thread to my gyn in mid-August and i will post my results when i get them.

I'm grateful for your knowledge and for you posting,
Salty

Last edited by Administrator; 08-23-2009 at 10:14 PM.

 
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