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Old 04-15-2010, 06:08 AM   #1
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CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

I started synthorid in October 2009 (due to low readings on thyroid) I have an underactive thyriod. I was experiecing exhaustion, weight gain, lethargy, could not get out of bed...aggitated, anxious...etc...

Readings in October 2009 (on NO medication)
THYROID STIMULATING (0.27 - 4.20) mIU/L - 2.55

FREE T4 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L - 11.0

Readings in November 2009 (started .025 synthroid) - results of blood work below:

THYROID STIMULATING (see ranges above) 2.47

FREE T4 - 11.8

Readings in December 2009 (upped medication .05 then retested)

THYROID STIMULAING - (sorry do not have this one..?)

FREE T 4 - 13

Readings April 2010 (upped medication to .075)

THYROID STIMULATING - 0.39

FREE T4 - 19.0

Here is the story: WHEN I was first put on the meds back in october 2009, I felt great within 12 or so days...my body felt great, I felt so energetic, i noticed weight loss ..etc. I am a very active person, I am srue I would have gained 20 pounds if I did not WORK within the fitness industry. The five pounds or 8 that creeped up, went away, I felt alive and great!

BUT then about a month later....I had a downer, and it seemed that the meds stopped working....my body started to slowly get tired again...etc..symptoms returning...so doc upped the dose....did nothing, so he upped it again....

SO Now I am on .075....and I am getting and experiecing rapid heartbead, sweats, getting insomnia in the middle of the night....BUT!! I have weight gain again, I am exhausted all day long, very weak no energy,iimpatient...etc!!

SO what is going on?? I see my readings, and my FREE T4 zoomed up to 19 a huge jump from 13!

I would think if I went to the other end (being over active thyriod) I would have weight loss??) but I have gained weight?? like the 5-7 pounds like I did in the beginning??!!

Please note I am very fit, active and eat well...this weight gain is not from overeating...being lazy...etc...there is something off within my body, I can feel it??

SO is it possible I am not absorbing the synthroid??

I do not see my doc for another two weeks.....ugh!! ANYONE, canyou help me, I am asking please if you have advice I really need it.

I was reading about EFRA?? is this something I could try?? HELP!
please
(Erfa Thyroid from Canada)

thanks so much, kind regards.
Peace
Bluetou

 
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:13 AM   #2
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

When I went hyper on Synthroid, I had all of those symptoms that you are experiencing, and thought shouldn't I be losing weight, but I didn't.

Maybe you're getting too much hormone now?

I would call your doctor and see about getting new blood tests.

Hope you feel better soon

 
Old 04-15-2010, 12:10 PM   #3
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

I just wanted to add that you need to get a Ft3 test. It is such a very important test, and is the active hormone. T4 is only a storage hormone that must convert to active T3.

Some people can't convert T4 to T3.

Also adrenals, B-12, Vitamin D, ferritin need to be tested. If these are low it will interfere with proper thyroid regulation.

 
Old 04-15-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

Thanks so much for your reply, how do they test adrenals? I have had my adrenals tested through a naturopath, and they always show out of wack (through a urine sample)...but never through the doctor with blood work....so how do you test adrenals?

they do not test t3's here anymore....ugh...not sure what to do...

I see my naturopath tomorrow....is there anything natural I could go on?

ugh..?

thanks for the info!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady50 View Post
I just wanted to add that you need to get a Ft3 test. It is such a very important test, and is the active hormone. T4 is only a storage hormone that must convert to active T3.

Some people can't convert T4 to T3.

Also adrenals, B-12, Vitamin D, ferritin need to be tested. If these are low it will interfere with proper thyroid regulation.

 
Old 04-16-2010, 08:20 AM   #5
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

You appear to be overmedicated at your last labs, based on your high-normal FT4, low-normal TSH and - most importantly - symptoms. A slight reduction in your med would be warranted. Splitting the difference between .05 (which was too little) and .075 (which is too much) is .0625 mg. I don't know if that strength is manufactured, but you can accomplish the same dose by just skipping one tablet a week. That's frequently done and would be worth a try, IMO.

Last edited by midwest1; 04-16-2010 at 08:21 AM.

 
Old 04-17-2010, 02:01 AM   #6
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

Thanks so much for your input.

I am so overwhelmed right now, and this week has been a whirlwind for me, with emotions and feelign overwhelmed...I feel as though I am at the end of a mounting cliff read to fall.....

I finally called my doctor (talked to secretary)....as mentioned I can nto get in to see my doctor till end of april (30). I asked for the doc to call my pharmachy to lower my dose....he did to .050.

Your idea sound great to try and get my dose .0625, I will mention this to my doctor when I get to see him end of April.

ONE thing that I have found out since yesterday is my blood work results, I had my cortisol tested...and results:

cortisol - am (morning) - 620.8 normal range (171-536)

This explains a lot~no wonder I am feeling as IF I AM HAVING a nervous break down!

Would you believe THE DOCTOR has yet to call me on these results...!! I continue to call his secretary to have them photocopy my results so I can get copies and review them....then research them to better my health.

I met with my naturopath yesterday...and brought her my bloodwork. She did an adrenal test on me (urine)...and I am borderline adrenal fatigue!

This is why I am experiencing all these mixed up symptoms. The higher dose of thyroid pill is causing heart racing, sweats...etc...and the adrenal fatigue, causing weight gain around the waist, exhuasted...etc...THAT is why even though my dose went so high (I SHOULD have been feeling a "HIGH THYRIOD" feeling....but because my adreanal are out of wack....they are providing oppositive symptoms.

Anyway....she wants me to do an adrenal supplement. (it has to do with the PIG HORMONE) has anyone done this?

Any feedback much appreciated.

I do hope I can get this undercontrol.

DO you know how long it will take for me to my symptoms back to normal now that my thyriod dose has been lowered?

Thank you so much for your time

kind regards,
bluetou


QUOTE=midwest1;4226958]You appear to be overmedicated at your last labs, based on your high-normal FT4, low-normal TSH and - most importantly - symptoms. A slight reduction in your med would be warranted. Splitting the difference between .05 (which was too little) and .075 (which is too much) is .0625 mg. I don't know if that strength is manufactured, but you can accomplish the same dose by just skipping one tablet a week. That's frequently done and would be worth a try, IMO.[/QUOTE]

 
Old 04-17-2010, 08:09 AM   #7
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

[Calling Javelina... Can you help here?}

There's no doubt in your case that adrenal trouble is causing major problems with your thyroid treatment. That much I know about adrenals, but not much else... except that saliva testing is the most accurate for the condition. I bet you can get your naturopath to order it for you.

All of the thyroid medications on the market expressly state in their prescibing info that adrenal dysfunction has to be addressed before thyroid correction is attempted. MDs who ignore it should have their licenses revoked. Don't let yours ignore it.

I don't know about the "pig hormone" for adrenal fatigue. I think the usual treatment is Cortef or similar hydrocortisone product. Maybe there is a natural version of that which comes from pigs. Again, I don't know.

 
Old 04-18-2010, 03:52 AM   #8
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

THanks so much for your info. Unfortunately my doctor (I know it)...will not acknowledge my adrenals...he has yet to call me and say a thing to me about these results. Although I am seeing him at the end of April (30th)...I made this appointment, he never called to follow up with me on the test results or nothing.
VERY dissappointing.

I do not think he will do a darn thing about my adrenals....I mentioned this to him before in teh past when the naturopath did an adrneal test on me and it showed my adrenals were out of wack...he kind of just rolled his eyes...that was it...

IF I do get my adrenals treated, is there a prescription he woudl give me for this?

I am so confused.....

Thanks so much...
peace
blue

 
Old 04-18-2010, 10:52 AM   #9
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

Sorry I missed this thread, hope I can give you a few more ideas to look into.

With your really high am cortisol levels it shows that you are in an early stage of adrenal fatigue, where the adrenals produce too much cortisol to try to compensate for your under-producing thyroid. This dysregulation will cause most, if not all of your new symptoms. Also high cortisol will interfere with your conversion of T4 to T3 and I'm willing to bet that if you had an RT3 level done now your RT3 levels would be very high. RT3 is what T4 will convert to when high cortisol is present and this incactive hormone will bind to your T3 receptor sites instead of T3. It seems to be pretty common for some to have adrenal problems when started on thyroid hormones, especially T4. It can stress the system and cortisol is a stress hormone.

Your main problem, quite frankly, is that you don't have a doctor who has a clue about this. Most mainstream docs are trained to prescribe T4 and that's that for thyroid treatment. They don't do proper testing to monitor your progress (like the free T3 test that was mentioned before as well as RT3, saliva cortisol testing, ferrtin, vitamin D and B12 levels). If you have vitamin and or mineral deficiencies, dysfunctional adrenals or simply are not an efficient converter of T4 to T3 then your hormone replacement therapy won't work well. This is usually when these docs roll their eyes, tell you it's all in your head and start prescribing antidepressants and statins for your lingering signs and symptoms of hypothryoidism. Your only option is to educate yourself (like you are doing by coming to this forum) and ask for the right tests, learn how to interpret them, and demand treatment that works. If your current doc isn't willing or able to help then you will need to look elsewhere for one who will.

See about getting a diurnal saliva cortisl test for yourself. You can order one online if you don't have a doc who has them. without proper testing it's impossible to tell what kind of treatment your adrenals might need. You may need to try another type of hormone replacement, one that contains T3 as well as T4, such as desiccated thyroid (Nature-throid, Erfa Thyroid, or compounded desiccated thyroid. I don't recommend Armour because it's reformulation has left so many hypo and it's a crap shoot if it will work for you or not. Erfa is IMHO the best as it doesn't have cellulose fillers and is inexpensive and easy to order online with a Dr's prescription). You must get your ferritin and vitamin levels tested because these are often too low and without getting them in the right range you won't have much luck with your hormone replacement, no matter what you use.

I hope this helps!

 
Old 04-19-2010, 02:01 AM   #10
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

WOW!javelina I can not thank you enough for your post. (and midwest1) I have printed off copies of both your posts....thanks so much....now I just need to be proactive and get myself better.

They will not do a t3 reading. My friend is a labtech, and they stopped doing t3 readings years ago, and it is not a test they do now, even if requested. very frustrating.

So this is what I am presently doing....can you tell me if I am on the right track....

I know you mentioned Efra ...I have heard of this, I see my doctor in two weeks and I will ask him about this. Until then....this is what I am doing

My doctor lowered my thyroid meds via A TELEHPONE request from me...and I am now on synthroid .050 (dose was JUST lowered down from .075)....my naturopath wants me to start on a GLANDULAR (it is from the pig bovine)....I receive this supplement sometimes today, being delivered. This is suppose to help with my adrenals.

AM I a dreamer if I believe that this adrenal glandular supplement is going to help me along with the lower dose of synthroid?

If I find a change with the adrenal glandular.....does this mean EFRA is something that would work for me?

You mentioned my t3 hormone and how the synthroid just does not cut it for they thyriod when this is the case....so is it the EFRA that will balance this?

It is so confusing...but I am learning, and I thank you both so much for your guided advice (((HUGS)) thank you! I am at the end of my wits end...but thankfully for your support I see light....at the end of the tunnel. thankyou.

Peace
Blue

 
Old 04-19-2010, 08:20 AM   #11
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

Is there another lab you can use to get the free T3 testing as well as RT3? you can also order these labs online yourself if you don't mind paying out of pocket (if you're in the US).

What exactly is the bovine or porcine adrenal formula your ND is suggesting? If it's the one put out by Wilson it's likely pretty useless as it's had all the hormones removed- a complete waste of money. Also without saliva testing it's not a good idea to treat adrenals, not everyone agrees that cortisol replacement is effective if your levels are consistantly high. You may need Seriphos (serine phosphate) or phosphatidylserine to bring down your cortisol levels instead of bringing them up more with a cortisol containing substance (usually hydrocortisone is used to treat low adrenal output and some animal adrenal preparations do contain cortisol). Also supplimenting magnesium citrate to bowel tolerance can help with dysfunctional adrenals. Again, testing is very important before treatment in this case and if you start taking any cortisol containing products you will have to discontinue for two weeks before getting a saliva coritsol test to get accurate results.

Erfa thryoid is desiccated porcine thyroid, very similar to how Armour used to be before they reformulated it and made it ineffective for many users. It's made in Canada and you can order through an online Canadian pharmacy with a US doctor's prescription (this is legal--the FDA granted permission when the shortages of desiccated thyroid in the US became so bad). You doc will need to write for "Erfa" or "Thyroid", or even "Armour" and they will fill it. It contains both T3 and T4 and many who don't do well on T4-only do much better on desiccated thyroid. It's been in sucessful use for over 100 years for hypothyroidism. Unfortunately many doctors do not write for it as they've been heavily influenced by the US pharmaceutical companies and told that desiccated thyroid is unsafe, unregulated, or outmoded. None of these accusations are true and there are no studies to back them up. In fact the manufacturers of synthetic T4 are not at all interested in seeing any studies comparing the two come to light because they are well aware that their product will very likely come out looking the worse for it. So again, you will need to find a physician who will prescribe, or perhaps your naturopath can do this for you.

Sorry this is so complicated and confusing. To try to simplify, you must have good adrenal function to be able to utilize thyroid hormone replacement. Testing with saliva cortisol is the best way to ascertain this. You also need to have adequate levels of ferritin, vitamin D and B12 as deficiencies in these also interfere with the synthesis of thyroid hormones so again, testing is needed. Most do better on desiccated thryoid if they are not able to efficiently convert T4 to T3 because desiccated has T3 as well as T4. Getting a free T3 test will determine if you are able to convert well and can tell you much more about your status.

 
Old 04-20-2010, 02:12 AM   #12
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

THank you once again! I am feeling more confident in reading your last post on how to better cope and go about changes. Thank you.

I am living in Canada....so again I will look into the T3 Rt3 testing....I know I asked my friend who is a lab tech, and she said there is no T3 testing...I did not ask about RT3, I will ask today.

The glandual I am on is from Canada, made out of porcine bovine pure, (from Calgary). It is a reputable company, and my own naturopath uses the product. With that being said....I must admit I am a bit leary of starting anything like this. But am willing to do anything to feel better and get out of this funk.

I did read you mentioned in your previous post, and this one (and I meant to disclose that I do have an underlying health issue) that I have been battling and have gotten under control the last year. I have IC (interstitial cystits). Where I believe my adrenals, and thyriod are also stemming from. Two years ago I was given a medication I was highly allergic to.....almost died....the drug did havoc on my body and did damage internally.....outcome IC. It took me almost a year to a year and half to get this under control and calm. The naturopath saved me the doctors only wanted to prescribe elmiron and pain killers.

Long story short...I am very sensitive to many acidic properties. So taking b12 is a no no, vitamen c a no no. Eating anything acidicis a no no, oranges, ...etc.

SO I am a bit (hands tied)....on that one.

The saliva test...I will have to look into this. I have also read where they draw blood, four times a day to test cortisol levels...etc. I see my doc next week, so I will reserach the saliva test deeper, ask my naturopath about it, thank you!

I so appreciate your email, it has enlightened me and I feel more confident that I will get over this hump. I agree I need to get tests done before taking supplements in order to find teh root of the problem.

Thanks so much your knowledge has helped so much, I can not thank you enough.

Kind regards
blue
peace

 
Old 04-20-2010, 07:24 AM   #13
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

I guess I'm unsure what "porcine bovine" suppliment you are taking. Is it dried adrenals or thyroid or both from both pigs (porcine) and cows (bovine)? Some do ok on them but most find them to be too weak to help much. It also depends on whether or not this is an adrenal or thyroid product as to what hormones they contain.

As for the vitamin B12, if you are deficient (a lab value <550) you may need to consider getting the shots if you can't handle the lozenges. Pernicious anemia is nothing to sneeze at and must be treated if it's there. Also ferritin levels have to be looked at. Of course vitamin C is good for adrenals so not being able to take that is a drawback.

The four times daily serum cortisol would be fine if you can set it up. Most are not willing to go in for four draws and it also depends on whether or not needles make you anxious. Any anxiety will spike cortisol levels and give a false-high reading. That's why saliva testing in the comfort of your own home is so good. I think the major saliva testers will ship tests to Canada.

I'm glad this was helpful for you. It's a lot to take in but it's extremely important for us to take control of our own health, expecially when it comes to thyroid, where so many doctors are woefully uninformed.

 
Old 04-21-2010, 04:19 AM   #14
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

Well, the adrenal glandular that I am taking is this:

ADRENAL LYOPHILIZED ACTIVE GLANDULAR - made in Calgary Canada

GLANDULAR tissue can be a rich source of nutrients, enzymes, hormone precursors, and other factors that support specific gland related metobolism and physiological function.

1 capsule adrenal tissue (porcine) - 250 mg
Non medicinal ingredient - water gelatin

SO above is the glandular supplement my naturopath wants me to go on to help with my adrenals, along with clearing up thyriod. She feels if I get teh adrenals underl control, my thyroid issue will be a non issue.

I will have to look into the vit b12 shot, get the doc to test my blood work (check levels of ferritin and b12)....and then go from there. From what I understand some IC patients can take the shot, others can nto tolerate, so it will be an experiement for me to go there. (and risk flaring)....so I will have to first get the bloodwork done to insure that my levels are actually low.

I see my doc next week, and will ask about the salivia test, along with my naturopath...I am curious to see where that will go.

I must admit with the change in meds, gone down from a .075 to a .050 in synthroid has helped decrease my rapid heart beat, and anxiousness.

But I still have fatigue and exhaustion....which is again adrenal and low thyroid. WHICH brings me back to the fact that the synthroid is not doing its job....which in fact the ERFA may helpe me.

THanks so much for your advice..your time and energy placed into guiding me with your knowledge, you do not know how grateful I am for you taking the time and posting. I know how busy life can be, so thank you.

I THINK I am on the right track. I pray that I am.

Peace
Blue


Quote:
Originally Posted by javelina View Post
I guess I'm unsure what "porcine bovine" suppliment you are taking. Is it dried adrenals or thyroid or both from both pigs (porcine) and cows (bovine)? Some do ok on them but most find them to be too weak to help much. It also depends on whether or not this is an adrenal or thyroid product as to what hormones they contain.

As for the vitamin B12, if you are deficient (a lab value <550) you may need to consider getting the shots if you can't handle the lozenges. Pernicious anemia is nothing to sneeze at and must be treated if it's there. Also ferritin levels have to be looked at. Of course vitamin C is good for adrenals so not being able to take that is a drawback.

The four times daily serum cortisol would be fine if you can set it up. Most are not willing to go in for four draws and it also depends on whether or not needles make you anxious. Any anxiety will spike cortisol levels and give a false-high reading. That's why saliva testing in the comfort of your own home is so good. I think the major saliva testers will ship tests to Canada.

I'm glad this was helpful for you. It's a lot to take in but it's extremely important for us to take control of our own health, expecially when it comes to thyroid, where so many doctors are woefully uninformed.

 
Old 04-21-2010, 02:57 PM   #15
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Re: CONFUSED with THYROID readings?? I need help? meds do nto seem to be working?

a-ha! just received my letter from the endocrinolgist (i see him in JUNE) been waiting 6 months to see him!! on his requistion it has requested FREE t3!!!! I am so excited!!

Just wanted to let you know....
peace
blue

 
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