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Old 03-29-2002, 06:23 PM   #1
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Check out these results ?!

Okay ... I need some input... I got my test results back but am waiting for my doctor's appointment.
I am a hypo patient who has been trying to tell the doctor for a long time that I feel hyper symptoms (especially concerned about heart/blood pressure, hair loss, poor sleep, and a weird overall feeling). The bloodwork showed:
TSH: <.35 range .35-5.50
T4 free 0.62 range .61-1.76
T3 free 29 range 24-39
What do you all think? I'm still gaining weight, retaining water, losing hair, and obviously tired (probably from running on "speed").

thanks.
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:54 PM   #2
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Actually, my opinion is that you are still hypo. I know your TSH is bordering on what MIGHT indicate hyper, but TSH alone doesn't tell the whole picture, and I am afraid that if you go by TSH you are going to feel miserable much longer than if you go by the actual levels of thyroid hormones.

Your T4 is only one point above the bottom of the range. VERY few people feel good at this range, and many people at this range would be losing hair.
Have you had a TOTAL T4 test done? It is possible that you have enough thyroid hormones, but that they are bound to proteins in your blood and thus the reason your Free T4 is so low, and how your TSH is so low. I doubt it, but this is a possibility.

Your Free T3 is just barely above the bottom quarter of the range, which is normal in a hypo whose T4 is as low as yours. Your body is converting a relatively large amount of your T4 to T3, which is why the T3 is closer to the middle of the range than the T4.

Neither your T3 nor yout T4 are in a place that would cause heart palps or high blood pressure from having too much (ie you are NOT hyper). It is not unusual, though to have these symptoms when they are too low, as I think is the case with you.

Something that happens when you are hypo for a long period of time is that your adrenal glands, which normally help your body cope with stress by producing cortisol, get worn out and can't properly do this any more. When it gets to that point, then the adrenal gland start producing adrenaline to compensate. Adrenaline cause heart palps and raises your blood pressure. You said you were concerned about your heart and blood pressure, right? There is your likely culprit.

A symptom of not enough cortisol is water retention. This is also a symptom of hypo and when you have both at the same time, it is inevitable that you will retain water. Drinking plenty of water (2 quarts a day or more) may help, especially if your normal befverages are coffee, tea, and sodas, which can make you retain water also.

It would be in your interest to have an AM cortisol test and ACTH Stim test to check your adrenals before you go on any thyroid meds, just to be safe. Even people low-normal cortisol and ACTH STim results can have complications from going on thyroid meds if you don't supplement with a small dose of cortisol (usually 5 mg 4 times a day).

Please, for your sake, talk to your doctor about SECONDARY hypothyroidism (your numbers indicate a standard case of secondary hypo), and the possibility of a pituitary disorder (the cause of secondary hypo).

[This message has been edited by Meep (edited 03-29-2002).]<p>[This message has been edited by Meep (edited 03-29-2002).]

 
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Old 03-29-2002, 08:50 PM   #3
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Re: Check out these results ?!

THANK YOU, Meep!
I am going to request the tests you suggested. Thank you for giving such a thorough response. Just to clarify, I was diagnosed hypo several years ago. I was on Synthroid for a few years and have been on Thyrolar for the past year. So, I'm already on medication. I'm terribly frustrated. I'm glad I posted though. <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">
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Old 04-02-2002, 05:06 PM   #4
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Well, despite my best attempts to get through to the doctor, he was abrupt as usual. Said it's impossible to have both hyper and hypo symptoms ... "Make up my mind". LOL. He wouldn't even hear me out. Wants to lower my meds. <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif"> I never even got to request the tests <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif">
I am sooooooooooo frustrated and sooooo tired of waiting and waiting to get this resolved. I will probably seek a second opinion but I don't want to wait any longer. It's just awful.
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Old 04-02-2002, 05:07 PM   #5
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Re: Check out these results ?!

board error -- double posted.<p>[This message has been edited by ENUFISENUF (edited 04-02-2002).]

 
Old 04-02-2002, 05:43 PM   #6
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Re: Check out these results ?!

*HUG* Sorry your doc isn't a good listener. I believe that with the right meds, you will feel better, but I feel that the doctor is going the wrong way with it.

Some natural things to try in the mean time:

Maca can help stimulate your hypothalamus and pituitary into action whereby your thyrod and adrenals will picku up the slack a little. Thisdoesn't work for everyone, but is worth a try.

Valerian Root is a naturallly relaxing herb that hlep me with occasional anxiety and calme me so I can sleep sometime if I am too wound up. It doesn't make you drowsy directly, but works like a very mild muscle relaxer. If you are tired, it will help you sleep. If you are not tired, but just anxious, it will calm your nerves and make you feel less tense. I read of a European study once where drivers were tested with and without taking Valerian Root and there was no statistical difference between the scores on the tests.

Kava is also popular among herbal circles for its anti-anxiety effects. I have taken it as a relaant as wel, though it acts differently.

Maybe some of those things will help you through this rough time... I hope SOMETHING works for you since your doctor doesn't appear to.

 
Old 04-02-2002, 06:12 PM   #7
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Re: Check out these results ?!

*HUG* Thanks for replying so quickly, Meep. I need it tonight. I'm so bummed ... I waited a long time to talk to this doctor. <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/frown.gif">
I don't feel too anxious .. more frustrated and ****** off! LOL. I want so badly to get well. I didn't appreciate being dismissed like I was.
Would switching from Thyrolar to Armour make a big difference, in your opinion? My understanding is that they are essentially the same except that Thyrolar is synthetic and Armour is natural. Plus, the Armour contains T2. Would the dosage be the same?
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Old 04-02-2002, 07:01 PM   #8
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Just read Meeps suggestion for Kava. Maybe I am wrong but I do believe Kava was pulled from the shelves in England and here in Canada due to the fact even small amount ingested can cause irreversable liver damage.
I had bought some for my husband who was having difficuly sleeping, and tossed it all in the garbage after the news bulletin i saw on T.V.
I have also posted as NEW on here, that I would post my results from my FNA. Well went to my doctors appointment today....guess what....they're not back yet...what a waste of an appointment.
Will post as soon as I get them.
I will search for bulletin on Kava, and post here if I come across it. Let me know if I am wrong though....thanks.

 
Old 04-03-2002, 09:23 AM   #9
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Re: Check out these results ?!

hi shocked to c rpob with kava im in england and its still on sale here and advertised!!!

 
Old 04-03-2002, 11:36 AM   #10
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Thyrolar and Armour are similar, but not the same. Some people have better luck on one and some have better luck on the other. The only way to know is to try it.

Like Thyrolar, Armour contains measured amounts of T4 and T3. Unlike Thyrolar, Armour contains undisclosed amounts of T2, T1, Calcitonin and other variations of T3 including small amounts of reverse T3.

One grain of Thyrolar contains 50mcg of T4 and 12.5mcg of T3 while one grain of Armour contains 38mcg of T4 and 9mcg of T3. Supposedly, they are equivalent in potency (maybe due to the T2?), but as you can tell with differing amounts of T3 and T4 you might have to tweak your dosage and take a little more Armour than what you are taking of Thyrolar.<p>[This message has been edited by Meep (edited 04-03-2002).]

 
Old 04-04-2002, 06:03 PM   #11
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Thanks, Meep.
That's interesting. Where did you get this info? I'd like to show the doc a chart of the dosing equivalents.
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Old 04-04-2002, 09:14 PM   #12
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Meep is right. Armour is a natural product containing undisclosed amounts of hormons. Sometimes it is difficult to achieve a stable therapeutic level with Armour. That's why Synthroid and its equivalents are now recommended instead of Armour.

 
Old 04-05-2002, 12:51 AM   #13
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Hi bird123,
What Meep actually said is "Armour contains measured amounts of T4 and T3. Unlike Thyrolar, Armour contains undisclosed amounts of T2, T1, Calcitonin and other variations of T3 including small amounts of reverse T3."

Armour is very stable, every bit as stable as the measured synthetics.

Patients should watch out, though, for pharmacies are substituting generic drugs for Armour, and they are not as stable!!! Watch out for what you are buying!

Actually, Synthroid became popular due to inaccurate sales pitches by the makers of Synthroid. You sound like a propronant of the usual protocol, not the latest. If I was DXed as you describe, I would still be ill and hypothyroid.

Savvy doctors are going back to offering Armour with very good results, often better results.

 
Old 04-06-2002, 05:35 PM   #14
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Re: Check out these results ?!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ENUFISENUF:
<B>That's interesting. Where did you get this info? I'd like to show the doc a chart of the dosing equivalents.
ENUF <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/wave.gif"> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have it stored away, mentally because I have read it in mumerous places. Here's a chart that may be helpful to you. It is from a commercial website, so I can't post the link:

Thyrolar: (all in mcg)
1/4 grain = 3.1 T3 + 12.5 T4 = T4 equivalency of 24.9 mcg
1/2 grain = 6.25 T3 + 25 T4 = T4 equivalency of 50 mcg
3/4 grain = 9.375 T3 + 37.5 T4 = T4 equivalency of 75 mcg
1 grain = 12.5 T3 + 50 T4 = T4 equivalency of 100 mcg
1 1/2 grains = 18.75 T3 + 75 T4 = T4 equivalency of 150 mcg
1 3/4 grains = 21.88 T3 + 88 T4 = T4 equivalency of 175.52 mcg
2 grains = 25 T3 + 100 T4 = T4 equivalency of 200 mcg
and so on

Armour: (all in mcg)
1/4 grain = 15mg = 2.25 T3 + 9.5 T4 = T4 equivilency of 18.5 mcg
1/2 grain = 30mg = 4.5 T3 + 19 T4 = T4 equivilency of 37 mcg
3/4 grain = 45mg = 6.75 T3 + 28.5 T4 = T4 equivilency of 55.5 mcg
1 grain = 60mg = 9 T3 + 38 T4 = T4 equivilency of 74 mcg
1 1/2 grains = 90mg = 13.5 T3 + 57 T4 = T4 equivilency of 111 mcg
2 grains = 120mg = 18 T3 = 76 T4 = T4 equivilency of 148 mcg
and so on...<p>[This message has been edited by Meep (edited 04-06-2002).]

 
Old 04-06-2002, 05:47 PM   #15
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Re: Check out these results ?!

Meep, would you cut & paste this table in the Info Archive? It's great info! Even though the source is commercial, I believe the Moderators have said we can refer to commercial and brand names, just not link to them.<p>[This message has been edited by ArtfulD (edited 04-06-2002).]

 
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