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Old 02-02-2012, 07:00 AM   #1
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Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

I started Armour about 4 months ago with much improvement. I am currently taking 75mg. My free T3 is still in the lower normal range and my freeT4 is very high normal range. My reverse T3 is high and not in the normal range. I don't have levels here in front of me to post. I've read that I can add more T3 only (cytomel) in order to raise T3 and lower my RT3. Has anyone tried this and if so did it elimiinate lingering symptoms??

 
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:42 PM   #2
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

It's very odd for a person taking Armour to have a high normal FreeT4 level.

Rather than speculate as to what you might need, it would be much better to see your actual FreeT4 and FreeT3 results (with ranges) since they will let us know just what you need.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #3
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply! I had to get a copy of my lab work again. My FREE T3... 2.8 2.0-4.4
RT3....... 25.0 13.5-34.2
T4 TOTAL.9.7 4.5-12.0
TSH........5.030/ 0.450-4.50

These results are based on 75mg Armour for 6 weeks. After continuous research, I feel at this point, my lab results are indicating a need in more T3. I had tried 90mg Armour and my t4 became too high and RT3 also high. My doctor has told me to add 5mg cytomel to my armour and see if this helps??? What do you think?

 
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:33 AM   #4
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Quote:
Originally Posted by gentle dental View Post
What do you think?
We think you should have freeT4 tested as total T4 is inaccurate . But if adding T4 makes your RT3 high too maybe it would be better to just add T3

Last edited by FinnMaid; 02-18-2012 at 11:33 AM.

 
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #5
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Your FreeT3 level is at the bottom end of the range so, yes, you do need more T3.

However, you cannot rely on that Total T4 test you had. Not only does the test measure usable T4 (FreeT4) but, T4 that is bound to proteins and not usable by the body.

I'm confident your FreeT4 level would be proportionately lower in the range than your Total T4 level.

So, not only do you need T3 but, T4 as well.

An Armour dose increase would help accomplish this.

RT3 can increase if the FreeT3 level is still too low for the body's needs so, there's a good chance you will eventually need a higher Armour dose than 90mg.

I've read that the most common Armour doses are 120-150mg.

It makes sense to focus on the actual thyroid hormone levels - FreeT4 and FreeT3 than a calculation such as rT3.

While I understand the concepts behind rT3, my doctor has never checked this. She has always focused on my FreeT4 and FreeT3. And, based upon my research, this is what should be done.

I have been symptom-free since my levels were optimized. For me, this means both levels near the high end of the range.

Most people need their levels around 60-80% of range. I suggest you try for similar.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:20 AM   #6
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Thank you so much for all your info! I will have them check the free t4 before I do anything else! I will then go from there. Just sick and tired of not being 100%!!

 
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:40 AM   #7
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Ok.... I had blood drawn to check my free t4.
Free T4.... 0.75 Range 0.78-2.19
I also had them check the TSH again and it was showing 3.56 (.465-4.68)

I agree with sammy64 that I may just need to increase my armour to 90 instead of adding Cytomel. Do you still agree sammy64? If I add more t3 which is in my armour, wil that not suppress my free t4?? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, it just seems you have great answers!

How long should I wait on my new dose of Armour before testing again?

Thank you so much for answering my questions!!

 
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:19 PM   #8
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Anybody?? Please..... just looking for someone with knowledge and experience with this!!

 
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #9
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Armour doesn't necessarily suppress your FreeT4 level. It's just because the porcine thyroid used to make Armour has a higher proportion of T3 than T4 compared to human thyroid that your FreeT4 level is proportionately lower than your FreeT3 level.

So, if you were ever to add a med to Armour, it would be a T4 med (such as Synthroid/levothyroxine), not a T3 med such as Cytomel.

Most people are perfectly fine with the disproportionately higher FreeT3 level that taking Armour means but, they still usually need a FreeT4 level that's in-range.

Since your FreeT4 level is below-range (and your FreeT3 level needs help as well), it makes sense to increase your Armour since it contains both T4 and T3.....and know that you could very well need another dose increase after you get labs 6 wks. after this increase.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:46 AM   #10
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Hello everyone! I have been on 90mg of Armour for 6 weeks and had my levels checked again on Monday. I have done pretty well on this dose, however, I still don't feel great. I have started having some mild hyper symptoms again which I seem to get when my Reverse t3 is high, which it is this time. I've noticed I am getting more irritable, unable to handle little every day stressors. I am so sick of not feeling well!! Some symptoms were better on the 75mg armour and some are better on the 90mg.(of course, some are worse on each as well)
My new levels are as follows......

RT3....... 42.3 13.5- 42.3
Free T3...2.8 2.0- 4.4 (which is exactly the same as last time????)
Free T4...0.87 (0.82-1.77 that level did go up a little from 0.75)

My TPO level was high at 346 (0-34 is normal)
However, I know that it is high when you have hashimotos, and that is what we are assuming I have.

Now, why is my T3 level stuck?? Why am I converting to RT3 instead of good T3??(screaming out loud) lol

Please, any response would be appreciated!!

 
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:15 AM   #11
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Both your FT4 and FT3 are "stuck". That and your continung symptoms are clear indications that you haven't reached your optimal dose of Armour. You need more of it. Ninety mgs is a small-ish dose; you have a lot of room to increase it.
IMO, the reverse T3 doesn't matter all that much. You simply don't have enough free hormone floating around yet.

Just out of curiosity, what was your latest TSH? TSH will be suppressed to near zero when the Armour dose is optimal.
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #12
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

Sorry, forgot to put TSH.
TSH.... 1.450 That has improved since last time. Should I try to treat adrenals first before adding more Armour? Thanks for your reply!

 
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:27 PM   #13
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

TSH may be lower than last time, but it's nowhere near optimal. It will almost certainly be suppressed far below lab range when your free Ts get to where they should be for you.

I don't know much about adrenals; but as long as you're tolerating your Armour well, I don't see the need for treating them.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:46 AM   #14
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

I am worried to raise Armour again for fear of increasing my hyper feelings due to the reverse t3. I agree that I will need an armour increase, but should I not take care of the conversion problem first? If you notice, my t3 did not increase with my last armour increase. I instead converted to reverse t3. I've had iron levels checked and they were all good. Should I ask about adding a small dose of cytomel to try and flush out the reverse t3? Thought that might be and idea. Thanks for your suggestions!

 
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #15
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Re: Can I add a little cytomel to my Armour??

gentle dental

This whole "flushing out" T3 concept got started by a doctor back in the late '70's.....his theories have never been proven. Dr. Alan Christensen writes about this in his book "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Thyroid Disease".

A high rT3 simply means that the FreeT3 level is too low for the body's needs.

It's not uncommon to have a worsening of symptoms/development of new ones during the meds titration process.

I'm not sure if you're taking your Armour all in one dose....most people are fine with this.

Those who aren't divide the dose into AM/PM doses.
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