Anyone with hypothyroidism an early/ premature ovulator, especially women with Low T3? My doctor thinks the two could be connected for me.
Just started 30 mg NP thyroid today. Hoping to see some cycle improvements and increase in progesterone.
Would love to hear if anyone else had cycle improvements after starting thyroid meds. Thanks!
Also, I found an interesting study that *sounds* like hypothyroidism could cause artificially high levels of estradiol/ estrogen, which theoretically could cause luteinising hormone to spike prematurely (my own deducation ;-/). If anyone understands what I am talking about, please see this rat study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20149258
My test results
FT4 0.9 (0.9-1.8)
T3 (total) 86.9 (60-180)
Yes, I can attest to the early ovulation. On 50 mcg, I was starting to ovulate around CD7 or CD8. That is too early. I was on 50 mcg for a long time. 6 weeks ago, I went to 62.5 and doc found a 22mm cyst on right ovary with E2 at 311! My labs on 62.5 didn't move that much and my TSH went from 2.8 to 2.4. My FT3 didn't budge too much (2.5) and neither did my FT4 (1.57). I can't really speak about 62.5 b/c doc put me on Clomid and I had 3 LH surges on OPK on 3 different weeks. So not sure what was going on there. He told me that high FSH will cause high LH surges (or false surges).
Currently on 75 mcg and I think I ovulated around CD19 which is really odd for me. Not sure if it's due to the Clomid last month or Synthroid. Will keep you posted.
The Following User Says Thank You to librarygirl2 For This Useful Post: bee01 (04-28-2012)
Hi Library girl- do you have very high FSH? Did you measure it before starting clomid? Just so you know, clomid falsely elevates FSH. Mine went from 5 to 7-8, 3 years ago, while I was on clomid and then came down again a couple of months later.
I know you are probably in a hurry but I strongly urge you to get your thyroid levels optimised before continuing with fertility treatments. I am sure you know that even slightly elevated TSH (above 2.5) had a two fold risk of miscarriage. Not sure if this applies if you are negative for thyroid antibodies (are you?). And then you would have to get your levels checked as soon as you fall pregnant to see if you need a dose increase or decrease (depending on the cause of hypoT).
The other thing that confuses me is that, when I was pregnant with my son, I did not feel hypothyroid, possibly due to good progesterone levels? I did get REALLY fat though, some weeks gaining 11 lbs and my doctors could not/ would not figure out why. Overall, I gained 50% of my body weight at 70 lbs! So, now of course, I worry that I have somehow caused damage to my child (though, he is very smart, so I am sure I am anxious for nothing).
Oh ok, I am jumping around but anyway. I also ovulated on cycle day 8 this cycle, when my usual ovulation happens between day 12-13, sometimes day 11. I have had the ugliest erratic BBT charts ever since starting synthroid and I honestly did feel worse, glad I know why now! Were you ovulating before taking thyroid med? Was it also early? I don't usually ovulate super early but I think it may be a day or two too soon, before the follicle is fully mature. It was happening that way with fertility meds too. I would always get the LH surge before I could use the hcg shot. I eventually got pregnant with gonal F, IUI, ganirelix, HCG and crinone (progesterone). The ganirelix stopped the premature LH surge and kept levels nice and low until I could use the hcg shot. I think this made the difference- might be something to ask about if your LH is too high (which can also be caused by PCOS, by the way, though they don't *think* I have that)
It's so nice to be able to commiserate with someone else going through the same thing. I mean, sorry you are going through this too but glad we found each other ;-)
My FSH was high before the Clomid. I need to get treated by an RE instead of an OB/GYN that likes to pretend that he is an RE :-)
I know what you mean about the Synthroid. You're going to feel like crap initially and I think it is the body's way of adjusting until you get on to a higher dose. For the past 6 years, tried all types of thyroid med combos it is unbelievable that my body never healed well. My FT3 is very low and my FT4 is easily in the upper 25% quartile. Moving up to 62.5 mcg and then to 75 mcg is quite interesting as there are days when I think I may be going hyper and then the next week I feel hypo. Usually my body knows by the 5th or 6th week mark. When I up the dosage it feels like how I felt the first time I touched Synthroid 6 years ago, TIRED and Puffy! I am finishing my 1st week on 75 mcg and my brain is starting to wake up and I no longer feel I have to go take a nap.
I know that when I was getting more hypo, my ovulation would be around CD8 or so. Used to be around CD13. What were your BBTs after O? Mine never get to more than 97.6 and I wonder if I have a progesterone issue.
It's great you have a child. I read that once you have one it is easier to have another but on the other hand I know of a lot of women having issues with having a second. Not sure if it has to do with breastfeeding (high prolactin levels) or something else but I sure hope you get your bfp soon.
The following user gives a hug of support to librarygirl2: bee01 (04-29-2012)
The Following User Says Thank You to librarygirl2 For This Useful Post: bee01 (04-29-2012)
Hi Librarygirl- it is interesting that some days you feel hyper and others hypo. I definitely feel that there are times in my cycle where I am more lethargic than others, and that is around the time of high estrogen, starting at around day 7 until just before ovulation. These past two months that I have been on thyroid med, I have actually felt really well during my period, possibly because estrogen levels are at their lowest at that time.
Have you been keeping a BBT chart? I find it's an excellent tool for analysing your cycle. Typically, my lowest temps in the follicular cycle are around 97.1 and they go up to 98.4 in the luteal phase. My progesterone levels went up tremendously after I started taking B Complex 50 mg. Before taking B Complex, my mid luteal progesterone was 8-9 ng/ml. The month after I started Vit B, it shot up to 15 ng/ml and the month after that it was 20 ng/ml. I'm not sure if they are still this good (well, normal, at best). At the time, I had 26 day cycles with 13 day LP. However, recently, I have had day 10 and day 8 ovulations, still with 13 day LP. I feel like there's something I'm missing though. My post ovulatory temperatures are very erratic and I still feel as though there is a luteal phase defect, despite the decent LP and progesterone levels.
BTW, I had my progesterone levels checked many times on natural cycles and they were always low, always around 8 or 9 ng/ml, not enough to sustain a pregnancy, and I think I had a 12 day LP at the time.
If your FSH is high, I would not even waste your time with clomid. From what I remember, low responders do much better on injectable FSH (sorry, low responders is an awful word and I have no reason to believe you are a "low responder"). And for reasons unknown, IUI has better pregnancy outcomes, even when there is no male factor infertility. I was a little freaked out by resorting to IUI but my first well-timed IUI was the successful one). I supplemented with progesterone (crinone suppository). I just didn't want to risk progesterone levels being an issue. I mentioned before that the month I conceived my son, I asked to have a medication called Ganirelix added to my protocol, which I really think made the difference. It stopped the LH from surging prematurely. I wanted to make sure I had at least one 20 mm follicle on ovulation day (I had two over 18 mm on trigger day, so they would have been 20 mm by then)
Interestingly, I had my TSH checked between stim cycles and it was the only time it measured "normal" at 1.25. It makes me wonder if adding that progesterone had a stimulatory effect on my thyroid. I wouldn't hesitate to use progesterone though. Your luteal temp does sound low, even when you take cold room temperatures into account. I would ask for a 7 dpo progesterone level (first thing in the morning and before eating is supposed to be when you catch it at its lowest-- hmm, now I am starting to wonder if that's true). My thyroid doc provided me with a saliva kit to measure estrogen and progesterone levels throughout the upcoming cycle- might be something worth asking about.
Oh, I remembered another thing I disliked about clomid. It thins the uterine lining- I'm sure you already know that- by suppressing estrogen levels. It also creates hostile cervical mucous (pleasant picture), further necessitating the need for an IUI. Robitussin or pre-seed could circumvent that. Of course, clomid is also 1/1000 the price of Gonal F. Okay, I kid, 1/400th the price.
you might be interested to know that I've read that progesterone does indeed stimulate the production of thyroid hormone - this information came from a reliable source on my first-ever thyroid forum.
I suspect you know this but, there's something with estrogens (SHBG?) that causes them to have an effect on thyroid hormone levels - as in lowering them. That would explain why we feel differently during different times of our cycles - especially when thyroid hormone levels haven't been optimized.
I went off the NuvaRing in late November since I'm no longer ovulating (I'm at "that age") and the evolution of my thyroid levels has been interesting - I've needed a small decrease in my T4 dose and my T3 dose was halved.
((hugs)) while trying to juggle these two conditions you're dealing with...especially the waiting.
Sammy- INTERESTING about SHBG. My level is actually pretty high on the range. I didn't think that it was so bad because it binds testosterone (I'm hairy 'nuff) but it also binds thyroid hormone? Am I understanding that correctly? I wondered if testing thyroglobulin levels was worth it, since estrogen can raise that, right? In the end, I suppose the treatment will be the same, more thyroid.
I read in one of my thyroid books, can't remember which one now, that progesterone aids in the production of the thyroperoxidase (TPO) enzyme, from which T4 is produced, and that it is progesterone's stimulatory effect on the thyroid that causes the temperature shift after ovulation. I thought this was sort of fascinating.
Yep, SHBG binds thyroid hormone (sigh). At least you're early in the thyroid game so, your dose needs will be your dose needs. Obviously, that might change with a change in your levels of SHBG.
I don't know anything about estrogen and thyroglobulin, sorry. I'd be interested to know what you discover.
I really don't know much about other hormones, etc. The few things I do know I've picked up along the way as a result of research after reading something mentioned on a thyroid forum.
I find all aspects related to thyroid function to be quite fascinating. Before I developed thyroid disease, I never realized the far-reaching effects of the various hormones involved in the endocrine system. Thanks for sharing what you read about progesterone - very interesting.
Hi, Bee01! I need to keep an eye on my lethargy with respect to my cycle days. It makes sense that we could be more tired during the follicular phase due to estrogen cancelling out the thyroid hormones. The more estrogen the more you need thyroid hormones.
I do chart but I think it is driving me crazy b/c it never goes higher than 97.5 or 97.6. I have taken a B Complex and I feel really good on them. I think it helps to decrease your bodies' stress reactions or so. I never got to test my progesterone. No doctor tested them for the past 2 years since TTC.
You might want to look into supplementing progesterone for every LP cycle
No worries about the "low responder" terminology. I am not a young chick so high FSHers do not need clomid. Injectibles are the way to go but you are so right b/c they are so expensive. Did you find that your temps are higher after taking crinone? Dr. John R. Lee's book (doc that was a major proponent of progesterone) mentioned that "estrogen inhibits thyroid activity and thus, exacerbates thyroid deficiency. In contrast, progesterone, cortisol, and testosterone are thyroid allies...Persistent estrogen dominance creates a cycle of lowered thyroid function, decreased SHBG, and further increases in the bioavailable levels of estrogen...Progesterone therapy often restores normal thyroid activity, perhaps by its antiestrogenic actions." This is from his book, "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause". I bought this book not b/c I am going through it but b/c of the extensive detail he gets into about tons of hormones.
If you ever heard about NPC shutdown, that comes from him. In the book, he also has a section about Progesterone and Thyroid Hormone. He mentions how he was impressed that there were a greater number of women taking thyroid than men. He found that it may be because of estrogen dominance. When he attempted to correct their estrogen dominance by adding progesterone, it was common to see their need for thyroid supplements decreased and could often be eliminated. That was how he became aware that estrogen, progesterone, and thyroid were all interrelated. While thyroid supplement had been prescribed to his clients by other docs, it only improved their tiredness a bit and not corrected the symptoms he had learned to associate with estrogen dominance such as fat and water retention, headaches, etc. Only when progesterone treatment was introduced did their symptoms decrease or disappear but also their presumed hypothyroidism.
Last edited by Administrator; 04-30-2012 at 01:51 PM.
Wow, this is all interesting about hormones. I don't know anything about thyroglobulins and estrogen but us women can be big hormonal messes . Progesterone gets to be a big deal as we get more estrogen dominance. I not only have these hormone issues we just discussed but also androgen issues to top it off.
Last edited by Administrator; 04-30-2012 at 01:52 PM.
Hi- I wanted to give some life to this thread again. I feel that, after the last 2 months, there definitely appears to be a relationship between low thyroid hormones and early ovulation (for me, anyway). When I took 25 mcg synthroid for 6 weeks, I had two full cycles in that time, both around 21 days long, with early ovulation (3 days earlier than usual) and very short LP's of 11 days. I discovered, through bloodwork, that I had become MORE hypothyroid during that time, my T3 dropped from 90 to 70 (lab range 60-180) and my TSH increased to 3.3, up from 2.3 six weeks before. I did not have my FT3 checked but since it was only 2 (1.8-4.2) when my T3 was 90, I imagine it must have been below lab range when T3 dropped 20 points. Obviously, I am not implying that synthroid made me hypothyroid, as it was likely being on a starting dose that suppressed my thyroid hormones.
During that time, I noticed signs (spare you the details) of estrogen peaking early. This seems to confirm my theory than hypothyroidism falsely elevates estradiol levels (actually, I think this is accepted fact), causing a premature surge in LH, which triggers early ovulation of a premature egg (can't find this in any literature but may run it by my RE, if I ever return to her).
The Following User Says Thank You to bee01 For This Useful Post: early OVer (11-27-2012)