Anyone know if thyroid levels generally fluctuate that heavily within a month when a person is not currently on thyroid meds of any kind?
* Quick question about my glucose... both tests in September and October required a 12 hour fast. My glucose was at the top of the range both times (a bit higher though in September). Do thyroid issues contribute to high glucose?
9/20/12
Glucose --------- 97 ----- [65-99] ----- (94% of range)
10/24/12
Glucose --------- 94 ----- [65-99] ----- (85% of range)
This is my post from yesterday, I am just pasting it here for quicker access:
Hey everyone!
Today I received my new lab results and this time my RT3 has lowered quite a bit. My Free T's have reduced as well. My doctor is not concerned by my levels so she does not plan to continue investigating my thyroid for the time being. My symptoms still persist (although my anxiety has disappeared in the last 2 weeks and I am cold more often than hot now which is a nice change) my fatigue has increased in the last few weeks though.
9/20/12
Free T4 ------ 1.61 --------- [0.82-1.77] ----- (83% of range)
Free T3 ------ 3.8 ---------- [2.0-4.4] ------- (75% of range)
Reverse T3 --- 40.2 H ------- [13.5-34.2] ---- (129% of range)
TSH ---------- 0.671 ------- [0.450-4.500] --- (5% of range)
TPO ---------- 15 ---------- [0-34] ---------- (44% of range)
TgAb --------- <20 -------- [0-40]
10/24/12
Free T4 ------ 1.1 ------- [0.8-1.8] ----- (30% of range)
Free T3 ------ 3.3 ------- [2.3-4.2] ----- (53% of range)
Reverse T3 --- 19 ------- [7-24] -------- (71% of range)
Total T3 ----- 91 -------- [76-181] ----- (14% of range)
She did not run my TSH this time so I have no clue what it is. Do these results (10/24/12) look all right? I did not have Total T3 done the first time but my doctor wanted to check it the second time around so this is my first lab result for the Total T3. Also, is it normal for thyroid values to fluctuate like this within a month? I realize the values are not significantly different, but I had expected my new results to mimic the readings I had in September (with a hopefully lowered RT3).
The rest of my labs were good, and the only flags I had were low Vitamin D, low progesterone, and low iron binding capacity.
In September my iron serum levels were through the roof, and this time they have lowered but I am curious if the TIBC result I have means anything? I realize this is the thyroid board so if nobody knows that it fine just thought I would throw it in here.
10/24/12
Iron, Total ------------- 122 -- [40-175] --- (38% of range)
Iron Binding Capacity --- 245 -- [250-450] -- ( -2.5% of range)
% Saturation ----------- 50 --- [15-50%] -- (100% of range)
Folate, Serum ---------- 6.5 --- [>5.4]
9/20/12
Ferritin ---------------- 65 ---- [13-150] --- (38% of range)
Transferrin ------------ 237 --- [200-370] -- (22% of range)
*** My doctor said my B levels were good, but I would like to raise that number up. Is this something I should speak with my doctor about first, or can I just start supplementing at home?
Last edited by frisson; 11-03-2012 at 09:54 AM.
Reason: Copied original post I am referring to for quicker access, also included additional question about glucose levels.
So I don't know if it matters but as far as symptoms since my last test go I have lost more hair in the last month, my muscles have felt like I work out 6 hours a day with heavy weights everyday (almost a bruised feeling), my knee has been in severe pain and I never have knee problems, last night I had weird surges of adrenaline from 11:45p - 3:00a (with fast heart rate, and a numb feeling in my hands and toes), my skin is severely dry and the rash on my right hand is worse, I also started getting dandruff (which I never had before), and one more thing my nails have become even more brittle as they separate from the nail bed but they are also very very thick (weird I know).
Anyone know if thyroid levels generally fluctuate that heavily within a month when a person is not currently on thyroid meds of any kind? Do thyroid issues contribute to high glucose?
No I don't think it's normal for thyroid levels to fluctuate like this within a month but sometimes it does happen. Your FT4 is a bit on the low side at the moment and considering your new symptoms it is quite possible you're now shifting towards hypoT, I think you situation calls for further monitoring. Thyroid levels can affect your glucose levels, not sure what the typical scenario would be (and I believe with diabetes one cannot always tell which of them affects the other).
The Following User Says Thank You to FinnMaid For This Useful Post: frisson (11-05-2012)
Ever seen "Hashi's" mentioned here? You can find much info on it. Some salient points are these: Hashimoto's thyroiditis is the most common cause of hypothyroidism in the United States; is a condition caused by inflammation of the thyroid gland; tends to occur in families; is 5-10 times more common in women than in men; blood drawn from patients with Hashimoto's throiditis reveals an increased number of thyroid peroxidase antibodies, the antibodies cause inflammation in the thyroid gland, the thyroid gland is destroyed, and the patient ultimately is rendered hypothyroid. There are a few patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis who may undergo a hyperthyroid phase (too much thyroid hormone), called hashitoxicosis, before eventually becoming hypothyroid.
"Hashimoto's typically involves a slow but steady destruction of the gland that eventually results in the thyroid's inability to produce sufficient thyroid hormone -- the condition known as hypothyroidism. Along the way, however, there can be periods where the thyroid sputters back to life, even causing temporary hyperthyroidism, then a return to hypothyroidism. This cycling back and forth between hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism is characteristic of Hashimoto's disease. So, for example, periods of anxiety/insomnia/diarrhea/weight loss may be followed by periods of depression/fatigue/constipation/weight gain." This quote is taken from "Hashimoto's vs. Hypothyroidism: What's the Difference? A Look at Autoimmune Thyroid Disease and Underactive Thyroid Conditions" By Mary Shomon,
So going back over your posts you have: (1) both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid symptoms: "my symptoms are very similar to both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid, I am not sure if it is possible to switch between hyper and hypo but the way my symptoms come and go throughout the day I feel like it is happening." (2) your weight loss is a good sign of hyper. (3) "adrenal gland test and I was borderline for adrenal insufficiency" - adrenal gland and thyroid work hand-in hand, if thyroid is out of whack chances are so will your adrenals, (4) "My entire family (the females) have thyroid issues", (5) "I am cold more often than hot now" - are clear symptoms of hypo and hyper respectively. DO YOU CATCH MY DRIFT??
Now turning to lab tests. The reference ranges DO NOT define normal. I consider the median value (50th percentile) to be "normal", rather than the reference ranges which are the 2.5% and 97.5% percentiles. I have found median values by searching the net. (look up 'median' and 'normal curve' if you do not understand this).
OK, what do your lab tests say?
September 20, 2012
Free T4: 1.61 versus median 1.04 ==== 55% above normal
Free T3: 3.8 versus median 2.88 == === 32% above normal
Reverse T3: 40.2 versus median 21 === 91% above normal - nearly 2 times normal.
TSH: 0.671 versus median 1.41 ====== below normal
These result very clearly indicate hyperthyroid and are in agreement with your hypo symptoms of losing weight and intolerance to heat.
antithyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOab)
TPO: 15 versus median 10.4 for females age 20-29 == 44% above normal (see notes above re Hashi's)
October 24, 2012
Free T4 ------ 1.1 ------- versus median 1.04 ==== very slightly above normal
Free T3 ------ 3.3 ------- versus median 2.88 == === 14% above normal
Reverse T3 --- 19 ------- versus median 21 === probably normal for you
October results are quite normal; you should keep those values for future reference.
So the September results are hyperthyroid, which is certainly not normal, and it is certainly not normal to go from hyper to normal in the period of one month. The October blood tests could have caught you in a period in-between hyper and hypo. The intolerance to cold and rapid heart beat that you are now experiencing (which could be atrial fibrillation or suprvaventicular tachycardia) are symptoms of hypothyroidism.
Frisson - I would say that your symptoms and thyroid tests very clearly indicate thyroid dysfunction of some sort, possibly Hashi's. Obviously we are not doctors here and can not diagnose you. But I am very surprised that your doctor has not said the words "thyroid disease" and that she would say she "is not concerned by my levels so she does not plan to continue investigating my thyroid for the time being."
You MUST get your doctor to recognise that you have a thyroid problem, or go to a new doctor or get a referral to an endocrinologist. You could perhaps talk to other family members to find who is the best doctor they have found for thyroid problems. You MUST also continue to monitor your thyroid levels.
When you have your thyroid resolved, then you can see what else you have left to deal with.
Ultimately you may end up taking thyroid replacement medication, be sure to come back for advice then. Good luck...
The Following User Says Thank You to telus For This Useful Post: frisson (11-05-2012)
My doctor said my B levels were good, but I would like to raise that number up. Is this something I should speak with my doctor about first, or can I just start supplementing at home?
your B12 is at quite a good place indeed. That as you wish, I think it's always good to discuss things with your doctor. As such it can be bought freely (so no prescription needed), preferabe sublingual tablets don't go overboard with it though since your levels are good, the ones of 1000 seem more then enough.
Your iron/ferritin is at good place too but your vit D is not (as you probably noticed yourself) did you doctor suggest supplementation? I think you should, preferably vit D3 and those need to be taken in high dosage to bring levels up.
The Following User Says Thank You to lisa789 For This Useful Post: frisson (11-05-2012)
Ever seen "Hashi's" mentioned here? You can find much info on it. Some salient points are these: Hashimoto's thyroiditis is the most common cause of hypothyroidism in the United States; is a condition caused by inflammation of the thyroid gland; tends to occur in families; is 5-10 times more common in women than in men; blood drawn from patients with Hashimoto's throiditis reveals an increased number of thyroid peroxidase antibodies, the antibodies cause inflammation in the thyroid gland, the thyroid gland is destroyed, and the patient ultimately is rendered hypothyroid. There are a few patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis who may undergo a hyperthyroid phase (too much thyroid hormone), called hashitoxicosis, before eventually becoming hypothyroid.
"Hashimoto's typically involves a slow but steady destruction of the gland that eventually results in the thyroid's inability to produce sufficient thyroid hormone -- the condition known as hypothyroidism. Along the way, however, there can be periods where the thyroid sputters back to life, even causing temporary hyperthyroidism, then a return to hypothyroidism. This cycling back and forth between hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism is characteristic of Hashimoto's disease. So, for example, periods of anxiety/insomnia/diarrhea/weight loss may be followed by periods of depression/fatigue/constipation/weight gain." This quote is taken from "Hashimoto's vs. Hypothyroidism: What's the Difference? A Look at Autoimmune Thyroid Disease and Underactive Thyroid Conditions" By Mary Shomon,
So going back over your posts you have: (1) both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid symptoms: "my symptoms are very similar to both hypothyroid and hyperthyroid, I am not sure if it is possible to switch between hyper and hypo but the way my symptoms come and go throughout the day I feel like it is happening." (2) your weight loss is a good sign of hyper. (3) "adrenal gland test and I was borderline for adrenal insufficiency" - adrenal gland and thyroid work hand-in hand, if thyroid is out of whack chances are so will your adrenals, (4) "My entire family (the females) have thyroid issues", (5) "I am cold more often than hot now" - are clear symptoms of hypo and hyper respectively. DO YOU CATCH MY DRIFT??
Now turning to lab tests. The reference ranges DO NOT define normal. I consider the median value (50th percentile) to be "normal", rather than the reference ranges which are the 2.5% and 97.5% percentiles. I have found median values by searching the net. (look up 'median' and 'normal curve' if you do not understand this).
OK, what do your lab tests say?
September 20, 2012
Free T4: 1.61 versus median 1.04 ==== 55% above normal
Free T3: 3.8 versus median 2.88 == === 32% above normal
Reverse T3: 40.2 versus median 21 === 91% above normal - nearly 2 times normal.
TSH: 0.671 versus median 1.41 ====== below normal
These result very clearly indicate hyperthyroid and are in agreement with your hypo symptoms of losing weight and intolerance to heat.
antithyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOab)
TPO: 15 versus median 10.4 for females age 20-29 == 44% above normal (see notes above re Hashi's)
October 24, 2012
Free T4 ------ 1.1 ------- versus median 1.04 ==== very slightly above normal
Free T3 ------ 3.3 ------- versus median 2.88 == === 14% above normal
Reverse T3 --- 19 ------- versus median 21 === probably normal for you
October results are quite normal; you should keep those values for future reference.
So the September results are hyperthyroid, which is certainly not normal, and it is certainly not normal to go from hyper to normal in the period of one month. The October blood tests could have caught you in a period in-between hyper and hypo. The intolerance to cold and rapid heart beat that you are now experiencing (which could be atrial fibrillation or suprvaventicular tachycardia) are symptoms of hypothyroidism.
Frisson - I would say that your symptoms and thyroid tests very clearly indicate thyroid dysfunction of some sort, possibly Hashi's. Obviously we are not doctors here and can not diagnose you. But I am very surprised that your doctor has not said the words "thyroid disease" and that she would say she "is not concerned by my levels so she does not plan to continue investigating my thyroid for the time being."
You MUST get your doctor to recognise that you have a thyroid problem, or go to a new doctor or get a referral to an endocrinologist. You could perhaps talk to other family members to find who is the best doctor they have found for thyroid problems. You MUST also continue to monitor your thyroid levels.
When you have your thyroid resolved, then you can see what else you have left to deal with.
Ultimately you may end up taking thyroid replacement medication, be sure to come back for advice then. Good luck...
I have read a little about Hashi's but I assumed since my antibodies were at 15 and not above range that I did not meet the criteria for Hashi's. From what I have read everyone can have the hashi's antibodies, but only the people who have antibodies above range actually have hashi's. If my understanding is incorrect please feel free to correct me. My doctor is a great woman but she is not specially trained to deal with thyroids or adrenal glands, so as much as I really like her I just don't think she will be able to help me. I can't afford to see an endo until the first of the year when my insurance starts over though so I guess I will just have to deal with it until then. I wish I had waited to get my lab work done a week or two later than I did because the last few days my hyper symptoms have been coming back full force (specifically the late night rushes--anxiety--rapid heart rate--chest pain--insomnia).
I bet if my labs had come back showing the same readings that I had in September she would have referred me immediately to an endo, then I wouldn't have to waste my last appointment of the year trying to convince her to refer me to one.
If I had tested today I have a feeling they would have matched my September labs (based on how I felt than compared to how I feel today).
Thank you for all of the information it is greatly appreciated. I will bring my concerns to my next appointment and request a referral, which she hopefully will give to me.
My doctor said my B levels were good, but I would like to raise that number up. Is this something I should speak with my doctor about first, or can I just start supplementing at home?
your B12 is at quite a good place indeed. That as you wish, I think it's always good to discuss things with your doctor. As such it can be bought freely (so no prescription needed), preferabe sublingual tablets don't go overboard with it though since your levels are good, the ones of 1000 seem more then enough.
Your iron/ferritin is at good place too but your vit D is not (as you probably noticed yourself) did you doctor suggest supplementation? I think you should, preferably vit D3 and those need to be taken in high dosage to bring levels up.
My doctor has instructed me to take 5000 IU D3 daily which I have already started taking, and I did start taking some timed release B12 but I can't remember how much.. it might have been 1000. I might just take the B12 every other day until I see her to see if it makes any difference in my energy levels.
